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>> Today is Tuesday,

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March 22nd, 2022.

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This is Helen Thomas,

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Outreach Archivist
for the Department

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of Museums Archives
and Rare Books.

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And today, I'm interviewing
Jessica Duvall.

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Jessica was a student
at KSU before becoming

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the first full-time
program coordinator

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for GLBTIQ Student
Retention Services,

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which is now the LGBTQ
Resource Center.

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She now serves as KSU's
Assistant Director of

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strategic planning
assessment and analysis

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and is also a part-time
instructor of American Studies.

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Thank you so much for
sitting down with us today.

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>> Absolutely.

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>> So, let's start with

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a little bit about
your early life.

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When and where were you born?

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>> Misawa, Japan. So I come
from a military background.

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My dad was in the Air Force,

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so that's where they were
stationed at the time.

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And then I was there
till about four.

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And then we came stateside
for a little while in

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Maryland and then
went back to Germany,

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ironically for the Department of

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Defense because of Burger King.

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My mom's second husband,

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he was a manager for

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the Burger King on AAFES on
the military installation.

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So we got transferred
to Wurzburg,

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Germany, and I was
there for a few years,

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then came to California,

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bounced around northern
California quite a bit,

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Marysville, Roseville,
Vacaville, Fairfield, Dixon.

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And then in between there
did a stint in Italy

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in Alibiano and then came back,

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I was there for about
maybe just a little bit.

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My dad was stationed in Alibiano

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and then came back to Arizona.

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Was in Arizona for a little bit,

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and then came here to Georgia.

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So I came to Georgia,
it was in high school.

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I think at December

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of my sophomore year, is
when we moved to Georgia.

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>> And where in Georgia did
you move to at that point?

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>> Well, it was the
long-term stay hotel

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over by Cumberland Mall.

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I was there for a little while
before we found a house,

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but then we moved out
to Dallas, Georgia.

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And I went to
Harrison High School

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for my last year and a
half of high school.

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>> And what was Carl
Harrison High School like?

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>> Very different than
anything I had experienced.

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Not having been from Georgia,

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I think I had a lot
of adjusting to do to

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learn what Georgia was

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versus what I had been
taught Georgia was.

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I had a very specific and
very narrow perspective

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of what it meant to
be living in Georgia.

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And so, there

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was a lot of differences
that I experienced.

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I think one of the things that

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struck out to me
the most was, A,

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pulling up to Harrison
and seeing students

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with BMWs and Mercedes
in the parking lot.

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I'm like, that's not

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something I had ever
experienced before.

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So there's a big
class difference

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coming out from having
lived with my mom and

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live with my mom's family to
then moving in living with

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my dad and moving out to

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a more of an affluent area,
Harrison High School.

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So that was a big culture shock.

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Also, I had never
lived in a place

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where it was very
predominantly White.

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Overwhelmingly so it was

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very visibly and very startling,

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and so that was
something that was

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a new experience for
me to where there was

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just an extreme lack of
diversity in the space.

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And so that was something
that was a hard adjustment

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for me coming out to Georgia.

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But I think college is
really where I learned to

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love where I am and I've not

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stayed and really have
no desire to leave.

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But that was a big
shock for me because

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adjusting from what my
preconceived notions were,

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and then some of the
differences that I

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wasn't anticipating
to experience,

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and then learning to find my
own place inside of that.

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I had a little bit
of background.

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My grandpa had been stationed in

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Mississippi for a little while.

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My grandpa was a chief
in the Air Force,

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and so he ran a base
in Mississippi.

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And so my mom had given
me a little bit of

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heads-up of what it meant

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to move to the south and

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some differences that
I would experience.

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But until I did it for myself,

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I didn't really quite
understand what that was,

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and so I had a lot
of adjusting to do.

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>> So what year would that have

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been that you went to Georgia?

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>> I think, 2003,
somewhere in there.

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>> So what activities

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were you involved
with in high school?

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>> So I was not what one
would call a model student.

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I had great grades. I just

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didn't feel it was
important to go to school.

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I felt that was my
rebellion stage.

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I had a lot of rebellion
in me as a young child.

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So in school activities,

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going to school was an activity,

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and deciding to go to school
that day was an activity.

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Outside of that,

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I tried to play soccer here,

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but I quickly learned that

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that was running while drowning.

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With the humidity,

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my body just could not
acclimate to that.

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So soccer, I had
played that since

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I was a small child,
started playing in Germany,

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but gave up soccer because I

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just could not acclimate
to the humidity.

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I may have now and it's fine.

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And photography, I had a

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little dark room
in the basement,

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so I did a lot of photography,

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and that's where a
lot of lonesome self

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was hanging out and
doing art and stuff.

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But I wasn't really
an engaged students.

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[LAUGHTER]

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>> So can you say a little
bit about your parents,

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who they were, what they did?

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>> So my dad

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was a chief master
sergeant in the Air Force.

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I didn't live with my
dad until high school.

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So that was something
that was new for me.

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I think, it was a high school.

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I think we moved over in

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seventh grade,
something like that.

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So I didn't live with my
father until very older

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and we never really lived
on the same continent,

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because we were always just

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stationed in different places.

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My mom, right now,

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she owns a yarn company,

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so she makes hand-dyed
yarn, which is really cool.

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I'm really proud of her,
the entrepreneur there.

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And she was born in Maryland,

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military family too, so
she bounced around a lot.

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So she was moved around a
bunch of different places.

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>> So what made you decide
to come to KSU for college?

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>> The honest answer?

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>> Sure.

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>> I followed a
girl. [LAUGHTER] So

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girl I had been dating
in high school,

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she came to KSU, and

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I graduated high school
a semester early,

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beginning high school was
not where I wanted to be.

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And so I had graduated
a semester early,

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and she had done dual
enrollment at KSU.

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And so when it came time, I

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had always planned to
go back to California.

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That's where my mom lives,

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my mom's side of the family.

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And so that's where I'd
always plan of a guy.

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That's where I'm going to
go back to school I'm going

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to go back to California.

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And then I had taken
my SATs, ACT, done,

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all that stuff and was
ready to go and met

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a girl and said,
well, I'll stay here.

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And so I went to KSU
to follow a girl.

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>> So what year did
you enroll in KSU?

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>> So fall of 2005. It
was my first semester.

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>> And what were your
first impressions of KSU?

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>> KSU quickly became,

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I don't know if it's first
impression, but my memory.

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So at high school,
I was not engaged.

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High school, I did
not do anything,

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didn't want to be
involved in anything,

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really just wanted out
as quickly as I could,

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took honors classes
just to get out of

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there. High school,
it's not my place.

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On the contrast, college
is a place I never left.

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KSU, really, for me,
I think, became home.

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It was the first time that I
chose where I got to live.

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It was not meeting
stations somewhere.

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It was not bouncing
between family members.

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This is my choice and I had
a lot of agency in that.

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And I quickly took
advantage of that

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and became extremely involved.

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So the polar opposite

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of my high school and
other experience.

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I got involved in
student organizations.

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I took on leadership
responsibilities.

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I felt like my voice
mattered and I had a way to

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create change on campus.

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And I think that's
really indicative of

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my overall KSU experience.

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It was a place that it was home.

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I felt like I belonged,
and I mattered,

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which I know sounds cliche,

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but it's the honest truth.

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It was my first time I got to

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choose when and where I was.

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And I really dug in on that.

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>> That's great. Did
you live on campus?

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>> No. That requires money.

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I didn't have that.
So the first time

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my family ever came to KSU
was the day I graduated.

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So it was very much on my own.

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So we had a house,

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over off of Baker

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that four or five of
us lived in, all KSU.

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Back then, Facebook was
just for college students.

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And so there was a little ad put

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on Facebook and we
were looking for

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roommates and ended
up being a bunch

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of students that were involved

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in Kennesaw Pride Alliance,

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and we all rented
a house together.

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So lived nearby on campus.

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It very much had
an on campus vibe

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in terms of all the college
kids hung out there,

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but didn't live on campus.

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>> What did you major in
and what led you to that?

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>> So my major was business
management, entrepreneurship.

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I had always toyed with them,

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I want to do business or do law,

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and I ended up going
on the business side.

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So when I got out

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of high school and I
had that semester off,

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I started doing custom picture
framing. So I got a job.

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That's my first job, I was
doing custom picture framing,

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and I had wanted to
open my own frame shop.

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And so I went ahead and
majored in business,

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thinking of giving the tools

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that I needed to be
able to do that.

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And I did while I was
actually in college.

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I actually founded and opened up

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a frame shop or started to
then the recession hit.

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People don't want to buy in
a recession when they're

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losing their homes really

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expensive custom picture frames.

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So that didn't turn out
the way I had planned,

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but that's what got me
going into business.

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And I enjoy building,

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creating, figuring out why

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things work, how do
you meet a need?

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How do you improve a process,

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efficiency and effectiveness
or things that

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I like to toy around with?

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00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,650
Business seemed a
place to be able

256
00:10:21,650 --> 00:10:23,370
to do that and learn
how to do it better.

257
00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:27,340
>> Great. So what

258
00:10:27,340 --> 00:10:29,240
was campus life like when

259
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,010
you were a student,
just in general?

260
00:10:32,010 --> 00:10:35,340
>> I was a very
involved student.

261
00:10:35,340 --> 00:10:38,625
But I would say that I was
very involved in a narrow way.

262
00:10:38,625 --> 00:10:41,600
So my campus
experience was really

263
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,480
centered largely on
Kennesaw Pride Alliance,

264
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,920
Department of
Student Activities,

265
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,740
KSU hockey, because
hockey was a big deal.

266
00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:58,100
But from a student leader

267
00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:00,135
and a student
organizing perspective,

268
00:11:00,135 --> 00:11:03,290
a lot of what I remember is,

269
00:11:03,290 --> 00:11:06,390
there was a great degree
of autonomy that we're

270
00:11:06,390 --> 00:11:09,470
given to students to
experiment, build, and create.

271
00:11:09,470 --> 00:11:11,515
That's something
that Dr. Rachford,

272
00:11:11,515 --> 00:11:14,035
who's the Vice President of
student affairs at the time,

273
00:11:14,035 --> 00:11:16,220
I think it was called
student success at the time,

274
00:11:16,220 --> 00:11:20,070
but we've gone through
a lot of reorgs.

275
00:11:20,070 --> 00:11:21,705
But Dr. Rachford,

276
00:11:21,705 --> 00:11:23,170
he had a really
strong belief that

277
00:11:23,170 --> 00:11:24,750
the role of student
activities is,

278
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,030
it was a space for students

279
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:29,695
to be able to test
out real-life skills.

280
00:11:29,695 --> 00:11:32,390
So when we got awarded
money and requested

281
00:11:32,390 --> 00:11:35,550
budgets and were given
space and resources,

282
00:11:35,550 --> 00:11:37,190
it was a way for us
to experiment with

283
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:41,055
real things in a way where
the stakes weren't as high.

284
00:11:41,055 --> 00:11:42,760
And so that's what a
lot of what we got to

285
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,320
do as student organization.

286
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,380
It was really decide,
hey, we want to

287
00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:46,660
create this event on campus.

288
00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:49,340
There's an experience that
we think is not being met.

289
00:11:49,340 --> 00:11:53,340
And we would just use our
imagination and shoot for

290
00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:57,240
the sky and try to do it and
see what we could build.

291
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,560
And so that's what a
lot of my memories

292
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:00,315
are and a lot of spending time.

293
00:12:00,315 --> 00:12:01,860
On the third floor of
the student center,

294
00:12:01,860 --> 00:12:03,940
there used to be these cubicles.

295
00:12:03,980 --> 00:12:06,210
There was about 50 of them,

296
00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:07,890
they are 300 organizations.

297
00:12:07,890 --> 00:12:10,660
So it was competitive
to get a cubicle.

298
00:12:10,660 --> 00:12:12,920
And KPA every year
we got a cubicle.

299
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,900
Now, these cubicles,
back in the day,

300
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,700
they were a different beast.

301
00:12:16,700 --> 00:12:18,220
People had bunk beds in there.

302
00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:21,660
It was a completely
student-run space

303
00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:23,320
with very little rules,

304
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,600
which is why there's
no longer cubicles.

305
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,360
But back in the day,
it was a lot of fun.

306
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:29,640
That's basically where we lived.

307
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,340
There's a balcony out there.

308
00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,540
We'd hang out in the balcony
and listen to music.

309
00:12:33,540 --> 00:12:35,760
We had furniture stacked
on top of each other.

310
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,360
We turned coolers into couches.

311
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,420
This was a very much a
student created space,

312
00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:45,120
and that's where if I
wasn't in the cubicle,

313
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,690
we're hanging out on the campus
green or sometimes class.

314
00:12:48,690 --> 00:12:50,230
I felt like when I'm
in college class

315
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:52,570
really got in the way of
the college experience.

316
00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:54,690
Again, I was not always a

317
00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:57,175
stellar student with attendance.

318
00:12:57,175 --> 00:13:01,450
But that's my vast
memory of KSU.

319
00:13:01,450 --> 00:13:02,990
There are so many different
things that are being

320
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:04,650
created by students,

321
00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:06,430
just having ideas
and being empowered

322
00:13:06,430 --> 00:13:08,410
by university leadership
to go out and build them.

323
00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:10,190
There's things that
still exist this day on

324
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:12,390
campus that are the result

325
00:13:12,390 --> 00:13:14,470
of student going,
hey, I have an idea.

326
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:16,745
And then we were
empowered to do that.

327
00:13:16,745 --> 00:13:17,320
Which I think is

328
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,100
a really cool and
unique thing about KSU,

329
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:21,080
especially as large as it
got as quick as it got.

330
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,040
Now, having a
professional side seeing

331
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,140
and understanding how unique of

332
00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:27,820
an experience that
was at a institution

333
00:13:27,820 --> 00:13:29,140
this size to still be able to

334
00:13:29,140 --> 00:13:30,820
retain that ability to

335
00:13:30,820 --> 00:13:32,915
give students that
license to create.

336
00:13:32,915 --> 00:13:36,130
>> That's great. So compared

337
00:13:36,130 --> 00:13:38,150
to maybe some of
your classmates,

338
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:40,470
do you feel like you were on

339
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:42,810
the more involved
side of things?

340
00:13:42,810 --> 00:13:44,630
Do you think there were
still a lot of students who

341
00:13:44,630 --> 00:13:47,225
treated it like a
commuter experience?

342
00:13:47,225 --> 00:13:49,350
>> No, there was
definitely a difference.

343
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:51,015
So the P2P student,

344
00:13:51,015 --> 00:13:54,240
and they call the parking
lot-parking lot student

345
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,310
and they go in and go to class,

346
00:13:55,310 --> 00:13:57,060
go back to the parking lot.

347
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:59,830
There was a core group
of us and I would say

348
00:13:59,830 --> 00:14:02,070
it's honestly still now true for

349
00:14:02,070 --> 00:14:04,070
KSU to an extent that you

350
00:14:04,070 --> 00:14:06,530
have a core of
highly-engaged students,

351
00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:08,330
and then you have students
who are just participating

352
00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:09,690
and live on campus or engaged

353
00:14:09,690 --> 00:14:11,030
and then you have
commuter students

354
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:13,170
who are not necessarily
as largely engaged.

355
00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:15,170
And I would say that
we were definitely on

356
00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:18,150
the higher end of engagement.
There was a group of us.

357
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:21,150
But again, there's two realms

358
00:14:21,150 --> 00:14:22,550
where there was a group of

359
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:23,750
student leaders
who are trying to

360
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:24,870
really enact change on campus,

361
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:25,750
and so we had a lot of

362
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:27,010
interaction with
the administration.

363
00:14:27,010 --> 00:14:28,230
I was serving on a lot of

364
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:30,330
university committees and having

365
00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:32,530
those leadership responsibilities
of interacting with

366
00:14:32,530 --> 00:14:35,845
folks above leadership
in the institution.

367
00:14:35,845 --> 00:14:38,680
But then there was
also the high level of

368
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,655
engagement within our community.

369
00:14:41,655 --> 00:14:43,530
We had created our own space

370
00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:47,460
as a group of LQBT
queer students,

371
00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:48,980
finding a place to exist

372
00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:50,445
on campus and the
first time that we

373
00:14:50,445 --> 00:14:52,260
ever got to be that out

374
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,680
and open and create
those experiences.

375
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,020
So there's a lot
of engagement and

376
00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:57,360
a very tight knit group of

377
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,100
students and a community

378
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:01,770
that I was definitely
zeroed in on.

379
00:15:01,770 --> 00:15:04,100
>> So what was Kennesaw
Pride Alliance

380
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:06,120
like when you first
joined the group?

381
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,895
Do you remember your
first impression there?

382
00:15:07,895 --> 00:15:10,000
>> Yeah, I think I got pictures

383
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,320
of the first meeting
that I went to actually,

384
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,600
back when we had film.

385
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,170
So KPA is something that

386
00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:22,830
I got involved in and I got
involved in very quickly.

387
00:15:22,830 --> 00:15:25,330
So I started KSU
in fall of 2005.

388
00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:29,850
I was held an officer
position in spring of 2006.

389
00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:33,230
So like I said, I
jumped in full force.

390
00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:38,430
The first event that I
participated with KPA,

391
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,820
we had this thing
called the Coming Out

392
00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:42,930
day Cookout which I
think they still do.

393
00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:47,695
But back in the day,
we had this VW bug,

394
00:15:47,695 --> 00:15:49,450
was a bright yellow VW bug

395
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:51,525
that had been converted
into a grill.

396
00:15:51,525 --> 00:15:54,845
The top was sawed off and
it was this giant grill.

397
00:15:54,845 --> 00:15:57,920
It was bright yellow
and it was the cab

398
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,950
for KU Kennesaw
Activities Board,

399
00:16:00,950 --> 00:16:03,485
so it was the cab for cab.

400
00:16:03,485 --> 00:16:05,090
It was this giant grill.

401
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,320
So we held the Coming out day

402
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,600
Cookout for National
Coming out Day.

403
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,005
And we fed a bunch of
students on campus.

404
00:16:12,005 --> 00:16:13,490
We got money from the university

405
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:14,570
to go out and buy hamburgers,

406
00:16:14,570 --> 00:16:16,370
hot dogs, hotdog buns
and the whole nine,

407
00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:18,710
and we just held a giant
cookout and grilled for

408
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:22,130
the campus to celebrate
National Coming out Day.

409
00:16:22,130 --> 00:16:26,120
And that was the first time
I had seen like in person,

410
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,520
out queerness, and it's not like

411
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,800
a secret or just between
people or a conversation.

412
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,360
It was just like
this very out and

413
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,620
open and unapologetic
representation

414
00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,810
of queer life was the first
time I'd ever seen that,

415
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:41,110
and that hooked me, as

416
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:44,220
somebody who was still in the
early stages of coming out.

417
00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,190
Not really knowing
what that meant,

418
00:16:46,190 --> 00:16:48,425
how I fit into society,

419
00:16:48,425 --> 00:16:50,300
how society would accept me,

420
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:51,920
how I would accept society and

421
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,690
that interaction to
then walk in and

422
00:16:53,690 --> 00:16:56,225
see people out just doing this

423
00:16:56,225 --> 00:16:57,890
openly and people

424
00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:59,000
coming out and saying,
Hey, how are you doing?

425
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,100
I'd love a hot dog. There
was not this resistance,

426
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:02,465
there was not this anger

427
00:17:02,465 --> 00:17:04,850
that I think I had been
trained to expect.

428
00:17:04,850 --> 00:17:06,560
So for me, that was
something I wanted

429
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,195
to be involved in that.

430
00:17:08,195 --> 00:17:11,600
And people were welcoming in
the community was so open.

431
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,340
So that's something
that I quickly

432
00:17:13,340 --> 00:17:15,290
wanted to be a part of
and wanted to help create

433
00:17:15,290 --> 00:17:18,620
more of is people feeling
welcoming at home because it's

434
00:17:18,620 --> 00:17:19,700
something that I
didn't have a lot

435
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:22,010
of growing up moving so often.

436
00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:25,550
So that's my first impression

437
00:17:25,550 --> 00:17:27,935
of KPA was like,
This is amazing.

438
00:17:27,935 --> 00:17:29,450
This is something that
I need to be a part

439
00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:31,205
of. I think I can help.

440
00:17:31,205 --> 00:17:34,910
And they had just come
through a revitalization.

441
00:17:34,910 --> 00:17:38,840
So I think it was 2004,

442
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,145
the group had been reactivated,

443
00:17:40,145 --> 00:17:42,305
so it had gone dormant
for a little while.

444
00:17:42,305 --> 00:17:45,200
So J Smallwood had

445
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,850
come in and was the
president when I came in,

446
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:50,230
so he had reactivated
the organization and

447
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:52,795
we had a kindred because
he was a military kid too.

448
00:17:52,795 --> 00:17:54,505
So we understood each other and

449
00:17:54,505 --> 00:17:58,740
how that feeling of home
we had found in KPA,

450
00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,760
and then when he chose not
to run for officer again,

451
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,145
then I ran in the Spring
for an officer position.

452
00:18:04,145 --> 00:18:07,340
I think the first semester,
I was an officer.

453
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:08,540
I can't remember what position
I held. I think it was

454
00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:09,800
like secretary or
something like that.

455
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,070
And then that following
year I was the president.

456
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:14,750
So I had become the president
of the organization

457
00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:16,770
that second year.

458
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:19,850
>> So tell us a little bit about

459
00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:23,600
what activities and
programs KHA would do.

460
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,250
>> So the cookout was

461
00:18:25,250 --> 00:18:27,020
probably our big at
the initial time,

462
00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:28,715
that was a big event and that
was a big deal at the time.

463
00:18:28,715 --> 00:18:30,500
We had a dormant organization

464
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:32,000
coming out and now requesting

465
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,020
thousands of dollars to hold

466
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:36,230
a giant cookout on the
campus screen at the time,

467
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:38,360
it was on the
terrace in the back,

468
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:39,965
and that's important later why

469
00:18:39,965 --> 00:18:42,890
my theory on why we don't
have that grill anymore.

470
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:45,380
But it was on the terrace.

471
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:49,070
And then we started
an event that I had

472
00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:52,985
brought in was celebrating
National coming out Day,

473
00:18:52,985 --> 00:18:55,580
which is in K-12 environments.

474
00:18:55,580 --> 00:18:57,050
It is a day of silence,

475
00:18:57,050 --> 00:18:59,930
a vow silence to
mirror or amplify

476
00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:01,220
the silencing that
queer students

477
00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:03,305
feel in a K-12 environment.

478
00:19:03,305 --> 00:19:05,555
But us being college students,

479
00:19:05,555 --> 00:19:08,060
I'm learning through this
cookout that we do have voice.

480
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:09,290
We have agents we can speak out.

481
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:11,525
There's no be telling us
we can't say something.

482
00:19:11,525 --> 00:19:14,750
So we held an opposite day

483
00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:16,715
of silence where it was
a day of speaking out.

484
00:19:16,715 --> 00:19:18,050
We took up space on the green,

485
00:19:18,050 --> 00:19:19,355
we toured around the campus,

486
00:19:19,355 --> 00:19:21,470
handed out water
bottles with statistics

487
00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:23,810
about queer life,

488
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:26,015
particularly in an
educational setting,

489
00:19:26,015 --> 00:19:27,620
try to bring awareness to that

490
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:29,285
silencing through
using our voice.

491
00:19:29,285 --> 00:19:30,980
That was an event
that we had started.

492
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:33,410
And we ended up
purchasing shirts

493
00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:35,270
that said gay question mark,

494
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:37,970
fine by me, we ordered
them in KSU colors.

495
00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:39,770
There's black gold Maron.

496
00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:42,395
But back in the day,
Maron was a school color.

497
00:19:42,395 --> 00:19:44,300
So we had those and
we passed those out.

498
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,340
It was a big deal to
make that connection

499
00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:48,800
between being a KSU student.

500
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,790
It was really important
to me that they were

501
00:19:49,790 --> 00:19:51,605
KSU colors because again,

502
00:19:51,605 --> 00:19:53,720
that's where that sense of
home and belonging should

503
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,760
be and then to queer that was

504
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,830
really just to amplify
the sense of belonging

505
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:59,030
for students who maybe didn't

506
00:19:59,030 --> 00:20:00,755
always feel like they belonged.

507
00:20:00,755 --> 00:20:03,275
And that was an event
that we started

508
00:20:03,275 --> 00:20:05,750
and then we had our
first drag show,

509
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:07,970
and that was a lot of fun.

510
00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:09,965
So they still do
the drag show now,

511
00:20:09,965 --> 00:20:12,215
but it's changed a lot since
it was originally done.

512
00:20:12,215 --> 00:20:15,875
So we first had the idea
of doing a drag show.

513
00:20:15,875 --> 00:20:17,435
We didn't hold it on campus.

514
00:20:17,435 --> 00:20:19,190
We didn't think
it would be okay.

515
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:21,170
We knew we would get the space.

516
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:22,400
Nobody would tell us no, but

517
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,540
we were really concerned
that nobody would

518
00:20:23,540 --> 00:20:26,450
come or it wouldn't
be received well.

519
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:28,490
This is back in, I think 2006 is

520
00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:31,530
when we did the first
drag show, maybe 2007.

521
00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:33,860
So we chose to
actually hold it off

522
00:20:33,860 --> 00:20:35,510
campus at a local bar.

523
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:41,480
So there was LeBz over in
Marietta was a local drag bar.

524
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,840
So we worked with them, and
it was a fundraising event,

525
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,730
so we were able to get a
percentage of the door fees,

526
00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:48,530
and we donated it to pals,

527
00:20:48,530 --> 00:20:50,810
an organization pets
or loving support,

528
00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:53,990
where they provide
animal care for patients

529
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:55,910
experiencing hospitalization
as a result of

530
00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:57,920
HIV AIDS, so they take
care of their animals.

531
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,630
That's one less thing that
they have to worry about.

532
00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:01,070
So we did a fundraiser for them.

533
00:21:01,070 --> 00:21:03,020
But it was a student
run drag show at

534
00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:06,110
a professional drag bar,
and it was a lot of fun.

535
00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:07,760
We had a lot of fun doing that.

536
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,120
We did that for years. We really

537
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,360
felt like that was a next
level full scale production.

538
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,610
And then I think
the year after I

539
00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:18,530
left is when we started
doing them on campus,

540
00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:19,670
students started
doing them on campus,

541
00:21:19,670 --> 00:21:21,545
and I thought that was
really spectacular.

542
00:21:21,545 --> 00:21:22,790
Something that we had never

543
00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:24,230
envisioned that it wasn't like,

544
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:25,895
let's not hold it on campus.

545
00:21:25,895 --> 00:21:28,865
It was the idea that, why
would you hold it on campus?

546
00:21:28,865 --> 00:21:30,770
There was not this feeling
of the community being big

547
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:33,905
enough and we were wrong.

548
00:21:33,905 --> 00:21:36,110
They do it on campus
now and you have

549
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:37,535
four or 500 people in the room

550
00:21:37,535 --> 00:21:39,050
coming out to celebrate
the Drag show.

551
00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:41,405
We had Scrappy in the
Dragshow one year.

552
00:21:41,405 --> 00:21:43,250
So there's video footage
of that somewhere,

553
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:45,020
scrappy and a drag show.

554
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:47,030
So I think that it

555
00:21:47,030 --> 00:21:49,760
was less about what would
actually happen and

556
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,085
more about our perceptions

557
00:21:52,085 --> 00:21:54,845
of what would happen outside
of our own knit community.

558
00:21:54,845 --> 00:21:56,420
We had this really
strong feeling

559
00:21:56,420 --> 00:21:58,250
within the community of KPA,

560
00:21:58,250 --> 00:21:59,510
but we didn't always feel that

561
00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:02,975
that community was replicated
across the institution.

562
00:22:02,975 --> 00:22:05,630
So if it wasn't us, if we
held a drag show on campus,

563
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:06,680
it would just be us showing up

564
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,120
and we're in the drag show,

565
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,755
then who's going to watch it?

566
00:22:09,755 --> 00:22:12,110
And I think we were a little
bit shortsighted there,

567
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:14,120
looking back on it,
but in the moment,

568
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,490
just felt like, why would
you hold it on campus?

569
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:19,280
>> Sure. So speaking of size,

570
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,615
about how many members did
KPA have at that time?

571
00:22:23,615 --> 00:22:29,210
>> That's a rough. Maybe I

572
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:32,690
think like actively
engaged folks, maybe 30.

573
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:34,100
We probably had a
roster a little bit

574
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:35,630
larger than that,
probably around 60,

575
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:38,000
so, but like actively engaged,

576
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,290
I'd say, probably
about 30 students.

577
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:44,525
>> So, you mentioned that

578
00:22:44,525 --> 00:22:47,105
they had been
dormant here before.

579
00:22:47,105 --> 00:22:48,530
What else do you know about

580
00:22:48,530 --> 00:22:51,290
the history of the organization
before you joined?

581
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:54,710
>> Yeah. So when I came
back as a professional,

582
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:55,670
I did a little digging trying to

583
00:22:55,670 --> 00:22:57,350
understand the
history of myself.

584
00:22:57,350 --> 00:23:03,740
So what I had to go on was
that the year I came in,

585
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:05,690
Jay had ordered these red shirts

586
00:23:05,690 --> 00:23:06,920
and say Kennesaw [inaudible],

587
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,855
established in 1991,

588
00:23:08,855 --> 00:23:10,805
and it was like
baseball style shirts.

589
00:23:10,805 --> 00:23:13,580
That's all I had to go on
about when it really started.

590
00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:15,620
And then I worked
with Cathy all day,

591
00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:17,060
who was the director of
student activities at

592
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:19,760
the time to try to find
out what happened.

593
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,920
Her pulling out her old
notes and trying to

594
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,030
follow the organization because

595
00:23:23,030 --> 00:23:25,130
she had been there for a while.

596
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:27,395
So it looks like it was glue

597
00:23:27,395 --> 00:23:29,210
is what it started at in 1991.

598
00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:31,010
I ended up later meeting
with David Nubecker

599
00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:32,780
who was a student
who founded it.

600
00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:35,150
So was glue, gays and lesbians

601
00:23:35,150 --> 00:23:38,705
United in equality
was where it started.

602
00:23:38,705 --> 00:23:41,165
Then it was active
for a few years.

603
00:23:41,165 --> 00:23:42,695
The history gets
a little sketchy.

604
00:23:42,695 --> 00:23:45,110
I think there's some overlap,
some SGA involvement

605
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:46,745
and then glue leadership.

606
00:23:46,745 --> 00:23:49,700
And then it went
dormant and came back.

607
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,070
DJ Burr brought it back as

608
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:54,530
the GLSA the gay and
lesbian Student Alliance,

609
00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:55,880
which is a pretty
common way of naming

610
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,835
these organizations
like GSAs and GLSA.

611
00:23:58,835 --> 00:24:02,315
Then the GLSA is what
had gone dormant,

612
00:24:02,315 --> 00:24:04,910
and then it got revitalized in

613
00:24:04,910 --> 00:24:08,480
2004 by Jay and

614
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,360
that was when they switched
to Kennesaw Pride Alliance.

615
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,960
>> Do you know what made them
decide on that name change?

616
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,020
>> So I think it was to open up

617
00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:22,475
the inclusivity a little
bit, realizing that A,

618
00:24:22,475 --> 00:24:26,960
I think the GLSAs just
a little bit dated in

619
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,880
terms of language and
then opening up to

620
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,400
particularly not
inclusive bisexuality.

621
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,740
I to be honest, I don't
know that trans inclusion

622
00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:36,620
was the impetus, at the time,

623
00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:39,080
it was not a conversation that

624
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,145
was happening openly or being
reflected upon at the time.

625
00:24:43,145 --> 00:24:44,780
So I wouldn't feel confident

626
00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:46,820
saying that it was
for trans inclusion.

627
00:24:46,820 --> 00:24:50,780
I say it wasn't I think
it was just trying to

628
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:52,400
open it up a little bit more

629
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,620
and not focusing on
specific identities,

630
00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:59,760
but really more this idea of
having pride in who you are.

631
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:06,395
>> Yeah. So what about the
LGBTQ Collegiate Summit?

632
00:25:06,395 --> 00:25:08,585
That was an annual event at KSU?

633
00:25:08,585 --> 00:25:10,340
>> Yeah. That was
actually originally

634
00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:13,920
started Dr. Teresa Joyce,

635
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:16,700
she was over in Coles and then

636
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:19,040
was the Senior
Associate Vice provost.

637
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,395
She had started that as

638
00:25:21,395 --> 00:25:25,190
the offshoot of the
Safe Space Initiative.

639
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:29,060
So Dr. Joyce was
instrumental in starting

640
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:30,380
the Safe Space initiative
and working with

641
00:25:30,380 --> 00:25:33,650
the GLSA to get that
off the ground.

642
00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:35,210
One of the things that
came out of that was

643
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:38,735
an annual conference to bring

644
00:25:38,735 --> 00:25:45,470
together folks doing LGBT type
work on college campuses.

645
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:47,630
I think started really
looking at Georgia and then

646
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:50,075
eventually grew to pull
from the Southeast.

647
00:25:50,075 --> 00:25:52,220
It's just we gave

648
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:54,155
out some awards and it
looked also at high school.

649
00:25:54,155 --> 00:25:55,280
There was that Teacher of

650
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,410
the Year award that was
given out to somebody who

651
00:25:57,410 --> 00:25:59,540
would be nominated for
Educator of the Year

652
00:25:59,540 --> 00:26:01,710
for a K-12 environment.

653
00:26:01,710 --> 00:26:03,370
Folks involved in safe spaces

654
00:26:03,370 --> 00:26:06,940
across college campuses
and education,

655
00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:09,460
and then also a chance

656
00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:11,275
for us to bring the student
organizations together.

657
00:26:11,275 --> 00:26:13,975
That's where my involvement
mostly came into a,

658
00:26:13,975 --> 00:26:16,600
how are we building
alliances and

659
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,220
relationships with

660
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:22,015
all the other LGBT student
organizations within the USG.

661
00:26:22,015 --> 00:26:24,295
So that's where in the summit,

662
00:26:24,295 --> 00:26:26,500
it was a traditional
conference style.

663
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:27,970
So there's different
folks coming with

664
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:30,550
Shane Windmier Campus
Pride came one year.

665
00:26:30,550 --> 00:26:32,260
I know Daniel Helminiac was

666
00:26:32,260 --> 00:26:33,550
our keynote speaker
one year because I

667
00:26:33,550 --> 00:26:34,900
remember being very stressed to

668
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:36,370
make sure I said
his name correctly,

669
00:26:36,370 --> 00:26:37,970
so it's Daniel Helminiac.

670
00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:40,355
He came and did the
keynote speaking.

671
00:26:40,355 --> 00:26:42,590
There's different
conference sessions.

672
00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:44,480
We'd work with Deloit
a lot and bring in

673
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,580
different businesses to
come and talk about what

674
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:48,410
does it mean to be
out in the workplace

675
00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:50,510
and all of these
resources for students.

676
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:52,040
But the end, we always ended

677
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,870
with the collegiate round table.

678
00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:56,120
And then we would take
over the university rooms

679
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:57,770
and have a giant circle built of

680
00:26:57,770 --> 00:26:59,330
all the chairs and all
the student leaders from

681
00:26:59,330 --> 00:27:02,150
the LGBT student organizations
would come together.

682
00:27:02,150 --> 00:27:05,135
It was this space of open
sharing and alliance building,

683
00:27:05,135 --> 00:27:07,130
what have your challenges
been on college campuses?

684
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:08,900
What have your successes been?

685
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:10,550
How can we partner together?

686
00:27:10,550 --> 00:27:12,620
Every year, we always had
this idea that we'd have

687
00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:15,800
the Georgia Collegiate
Pride Alliance and

688
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,325
some manifestation and it
has never come to fruition.

689
00:27:19,325 --> 00:27:20,825
They're trying it again now,

690
00:27:20,825 --> 00:27:21,890
it's something that
they're looking

691
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:22,790
into doing and trying to

692
00:27:22,790 --> 00:27:25,100
again figure out
how to not all work

693
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:27,020
in silos to talk about
what does it mean to be

694
00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:29,930
a student and LGBT
on a college campus.

695
00:27:29,930 --> 00:27:32,390
But that was an event that
we held for years. I grew.

696
00:27:32,390 --> 00:27:35,420
We were pulling people in
from Alabama and Florida.

697
00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:37,625
It had grown into a
really big event.

698
00:27:37,625 --> 00:27:40,460
After I had left KPA,

699
00:27:40,460 --> 00:27:43,400
the next administration had

700
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,965
decided that it should be
a traveling conference,

701
00:27:45,965 --> 00:27:48,350
and then it shouldn't
just be located at KSU,

702
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:51,650
so I think they had two
years of it traveling and

703
00:27:51,650 --> 00:27:53,255
then it went to one institution

704
00:27:53,255 --> 00:27:55,100
and just never left
that institution.

705
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:56,705
It's no longer
called the summit,

706
00:27:56,705 --> 00:27:59,990
but they still do an
annual conference,

707
00:27:59,990 --> 00:28:01,430
I think, I don't know
if they still do today,

708
00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:02,930
but it had happened
for a couple of years.

709
00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:06,590
So after that, the summit
just never really came back.

710
00:28:06,590 --> 00:28:09,380
>> Did KPA ever do
joint events with

711
00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:12,695
any other college LGBTQ groups?

712
00:28:12,695 --> 00:28:16,460
>> I think there had been maybe
think with Georgia State.

713
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:18,395
I think they might
have done something

714
00:28:18,395 --> 00:28:20,970
around the drag show one year.

715
00:28:21,730 --> 00:28:24,080
I think they worked
together or they

716
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,670
partnered with each
other's drag show.

717
00:28:25,670 --> 00:28:27,920
They had performers from
KSU performing in the state

718
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,365
one and folks from state
performing in the KSU one.

719
00:28:30,365 --> 00:28:31,730
But as far as I know,

720
00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:33,950
I think that's the
only something

721
00:28:33,950 --> 00:28:36,360
that really, truly
came out of it.

722
00:28:37,390 --> 00:28:39,710
>> So can you tell
us a bit about

723
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:42,230
your role in submitting
a proposal for

724
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:45,260
a professionally staffed
LGBTQ Resource Center

725
00:28:45,260 --> 00:28:48,080
to the Chief Diversity
Officer in 2008?

726
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,955
>> So, a group of friends and I.

727
00:28:52,955 --> 00:28:54,740
We were quickly approaching
this thing called

728
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:56,180
graduation and realize that

729
00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:58,325
college is going
to come to an end.

730
00:28:58,325 --> 00:29:02,240
And I had already I think in

731
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,910
my third year of being
president, I was done.

732
00:29:07,910 --> 00:29:10,220
I was ready to focus
on other things.

733
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:11,915
I had felt the pressure

734
00:29:11,915 --> 00:29:13,760
of being the source
of all of this,

735
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:14,960
but every year,
we'd have elections

736
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,550
and nobody else would run.

737
00:29:16,550 --> 00:29:19,430
So I was like, well,
if I don't run,

738
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:22,010
the organization goes dormant

739
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:23,570
and we have all
these people who are

740
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:25,920
involved and want
to participate.

741
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,520
Me coming out I was
like, this is not

742
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,980
sustainable and it's
also not fair that

743
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:33,155
the entire weight of

744
00:29:33,155 --> 00:29:36,680
queer community and sense
of belonging that building

745
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,215
that sense of belonging
for the population

746
00:29:39,215 --> 00:29:43,160
sat on the back of students
that didn't seem fair.

747
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,110
Socially I looked around
and I saw that there were

748
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:47,780
other offices on
campus that provided

749
00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:50,450
support and community building

750
00:29:50,450 --> 00:29:52,535
for underrepresented
students on campus.

751
00:29:52,535 --> 00:29:54,140
And there was

752
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:56,360
the International Student
Retention Services Office,

753
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,250
the Multicultural Student
Retention Service Office.

754
00:29:58,250 --> 00:30:00,500
We saw student
disability services,

755
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,790
we saw women's resource There's

756
00:30:01,790 --> 00:30:04,520
other resources on
campus focusing on

757
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,710
specific populations
and offering

758
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:09,215
them support and resources.

759
00:30:09,215 --> 00:30:10,400
They didn't have There was

760
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,050
student organizations
attach those offices,

761
00:30:12,050 --> 00:30:14,480
so students had
autonomy to plan,

762
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,600
but the entire weight of it
did not sit on students,

763
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,580
whether there was a community or

764
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:21,020
not did not sit on the
weight of students.

765
00:30:21,020 --> 00:30:25,010
So I started getting
a group of us myself,

766
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:26,570
the woman who eventually
become my wife

767
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:29,570
Tiffany Duval and
Stephen Satterfield.

768
00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:31,040
We started working
with our advisor

769
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560
doctor Whitlock to ask

770
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,510
those questions like why

771
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:37,985
isn't there something
for the LGBTQ community?

772
00:30:37,985 --> 00:30:40,580
What responsibility does
the university have to

773
00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:42,080
provide support and resources

774
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,030
for this population of students,

775
00:30:44,030 --> 00:30:46,715
and what would that
look like if they did?

776
00:30:46,715 --> 00:30:49,550
So we drafted a proposal.

777
00:30:49,550 --> 00:30:50,975
We looked at other institutions.

778
00:30:50,975 --> 00:30:53,885
LG resources Centers
are still fairly new.

779
00:30:53,885 --> 00:30:55,520
I think the only one in
the state of Georgia at

780
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,320
the time was [inaudible].

781
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,910
Which is a hard model to
follow when you're at

782
00:30:58,910 --> 00:31:00,200
a public institution
is to follow

783
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,015
a private institutions model.

784
00:31:02,015 --> 00:31:04,400
So we did a lot of benchmarking

785
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,990
and wrote up a
proposal that I have

786
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:09,155
told archives that I
will give to y'all

787
00:31:09,155 --> 00:31:12,670
once I'm no longer
retire because,

788
00:31:12,670 --> 00:31:15,130
well, I thought it was
stellar at the time.

789
00:31:15,130 --> 00:31:17,150
I have now come back
to read it and it

790
00:31:17,150 --> 00:31:20,010
was not good and I'm surprised
anything happened to it.

791
00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:22,480
Because it was not
as well written as

792
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,805
I felt that it was in college.

793
00:31:24,805 --> 00:31:28,330
but we drafted that up,

794
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:29,710
thought about what
were the space

795
00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:31,060
allocations that
would be needed?

796
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:32,110
What programming and

797
00:31:32,110 --> 00:31:33,610
services could be
provided out there?

798
00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:35,320
What would the staffing
and technology needs

799
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,750
be and drafted that together,

800
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:39,370
and we were empowered by folks.

801
00:31:39,370 --> 00:31:42,550
I had a lot of really
great folks at KSU in

802
00:31:42,550 --> 00:31:43,720
leadership positions
that were really

803
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,195
supportive of the things
that we wanted to do in KPA.

804
00:31:46,195 --> 00:31:48,070
I don't think we would
have gotten nearly as far

805
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:49,675
or been able to do as
many things as we could

806
00:31:49,675 --> 00:31:52,075
that we did do if we
didn't have a lot of

807
00:31:52,075 --> 00:31:53,260
really strong mentorship and

808
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:55,345
support from folks on campus.

809
00:31:55,345 --> 00:31:57,250
And so for some reason,

810
00:31:57,250 --> 00:31:59,050
we thought as 20 somethings that

811
00:31:59,050 --> 00:32:01,090
we knew what was best
and we wrote a proposal,

812
00:32:01,090 --> 00:32:03,160
and we submitted it
to the institution

813
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,535
and then I graduated.

814
00:32:06,535 --> 00:32:08,380
We wrote this proposal up.

815
00:32:08,380 --> 00:32:09,745
Nothing happened with it,

816
00:32:09,745 --> 00:32:11,845
as far as I know,
while I was in school.

817
00:32:11,845 --> 00:32:14,155
We talked about it. It had
been an issue that come up.

818
00:32:14,155 --> 00:32:15,760
The University had started
a presidential commission

819
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,620
on LGBTQ initiatives,

820
00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:19,420
I think in 2008,

821
00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:21,040
and I served on that committee

822
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,900
as a student representative.

823
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:24,520
There was a campus
climate study was done.

824
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,540
There are some other
things that are going,

825
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:27,970
particularly around staff
and faculty engagement,

826
00:32:27,970 --> 00:32:32,120
involvement around sexual
orientation, particularly.

827
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:35,605
But I submitted it up to
them and it was Dr. Wiberg.

828
00:32:35,605 --> 00:32:38,875
She was the brand new CDO.

829
00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:42,310
It was our first CDO that we
had ever had was Dr. Wiberg.

830
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:43,750
And so I submitted up to

831
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:46,660
her office and a lot of
other folks who had way

832
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:48,340
more important jobs
than me and a lot of

833
00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:49,510
different responsibility
they took

834
00:32:49,510 --> 00:32:51,190
it and they made
something happen with it.

835
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:54,910
I didn't know until
I found out about

836
00:32:54,910 --> 00:32:56,890
the job opening for the
coordinator position

837
00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:58,540
because I graduated,

838
00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:00,625
I didn't think that was ever
going to happen, but I did.

839
00:33:00,625 --> 00:33:02,530
I graduated and I went out into

840
00:33:02,530 --> 00:33:04,930
the "real world,"
was out there doing

841
00:33:04,930 --> 00:33:08,200
picture framing
and I had happened

842
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,250
to run into Dr. Joyce outside
of a Ted's Montana Grill.

843
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:14,890
And she was like, I
need you to call me.

844
00:33:14,890 --> 00:33:17,410
We got to talk about something.

845
00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:22,135
I didn't call. I should
have called, but I didn't.

846
00:33:22,135 --> 00:33:24,370
But it got me thinking about KSU

847
00:33:24,370 --> 00:33:26,590
and I was ready to move on
to something different.

848
00:33:26,590 --> 00:33:28,735
I wanted a "career"
and not a job,

849
00:33:28,735 --> 00:33:32,905
so I happened to go
onto the KSU job board.

850
00:33:32,905 --> 00:33:35,320
And then I saw like
I was sitting in

851
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,210
my car on my break at work.

852
00:33:37,210 --> 00:33:40,090
I was working retail and
I was flipping through

853
00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:41,455
my phone and I saw it and

854
00:33:41,455 --> 00:33:43,535
my heart stopped and I was like,

855
00:33:43,535 --> 00:33:46,440
this is a thing,
somebody made it.

856
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,345
I submitted this piece of paper,

857
00:33:48,345 --> 00:33:51,675
and now it's a real office
and they're hiring,

858
00:33:51,675 --> 00:33:54,060
it became real,
this thing because

859
00:33:54,060 --> 00:33:56,385
I had always told folks
when I wrote the proposal.

860
00:33:56,385 --> 00:33:57,750
I remember sitting
in a commission

861
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:59,760
meeting and looking
around the table,

862
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,190
going, let's all be very clear.

863
00:34:02,190 --> 00:34:05,325
I'm doing this so I can
work. This is my job.

864
00:34:05,325 --> 00:34:06,660
I'm building the center and I

865
00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:08,010
will come back and run this.

866
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:09,330
This is my job,

867
00:34:09,330 --> 00:34:10,080
and I was very trained on

868
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,230
this is what I want
to do I'm making

869
00:34:11,230 --> 00:34:13,975
my job. They all laughed.

870
00:34:13,975 --> 00:34:16,240
But, I came back,

871
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,845
and that's what I told
him when I applied.

872
00:34:17,845 --> 00:34:19,900
I put in and I was
young and didn't

873
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:21,760
know anything about how
actual hiring processes

874
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,515
worked or anything like that

875
00:34:23,515 --> 00:34:26,350
or what the university
structure was, to be honest.

876
00:34:26,350 --> 00:34:29,365
And so I had called
a mentor of mine,

877
00:34:29,365 --> 00:34:33,070
Dr. Nicole Phillips,
and he called and said,

878
00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:34,675
do you know anything
about this position?

879
00:34:34,675 --> 00:34:35,800
Like, what is this about?

880
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,855
Where is it going to
be? I need to know.

881
00:34:37,855 --> 00:34:40,525
And turns out she was going
to be my boss later on.

882
00:34:40,525 --> 00:34:42,085
I told him I said, look,

883
00:34:42,085 --> 00:34:44,020
I'm going to show
up to help with

884
00:34:44,020 --> 00:34:45,895
this center one
way or the other.

885
00:34:45,895 --> 00:34:47,155
If you hire me though,

886
00:34:47,155 --> 00:34:48,970
I'm not in the way.

887
00:34:48,970 --> 00:34:51,580
And so I went through the
process and search committee

888
00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:53,335
and all that good stuff and

889
00:34:53,335 --> 00:34:54,880
was able to come back and be

890
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,955
the founding full time
coordinator for the space.

891
00:34:57,955 --> 00:35:00,670
>> Awesome. So you mentioned

892
00:35:00,670 --> 00:35:04,720
the LGBTQ initiatives and

893
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,460
some other committees
that you had served on as

894
00:35:06,460 --> 00:35:07,360
a student rep. Do you

895
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,680
remember any of the
other committees?

896
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,705
>> So the major one was the
presidential commission,

897
00:35:10,705 --> 00:35:12,670
and it had a couple
of iterations.

898
00:35:12,670 --> 00:35:16,030
So we were the student
voice on that.

899
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:19,030
I had participated in
SBAC a little bit,

900
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:21,400
which is student activities

901
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,130
Budget Advisory Committee, SBAC.

902
00:35:24,130 --> 00:35:28,255
And and then I was on
the search committee.

903
00:35:28,255 --> 00:35:30,145
I was a student for the
search committee for

904
00:35:30,145 --> 00:35:33,205
the chief diversity officer,
Dr. Wiberg's position.

905
00:35:33,205 --> 00:35:35,320
And so I got to serve
in that capacity,

906
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,340
and there's a few other things.

907
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,890
But those have the big
highlights are ones that I think

908
00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:42,250
are memorable to me. I'm
sure there were more.

909
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:44,620
>> And you mentioned
a few folks like Dr.

910
00:35:44,620 --> 00:35:47,400
Rachford and Teresa Joyce.

911
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,920
Were there other professors
or staff members that you

912
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,785
recall having just a big
impact on your time here?

913
00:35:52,785 --> 00:35:54,705
>> So definitely Dr. Rachford.

914
00:35:54,705 --> 00:35:58,985
That was the first time
that we had as students,

915
00:35:58,985 --> 00:36:00,820
again, this idea of what is

916
00:36:00,820 --> 00:36:01,930
the university's
responsibility to

917
00:36:01,930 --> 00:36:03,910
provide for the LGBTQ community.

918
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:07,240
We had put in for what
was called at the time,

919
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:08,320
a line item budget,

920
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,850
which is just a
student organization

921
00:36:09,850 --> 00:36:11,185
about to have an annual budget,

922
00:36:11,185 --> 00:36:13,360
similar to student government
association or for

923
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,180
CAB where they have these
large scale budgets.

924
00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:17,380
They didn't have to go
through and ask for.

925
00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:19,525
Graduate Student
Association had one.

926
00:36:19,525 --> 00:36:22,590
We said, well, KPA does a
high level of programming

927
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:23,700
and large scale programming for

928
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:25,695
the whole campus.
We want one too.

929
00:36:25,695 --> 00:36:28,365
I said, well, let's ask.

930
00:36:28,365 --> 00:36:30,585
And so we put in for a budget,

931
00:36:30,585 --> 00:36:31,860
and I started asking
questions about what

932
00:36:31,860 --> 00:36:33,645
are the rules around
putting a budget,

933
00:36:33,645 --> 00:36:38,365
and Dr. Rachford called
me to his office.

934
00:36:38,365 --> 00:36:40,810
Again, I'm a little nobody
who's bounced around

935
00:36:40,810 --> 00:36:42,070
and nobody's ever really
listen to anything

936
00:36:42,070 --> 00:36:43,480
that I've ever had to say.

937
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,550
All of a sudden, now I'm
being called in with

938
00:36:45,550 --> 00:36:48,175
the vice president
of student affairs.

939
00:36:48,175 --> 00:36:50,530
So I'm nervous. But I go into

940
00:36:50,530 --> 00:36:52,600
his office and he sat
down and talked with

941
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,115
me for like an hour and a half

942
00:36:54,115 --> 00:36:56,440
about what are student fees for?

943
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,940
How do budgets work?

944
00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:59,950
Ended up being there
was a moratorium on

945
00:36:59,950 --> 00:37:01,720
line item budgets
because it didn't have

946
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:03,220
rules on how to make
a line item budget,

947
00:37:03,220 --> 00:37:04,600
and they realized
that if one person,

948
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:05,800
everybody could ask
and so they didn't

949
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,330
have a way to manage that.

950
00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:09,070
He sat down and
talked to me for like

951
00:37:09,070 --> 00:37:10,570
an hour and a half in

952
00:37:10,570 --> 00:37:14,470
his office just about
why and how things are.

953
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:16,000
It wasn't just a
know and move on.

954
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,305
Like he really cared
and he asked me,

955
00:37:17,305 --> 00:37:19,180
he's like, What do you think
we should do about budgets?

956
00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:20,440
How do you think we
should allocate?

957
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,455
It was just very
reciprocal and listening.

958
00:37:23,455 --> 00:37:26,395
It was just something
that was very new to me.

959
00:37:26,395 --> 00:37:30,145
And that was this moment of
how do you see leadership?

960
00:37:30,145 --> 00:37:32,260
It's something that still
sticks with me to this day.

961
00:37:32,260 --> 00:37:34,225
There's definitely Dr. Rachford.

962
00:37:34,225 --> 00:37:37,390
Cathy Aldey, she was the
director of student activities.

963
00:37:37,390 --> 00:37:38,470
Poor Cathy, there were

964
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:39,490
so many times I
came to her office,

965
00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:41,245
like, hey, look, here's
this thing I want to do.

966
00:37:41,245 --> 00:37:43,870
Can we do that? And we

967
00:37:43,870 --> 00:37:46,555
barge in on her
office all the time.

968
00:37:46,555 --> 00:37:49,510
She was really supportive
in helping us figure out

969
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:50,800
navigate the politics and

970
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,330
the rules and understanding
what's going on.

971
00:37:52,330 --> 00:37:54,370
I remember those times
where we would be

972
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:57,340
before SBAC requesting
funds and there

973
00:37:57,340 --> 00:37:58,390
was a lot of intricate rules

974
00:37:58,390 --> 00:38:00,025
around how you know
it still is how SBAC

975
00:38:00,025 --> 00:38:01,450
works and what you can
spend money and what you

976
00:38:01,450 --> 00:38:02,860
can't and why you have
to spend the money,

977
00:38:02,860 --> 00:38:04,975
and you have to say certain
things in the right way.

978
00:38:04,975 --> 00:38:06,670
I remember at first
not understanding

979
00:38:06,670 --> 00:38:08,320
and SBAC. She would grill me.

980
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,315
I felt like I was being grilled.

981
00:38:10,315 --> 00:38:12,250
But really, she was trying
to help me understand

982
00:38:12,250 --> 00:38:13,600
the bigger picture and how we

983
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,160
needed to move forward
and getting funding.

984
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,930
She was really supportive.

985
00:38:16,930 --> 00:38:19,180
There was Dr. Teresa Joyce.

986
00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:20,920
She was our advisor
for a lot of years

987
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,180
and to this day we still,

988
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:23,965
I just chatted with
her the other day.

989
00:38:23,965 --> 00:38:25,870
She was by and far,

990
00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:30,700
the first person that
was not related to me.

991
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,490
They had so much
faith in my ability.

992
00:38:33,490 --> 00:38:36,520
She put a lot in me,
a lot of trust in me,

993
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,770
she gave me a lot of latitude

994
00:38:38,770 --> 00:38:40,060
to be able to do a lot of things

995
00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:41,470
and supported some crazy ideas

996
00:38:41,470 --> 00:38:43,030
that I had and she
talked me through them.

997
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:45,220
But that was the first time

998
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:46,810
that I just felt like
I could do things.

999
00:38:46,810 --> 00:38:48,970
Things I have to say matter and

1000
00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:50,890
they can make a change and
people would listen to it,

1001
00:38:50,890 --> 00:38:52,780
and it was her support and

1002
00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:55,405
mentorship that really
provided that for me.

1003
00:38:55,405 --> 00:38:57,400
So there was definitely

1004
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,580
Teresa Joyce, Dr.
Eugenia Whitlock.

1005
00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:03,475
She was my first queer
theory professor.

1006
00:39:03,475 --> 00:39:07,090
She taught, I think the first
queer theory course at KSU,

1007
00:39:07,090 --> 00:39:10,840
she just the it blew my mind.

1008
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,310
Being able to see A, that

1009
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:14,590
my lived experience was not
just my lived experience,

1010
00:39:14,590 --> 00:39:16,780
but a way of understanding
and it can connect to

1011
00:39:16,780 --> 00:39:19,705
academics and change the
way that we see the world.

1012
00:39:19,705 --> 00:39:21,430
So getting exposed to

1013
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:23,290
queer theory for the first
time really challenged me.

1014
00:39:23,290 --> 00:39:24,520
It was my first professor.

1015
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,190
I teach now and I use the
same model that she used on

1016
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:30,355
me to my students because
it was so powerful to me.

1017
00:39:30,355 --> 00:39:32,200
But it was the first class
that I'd ever taken,

1018
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,180
it was a seminar style.

1019
00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:36,460
It was stressful.
She wouldn't grade

1020
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:39,580
papers and people
would stress out.

1021
00:39:39,580 --> 00:39:40,810
She would always say,
if you're here for

1022
00:39:40,810 --> 00:39:42,370
learning and you focus
on your learning,

1023
00:39:42,370 --> 00:39:43,705
your grade will follow.

1024
00:39:43,705 --> 00:39:45,265
Don't stress about your grade,

1025
00:39:45,265 --> 00:39:46,675
focus on your learning.

1026
00:39:46,675 --> 00:39:49,810
And she would ask these
really theoretical questions

1027
00:39:49,810 --> 00:39:52,900
about how and why it
just stuck with me as

1028
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:54,760
really being the first
class I took that was like

1029
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,100
that movie version
of what college is

1030
00:39:57,100 --> 00:40:00,370
about and really about

1031
00:40:00,370 --> 00:40:02,320
here for challenging
the way that we think.

1032
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,970
And so she was very
impactful and then she later

1033
00:40:03,970 --> 00:40:06,070
became the advisor for KPA,

1034
00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:08,080
and so she was my advisor there.

1035
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,940
I later served as
my thesis advisor

1036
00:40:09,940 --> 00:40:11,020
for my master's program.

1037
00:40:11,020 --> 00:40:12,700
So she's just been all through

1038
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:15,160
it really pushing me and
challenging me and think about,

1039
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,890
why and how do systems work and

1040
00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:20,230
how can I use my intellect
to challenge those things.

1041
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:23,270
And she's been really
powerful in that regard.

1042
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,630
I think those are the folks that

1043
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:30,315
stand out the most as
when I was a student.

1044
00:40:30,315 --> 00:40:32,190
There's Dr. Sansiverro.

1045
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:34,050
I remember him taking
long walks with me to

1046
00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:36,255
talk me through how
the university worked

1047
00:40:36,255 --> 00:40:38,100
and how policies are
built and how do you

1048
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:39,840
understand the rules
and the gaps between

1049
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,950
rules and how can you bend
things and accomplish things.

1050
00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:47,105
So Dr. Sansiverro was really
powerful in that way too.

1051
00:40:47,105 --> 00:40:50,440
>> So when did you graduate?

1052
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,610
>> 2010.

1053
00:40:51,610 --> 00:40:54,250
>> 2010. So then you did

1054
00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:56,965
the frame shop and
then you came back.

1055
00:40:56,965 --> 00:40:59,710
>> So I had been doing
framing all through college.

1056
00:40:59,710 --> 00:41:03,100
That was what got
me through college.

1057
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:06,610
And so I was doing that for
a few years after the fact.

1058
00:41:06,610 --> 00:41:08,230
I was managing a frame shop.

1059
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:11,590
I just realized that this I

1060
00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:13,600
was no longer fully
satisfied with doing it.

1061
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,060
I wanted a career and not a job.

1062
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:19,785
And so that's where in 2013,

1063
00:41:19,785 --> 00:41:21,540
it actually it was 2012.

1064
00:41:21,540 --> 00:41:24,015
So it was fall of 2012
when I interviewed for

1065
00:41:24,015 --> 00:41:27,195
the position and then I
started in January 8th,

1066
00:41:27,195 --> 00:41:29,460
2013, was the first day

1067
00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:31,895
that I was a full
time KSU employee.

1068
00:41:31,895 --> 00:41:34,105
Found a way to get
KSU to pay me.

1069
00:41:34,105 --> 00:41:39,730
>> Fantastic. There were a
lot of programs, initiatives,

1070
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:42,430
and events that were

1071
00:41:42,430 --> 00:41:46,220
associated with the
LGBTQ Resource Center.

1072
00:41:46,260 --> 00:41:50,200
Run through a few and you
can share your memories

1073
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,350
about these things
about how it started,

1074
00:41:53,350 --> 00:41:54,730
how involved you were, probably

1075
00:41:54,730 --> 00:41:56,965
a lot because you were there,

1076
00:41:56,965 --> 00:42:01,075
why it was important and how
it maybe changed and grew.

1077
00:42:01,075 --> 00:42:03,580
So one would be the
first celebration of

1078
00:42:03,580 --> 00:42:07,825
LGBTQ History Month at KSU.
Can you talk a little bit?

1079
00:42:07,825 --> 00:42:09,580
>> I had started the position in

1080
00:42:09,580 --> 00:42:13,140
January and I spent a
lot of time thinking

1081
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:15,120
through my own
college experience

1082
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,400
and what were things
that I wanted to

1083
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,900
accomplish as a student
group that just

1084
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:20,730
wasn't really feasible
as a student group or

1085
00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:23,200
things that I thought was

1086
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,150
important and meaningful for

1087
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:26,560
it to come from the institution,

1088
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:27,640
not just from students.

1089
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,950
I think that's where
a lot of my building

1090
00:42:29,950 --> 00:42:31,000
of the center really focused

1091
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,740
on is the meaning that's created

1092
00:42:32,740 --> 00:42:34,840
when something is hosted
by the institution,

1093
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,385
becomes institutionalized,

1094
00:42:36,385 --> 00:42:37,840
especially when you have
an underrepresented

1095
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,940
and at most times invisible

1096
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:42,400
population that could
often be overlooked.

1097
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,540
So what does it mean
when the university

1098
00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:44,950
puts resources in and provides

1099
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:46,540
that representation to empower

1100
00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:48,790
and create belonging
for students.

1101
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:50,920
And really using that
as a line to say,

1102
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:52,000
what are things that
really should be run by

1103
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,560
the student organization
or best coming from

1104
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,870
student voice being
student led and what

1105
00:42:55,870 --> 00:42:56,680
are things that
are important for

1106
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,170
the institution to
have a voice in?

1107
00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:03,115
I never knew there
was LGBTQ history.

1108
00:43:03,115 --> 00:43:06,085
I had never been
taught LGBTQ history,

1109
00:43:06,085 --> 00:43:07,720
but I had started digging in

1110
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:08,950
and trying to figure
out what the history

1111
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:11,425
of student organizations were.

1112
00:43:11,425 --> 00:43:12,190
That was one of
the things that I

1113
00:43:12,190 --> 00:43:13,090
tried to understand what

1114
00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:14,950
had already happened before I

1115
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:16,630
got there and outside of

1116
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:18,460
my own moment and
lived experience,

1117
00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:20,290
when you're 18, the
whole world is very

1118
00:43:20,290 --> 00:43:22,510
much intrinsic to yourself
and what you see.

1119
00:43:22,510 --> 00:43:23,890
So I start to step
out and realize, oh,

1120
00:43:23,890 --> 00:43:25,330
there's people before
me and people who had

1121
00:43:25,330 --> 00:43:27,040
done other really great things
and I needed to know what

1122
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,750
those things were so I

1123
00:43:28,750 --> 00:43:31,765
could necessarily reinvent
the wheel or learn from it.

1124
00:43:31,765 --> 00:43:34,840
And so I started doing that
research and in doing that,

1125
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,450
I started learning
about the Olympics at

1126
00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:38,980
a Cobb and theater on

1127
00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:40,570
the square and different
things that happened.

1128
00:43:40,570 --> 00:43:42,055
So that spiraled out

1129
00:43:42,055 --> 00:43:43,420
to me stepping out
and kind of going,

1130
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:44,905
Wow, there's more
than just stonewall.

1131
00:43:44,905 --> 00:43:46,060
Even then I don't
think I ever really

1132
00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:47,485
knew what stonewall was.

1133
00:43:47,485 --> 00:43:49,135
It had never been taught to me

1134
00:43:49,135 --> 00:43:51,010
and I'm a bit of a nerd anyway.

1135
00:43:51,010 --> 00:43:52,900
I like history and
politics and things.

1136
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:56,305
And so, really think

1137
00:43:56,305 --> 00:43:58,600
like what are things that
university should be doing?

1138
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,670
I'm looking at all these
other heritage and history

1139
00:44:00,670 --> 00:44:01,840
months the university
is doing and

1140
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,445
why do we do those things?

1141
00:44:03,445 --> 00:44:05,560
I said, you know
what? October is

1142
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,690
LGBTQ History Month.
It's a national thing.

1143
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:09,490
It's not something
that I invented.

1144
00:44:09,490 --> 00:44:11,140
I said, well, we
should participate.

1145
00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:12,580
That's something that
university should

1146
00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:15,100
be representing and
participating in.

1147
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:17,140
And so that was one of

1148
00:44:17,140 --> 00:44:19,720
the short list of things
that I wanted to do in

1149
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:21,610
the first 1-3 years of

1150
00:44:21,610 --> 00:44:24,955
the center was to have
involvement LGBTQ History Month.

1151
00:44:24,955 --> 00:44:26,695
I had this really crazy idea.

1152
00:44:26,695 --> 00:44:28,150
This is back when
the center was very

1153
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:29,500
big and I had a lot of time.

1154
00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:32,380
We're still growing and so

1155
00:44:32,380 --> 00:44:35,890
I decided I wanted
to use actual doors.

1156
00:44:35,890 --> 00:44:37,435
I went to Home Depot and bought

1157
00:44:37,435 --> 00:44:40,960
doors to symbolize closet doors.

1158
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,870
Then I took these doors
and I hinged them together

1159
00:44:43,870 --> 00:44:47,740
accordion style and
each door focused,

1160
00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:49,795
painted them different
colors of the rainbow.

1161
00:44:49,795 --> 00:44:51,580
And then each door focused on

1162
00:44:51,580 --> 00:44:54,475
a different moment or
element of LGBTQ history.

1163
00:44:54,475 --> 00:44:57,160
So it was the outing doors
opening history exhibit.

1164
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,750
And so it would get put up for

1165
00:44:58,750 --> 00:45:00,115
the entire month of October.

1166
00:45:00,115 --> 00:45:02,260
These doors would get
scattered across campus.

1167
00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:03,775
I was putting queerness

1168
00:45:03,775 --> 00:45:06,100
in all these places that
queerness was not already

1169
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:08,440
existing and
creating this moment

1170
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,520
of this first level interaction

1171
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,065
for other students who maybe

1172
00:45:11,065 --> 00:45:13,585
had never known there was
queer history either.

1173
00:45:13,585 --> 00:45:15,895
To A, get exposed to a
little bit of history,

1174
00:45:15,895 --> 00:45:17,620
maybe, drive some inquiry

1175
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:19,405
and wanting people to know more.

1176
00:45:19,405 --> 00:45:21,220
And then it was also this
visible representation of

1177
00:45:21,220 --> 00:45:24,415
these giant rainbows inside
of different buildings.

1178
00:45:24,415 --> 00:45:26,455
So again how does that visit to,

1179
00:45:26,455 --> 00:45:28,450
how do you make visible
and invisible population

1180
00:45:28,450 --> 00:45:29,785
without outing anybody?

1181
00:45:29,785 --> 00:45:33,310
And so using the doors
as a way to do that.

1182
00:45:33,310 --> 00:45:35,740
And so our first door was on

1183
00:45:35,740 --> 00:45:39,820
the history of the
LGBTQ community at KSU.

1184
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:41,290
I'd reached out to a Lum

1185
00:45:41,290 --> 00:45:43,060
and started building
relationships and asking

1186
00:45:43,060 --> 00:45:45,340
questions and then falling

1187
00:45:45,340 --> 00:45:46,360
on some big moments and then

1188
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:47,710
the idea was that every year,

1189
00:45:47,710 --> 00:45:49,945
we would add a couple
doors to the exhibit.

1190
00:45:49,945 --> 00:45:51,790
So it would be this
growing exhibit when we

1191
00:45:51,790 --> 00:45:53,725
just keep adding more doors so

1192
00:45:53,725 --> 00:45:58,030
um really cool
project, say curated.

1193
00:45:58,030 --> 00:46:00,250
That's always decided you
just throw that around.

1194
00:46:00,250 --> 00:46:05,470
But it was really powerful
for me to help people

1195
00:46:05,470 --> 00:46:07,240
realize and help
myself realize in

1196
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:08,920
the same moment that

1197
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,885
people came before
us. You're not alone.

1198
00:46:10,885 --> 00:46:12,970
There's things and
there's reasons

1199
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:15,610
for why the world is
the way it is today,

1200
00:46:15,610 --> 00:46:18,970
people have accomplished things
and you're not the first.

1201
00:46:18,970 --> 00:46:19,990
That sometimes can be really

1202
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:22,090
grounding to not
feel so isolated,

1203
00:46:22,090 --> 00:46:23,620
particularly if you're not out.

1204
00:46:23,620 --> 00:46:26,140
And so I thought that
that was really powerful,

1205
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:29,110
to be able to expose
those stories

1206
00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:31,165
on campus for folks because

1207
00:46:31,165 --> 00:46:33,325
queer history is a
unique thing in that.

1208
00:46:33,325 --> 00:46:36,070
It's really only history

1209
00:46:36,070 --> 00:46:38,800
that isn't taught in
home or at school.

1210
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,540
It's just not covered anywhere,

1211
00:46:40,540 --> 00:46:43,960
so most queer folks don't
grow up in queer families.

1212
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,250
And so there's not that heritage

1213
00:46:45,250 --> 00:46:46,420
that history that's passed down,

1214
00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:48,130
that way of knowing, and

1215
00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:49,540
so it can lead to a
lot of isolation.

1216
00:46:49,540 --> 00:46:50,665
So that was something
that I thought was a

1217
00:46:50,665 --> 00:46:52,570
quick, not necessarily easy,

1218
00:46:52,570 --> 00:46:54,400
but quick way to
be able to address

1219
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,550
a core issue that our community
was facing on campus.

1220
00:46:57,550 --> 00:47:01,030
>> Great. And so that's
something that came back in

1221
00:47:01,030 --> 00:47:04,435
later years that they
repeated the draws.

1222
00:47:04,435 --> 00:47:06,130
>> I don't know that
anything's been added to it.

1223
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:08,560
I added it for I think two,

1224
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,390
maybe three years personally.

1225
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:12,520
I literally borrowed a KUS van,

1226
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:13,810
went to Home Depot,
picked it up,

1227
00:47:13,810 --> 00:47:15,220
took it to my home, used my own,

1228
00:47:15,220 --> 00:47:18,940
it was very much a labor
of love and painting and

1229
00:47:18,940 --> 00:47:20,980
creating and doing
the research and

1230
00:47:20,980 --> 00:47:23,905
getting the images and the
captioning and all of that.

1231
00:47:23,905 --> 00:47:26,350
But very labor intensive.

1232
00:47:26,350 --> 00:47:28,990
And as other areas
the department grew,

1233
00:47:28,990 --> 00:47:30,775
there's only 40 hours in a week.

1234
00:47:30,775 --> 00:47:32,110
And so it was
something that became

1235
00:47:32,110 --> 00:47:33,850
increasingly having more of

1236
00:47:33,850 --> 00:47:35,095
a challenge to be
able to expand that.

1237
00:47:35,095 --> 00:47:37,000
I don't know that more
doors have been added.

1238
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,560
I know I think I added it for

1239
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,575
maybe one or two additional
years personally.

1240
00:47:41,575 --> 00:47:43,015
Then after that, I
didn't add anymore.

1241
00:47:43,015 --> 00:47:44,260
We explored going digital,

1242
00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:46,825
but there was budget issues
and things like that.

1243
00:47:46,825 --> 00:47:51,190
>> Another thing
that KSU did for

1244
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:52,735
the first time in 2013

1245
00:47:52,735 --> 00:47:54,985
was to walk in the
Atlanta Pride Parade.

1246
00:47:54,985 --> 00:47:56,260
>> Yeah. That was a fun one.

1247
00:47:56,260 --> 00:47:58,270
So historically, it was not

1248
00:47:58,270 --> 00:48:00,865
the first time KSU
had been or KPA,

1249
00:48:00,865 --> 00:48:02,665
KPA used to walk in the parade.

1250
00:48:02,665 --> 00:48:04,930
So the student organization.

1251
00:48:04,930 --> 00:48:07,480
And that was something
that happened after

1252
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,640
I was involved in KPA
because I very much,

1253
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,320
again, we're all centered in

1254
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,150
our own ways of knowing
in our own feelings,

1255
00:48:13,150 --> 00:48:15,680
at the time didn't have
a lot of reflection.

1256
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,140
My perspective of when
I was in leadership in

1257
00:48:20,140 --> 00:48:22,735
KPA was that folks wanted
to go and watch the parade,

1258
00:48:22,735 --> 00:48:25,000
especially if you're
18-years-old,

1259
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,155
it's the first time being out.

1260
00:48:26,155 --> 00:48:27,340
You've never gone to
the parade before.

1261
00:48:27,340 --> 00:48:29,890
You want to participate
and view it and

1262
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:31,210
have that larger experience

1263
00:48:31,210 --> 00:48:33,440
compared to actually
walking in it.

1264
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:37,660
After I had left KPA,

1265
00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:39,325
they started walking
in it as a group,

1266
00:48:39,325 --> 00:48:41,125
a student organization
to be represented.

1267
00:48:41,125 --> 00:48:42,730
But then when I came on board,

1268
00:48:42,730 --> 00:48:44,920
I said, students
shouldn't have to pick.

1269
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,600
If they want to watch
it, they can watch it.

1270
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,055
If they want to march in
it, they can march in it.

1271
00:48:48,055 --> 00:48:49,435
But what does it mean

1272
00:48:49,435 --> 00:48:51,295
when it's not the
students on their own,

1273
00:48:51,295 --> 00:48:53,455
but the institution
is backing them?

1274
00:48:53,455 --> 00:48:54,370
And it's not uncommon for

1275
00:48:54,370 --> 00:48:56,560
institutions to
march in parades.

1276
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,110
And so I felt like that was
another one of those moments

1277
00:48:59,110 --> 00:49:01,870
where meaning was made for to

1278
00:49:01,870 --> 00:49:03,370
come for the institution
and not from

1279
00:49:03,370 --> 00:49:04,480
the student organization since

1280
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:05,845
the student organization can

1281
00:49:05,845 --> 00:49:07,870
sometimes feel like they're
doing things in isolation of

1282
00:49:07,870 --> 00:49:10,660
the university and having
to build on their own.

1283
00:49:10,660 --> 00:49:11,710
So I thought that was a moment

1284
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:14,605
where students should
see their institution,

1285
00:49:14,605 --> 00:49:16,180
that this place that
they're told over

1286
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:17,680
and over again that they're
part of our nation,

1287
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:18,790
that they should belong here,

1288
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:20,785
that there's a sense of
school spirit and pride.

1289
00:49:20,785 --> 00:49:22,300
They make sure that
they understand

1290
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,000
their experience is
part of that, too.

1291
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,920
And so having the
institution walk in

1292
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,995
the parade was something that
I felt was really powerful.

1293
00:49:29,995 --> 00:49:31,960
So the first year it was

1294
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,240
a group of us with
a banner walking.

1295
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:38,170
But the second year, the
thing I'm proud about with

1296
00:49:38,170 --> 00:49:40,870
the parade is that we
worked with parking

1297
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:43,450
and transportation and
actually got the BOB bus.

1298
00:49:43,450 --> 00:49:46,270
It's not a big bus,
but BOB in the parade.

1299
00:49:46,270 --> 00:49:48,130
We were the only university to

1300
00:49:48,130 --> 00:49:50,680
have a vehicle in the parade,

1301
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,945
and not just a
vehicle, but the BOB.

1302
00:49:52,945 --> 00:49:55,225
I mean, the BOB
leaves an impression.

1303
00:49:55,225 --> 00:49:55,670
>> Yeah.

1304
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:57,265
>> The black and gold
and all of that.

1305
00:49:57,265 --> 00:49:59,770
Ever since then we've walked
with the BOB in the parade,

1306
00:49:59,770 --> 00:50:01,120
and we provide
shuttle service, too.

1307
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,160
So we realized that we're
outside the perimeter.

1308
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,560
And so students don't
always have transportation.

1309
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,345
They may not be as familiar with

1310
00:50:07,345 --> 00:50:10,225
being inside the perimeter
and going into midtown.

1311
00:50:10,225 --> 00:50:11,860
So it was a way to provide

1312
00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:13,585
support for all students
to be able to go,

1313
00:50:13,585 --> 00:50:14,560
whether they had a vehicle or

1314
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,120
not because we
also have a lot of

1315
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,340
socio-economically
disadvantaged students because

1316
00:50:18,340 --> 00:50:18,970
their parents may not

1317
00:50:18,970 --> 00:50:21,265
be supporting them
within the community.

1318
00:50:21,265 --> 00:50:22,750
So they may not have
cars, insurance,

1319
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:24,715
all these other things
and ways to participate.

1320
00:50:24,715 --> 00:50:25,900
So we thought it was
important too that

1321
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:27,625
we provided the transportation.

1322
00:50:27,625 --> 00:50:29,560
So we provide
transportation to and from

1323
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,510
Atlanta Pride on a
loop of shuttle system

1324
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:33,880
coming from both now
the Kennesaw area

1325
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,290
to campus down to Pride,

1326
00:50:35,290 --> 00:50:36,730
so all students can participate.

1327
00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:37,780
Whether they want to
walk in the parade or

1328
00:50:37,780 --> 00:50:38,860
not, it's not just the parade,

1329
00:50:38,860 --> 00:50:39,310
they get to go for

1330
00:50:39,310 --> 00:50:41,170
the whole weekend and
then really truly

1331
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:44,020
feel that experience of
community that Pride brings,

1332
00:50:44,020 --> 00:50:46,345
that they should be able to
participate in that fully.

1333
00:50:46,345 --> 00:50:48,115
We would host a booth
down there too.

1334
00:50:48,115 --> 00:50:49,390
So students had a
place that they could

1335
00:50:49,390 --> 00:50:51,040
come and have a home base.

1336
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,770
So we would sponsor a
booth in the marketplace.

1337
00:50:53,770 --> 00:50:56,200
So really a full
scale engagement,

1338
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:57,970
which really rivaled and
actually exceeded a lot

1339
00:50:57,970 --> 00:51:01,105
of the participation of
Atlanta based universities.

1340
00:51:01,105 --> 00:51:02,320
And so that was a big part of

1341
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,310
Pride for us because
a lot of times

1342
00:51:03,310 --> 00:51:04,390
Kennesaw is seen as this little

1343
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:05,890
school outside the perimeter,

1344
00:51:05,890 --> 00:51:07,975
and people don't always
take us very seriously,

1345
00:51:07,975 --> 00:51:10,120
especially when we talk
about Atlanta being

1346
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,070
the home and the base

1347
00:51:12,070 --> 00:51:13,840
of queer community
in the Southeast.

1348
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,820
And so for us to be
little Kennesaw,

1349
00:51:15,820 --> 00:51:17,290
coming up there, showing up with

1350
00:51:17,290 --> 00:51:18,730
the big guys was really fun.

1351
00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:21,100
And something I took a
lot of fun and pride in.

1352
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:25,175
>> Speaking of that, are there
any other pride events in

1353
00:51:25,175 --> 00:51:29,875
the region or locally that
KSU goes to or has been to?

1354
00:51:29,875 --> 00:51:31,570
>> So at one year,

1355
00:51:31,570 --> 00:51:37,915
my first year I went to I think
it was in South Carolina.

1356
00:51:37,915 --> 00:51:39,895
I went to a Pride
event up there,

1357
00:51:39,895 --> 00:51:41,590
did like a recruitment fair.

1358
00:51:41,590 --> 00:51:46,240
So Campus Pride holds college
recruitment fairs at Pride.

1359
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:49,120
And so I went ahead and I
drove up there and did that.

1360
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,830
But other than that,
I'm not aware of

1361
00:51:50,830 --> 00:51:53,155
any other Pride
events that we go to.

1362
00:51:53,155 --> 00:51:54,595
>> Atlanta is the main one?

1363
00:51:54,595 --> 00:51:56,240
>> Yeah.

1364
00:51:56,610 --> 00:51:59,800
>> One thing I wanted
to ask about was

1365
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,420
the Coming Out Monologues

1366
00:52:01,420 --> 00:52:03,340
at the Theater and
Performance Studies.

1367
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:06,430
That was a project that
you brought to TPS.

1368
00:52:06,430 --> 00:52:08,140
>> Yeah. So again,

1369
00:52:08,140 --> 00:52:10,510
Jessica asks crazy questions
and tries to do things

1370
00:52:10,510 --> 00:52:13,465
that are far beyond her
ability, but says, why not?

1371
00:52:13,465 --> 00:52:16,660
And so I had seen other
universities again,

1372
00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:18,880
researching what other
universities were doing.

1373
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,300
I think UC Riverside does
a really big Coming Out.

1374
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:23,590
I think is where it
originates from,

1375
00:52:23,590 --> 00:52:25,465
if my memory serves
me correctly.

1376
00:52:25,465 --> 00:52:27,670
This idea of the Coming
Out monologues and

1377
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:30,220
that's modeled off the idea
of The Vagina Monologues,

1378
00:52:30,220 --> 00:52:33,805
and so other universities do it.

1379
00:52:33,805 --> 00:52:35,500
Either students will write

1380
00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:38,660
their monologues and then
perform their own monologues.

1381
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:41,200
Which is a really great way of

1382
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,510
again sharing voice
and experience.

1383
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:46,990
For KSU, again, really
looking at the student versus

1384
00:52:46,990 --> 00:52:50,440
the institution obligation
is a big deciding factor.

1385
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:55,960
I said, well, what if we do
it as the resource center?

1386
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,910
So first it started
off with this idea

1387
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:59,710
very similar to how
UC Riverside does it

1388
00:52:59,710 --> 00:53:03,010
in terms of I wanted to
use the theater, though.

1389
00:53:03,010 --> 00:53:04,270
I've seen other
universities record

1390
00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:05,605
it and they were doing
it in a classroom.

1391
00:53:05,605 --> 00:53:08,500
And I said, I want my
students to feel legit.

1392
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:10,750
It is a full scale production.

1393
00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:14,290
And so I knowing nothing
about how to edit.

1394
00:53:14,290 --> 00:53:17,605
I was in Harvey once in high
school and I had one line.

1395
00:53:17,605 --> 00:53:20,830
I have no idea how to do
theater or what I was doing,

1396
00:53:20,830 --> 00:53:22,885
but I did want to
reserve a space,

1397
00:53:22,885 --> 00:53:24,040
and so I was trying
to go into the

1398
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,095
reservation system and
reserve a theater,

1399
00:53:26,095 --> 00:53:28,120
which apparently is not
a thing you can do.

1400
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:29,620
And so people
called me and said,

1401
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:30,775
what are you trying to do?

1402
00:53:30,775 --> 00:53:33,205
Why are you trying to book
a theater and who are you?

1403
00:53:33,205 --> 00:53:35,440
And so I was like,

1404
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:36,955
this is the idea that I had.

1405
00:53:36,955 --> 00:53:39,355
And so they connected
me with Karen.

1406
00:53:39,355 --> 00:53:41,860
The Box Office connected
me over to Karen and said,

1407
00:53:41,860 --> 00:53:44,005
I think you really should
talk to Karen about this.

1408
00:53:44,005 --> 00:53:45,850
And so her and I met.

1409
00:53:45,850 --> 00:53:48,070
Again, since I was a
very young professional,

1410
00:53:48,070 --> 00:53:50,635
had no idea what I was
doing, but I said, why not?

1411
00:53:50,635 --> 00:53:52,540
Went and talked to her. I
said, I have this idea.

1412
00:53:52,540 --> 00:53:54,490
I want to do these monologues.

1413
00:53:54,490 --> 00:53:56,440
I want students to
expose the campus

1414
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,825
to what does the coming
out experience look like?

1415
00:53:58,825 --> 00:54:00,610
I want students to feel
like they're heard

1416
00:54:00,610 --> 00:54:01,825
and represented and seen

1417
00:54:01,825 --> 00:54:04,960
and I want to give the respect
that I think that's due.

1418
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,170
And to me that means
having it in a theater.

1419
00:54:08,170 --> 00:54:09,790
And so her and I worked

1420
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:12,370
together and the
project ended evolving

1421
00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:15,295
into where students we

1422
00:54:15,295 --> 00:54:17,320
collect the stories from
the campus community.

1423
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:18,970
So if we open up
where people can

1424
00:54:18,970 --> 00:54:20,590
call and do a submission
for monologues,

1425
00:54:20,590 --> 00:54:22,120
it was really
important to me that

1426
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:23,650
the stories that are told during

1427
00:54:23,650 --> 00:54:25,120
the coming out
monologues reflect

1428
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,205
KSU community specifically.

1429
00:54:27,205 --> 00:54:29,290
Because I think sometimes
it's very easy,

1430
00:54:29,290 --> 00:54:31,660
especially, I talked to

1431
00:54:31,660 --> 00:54:33,175
Karen about this a
little while ago.

1432
00:54:33,175 --> 00:54:34,570
Back when I was a
student, the University

1433
00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:36,805
did a production of
the Laramie project,

1434
00:54:36,805 --> 00:54:40,600
which is reflective of the
Matthew Shepard story.

1435
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,145
I don't know if you're
familiar or not.

1436
00:54:42,145 --> 00:54:45,415
But in the Laramie project,

1437
00:54:45,415 --> 00:54:46,810
when I went to go
see it on campus,

1438
00:54:46,810 --> 00:54:48,055
there's this line
that kept coming

1439
00:54:48,055 --> 00:54:49,180
out that stood out to
me where people said,

1440
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:50,935
this doesn't happen here.

1441
00:54:50,935 --> 00:54:53,350
Because Matthew Shepard
was murdered for

1442
00:54:53,350 --> 00:54:56,005
being an out queer person.

1443
00:54:56,005 --> 00:54:58,060
And so people say, well,

1444
00:54:58,060 --> 00:54:59,260
they were shocked in Laramie,

1445
00:54:59,260 --> 00:55:00,580
Wyoming this could happen there.

1446
00:55:00,580 --> 00:55:02,500
People don't do that. I felt

1447
00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:04,240
like I heard that a lot of KSU.

1448
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:05,350
That the reason we don't have

1449
00:55:05,350 --> 00:55:06,460
certain things is people
don't do that here.

1450
00:55:06,460 --> 00:55:07,750
That's not a problem
we have here.

1451
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:08,950
That's not something happens,
I'm like well, it doesn't

1452
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:10,375
happen here till it does.

1453
00:55:10,375 --> 00:55:12,745
And so I wanted

1454
00:55:12,745 --> 00:55:15,400
the coming out monologues
to be grounded in

1455
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:16,690
experience that they
couldn't say that

1456
00:55:16,690 --> 00:55:18,070
doesn't happen here because

1457
00:55:18,070 --> 00:55:20,980
these are the coming out
stories of KSU people.

1458
00:55:20,980 --> 00:55:23,275
Whether it's students,
staff, faculty, alumni,

1459
00:55:23,275 --> 00:55:25,870
or larger KSU area,

1460
00:55:25,870 --> 00:55:27,640
you can't deny these stories

1461
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,485
because they're written
by people who are here.

1462
00:55:29,485 --> 00:55:31,525
It's about something that
was really important to me.

1463
00:55:31,525 --> 00:55:33,115
But then we're also saying,

1464
00:55:33,115 --> 00:55:34,420
we want the full
scale production,

1465
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:35,440
for doing it in a theater,

1466
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,150
we need the acting to meet that.

1467
00:55:37,150 --> 00:55:38,620
And so students are not

1468
00:55:38,620 --> 00:55:40,705
necessarily allowed to
perform their own stories.

1469
00:55:40,705 --> 00:55:43,510
We actually hold auditions in
the theater department and

1470
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:45,595
student actors come in

1471
00:55:45,595 --> 00:55:48,235
and do a reading
of the monologues.

1472
00:55:48,235 --> 00:55:51,370
So it gets a full scale
production of the acting level,

1473
00:55:51,370 --> 00:55:52,780
the lighting, the production,

1474
00:55:52,780 --> 00:55:54,640
the space to really

1475
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,130
elevate and give a full level
of respect to what does it

1476
00:55:57,130 --> 00:55:58,720
mean to be out or to come out or

1477
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:00,370
to reconcile or be challenged by

1478
00:56:00,370 --> 00:56:03,640
coming out in the KSU community?

1479
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,610
So I think it's a really cool
balance of very intimate,

1480
00:56:06,610 --> 00:56:08,710
very localized
experiences, but also very

1481
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:10,975
public and very
professionally production.

1482
00:56:10,975 --> 00:56:13,150
I think the overlay
and interplay of

1483
00:56:13,150 --> 00:56:15,190
those two aspects of
experience creates

1484
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:17,200
something really special that

1485
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,260
I had a lot of involvement in
the first couple of years.

1486
00:56:20,260 --> 00:56:21,790
But, I mean, Karen and

1487
00:56:21,790 --> 00:56:24,340
her team really took
ownership of it and

1488
00:56:24,340 --> 00:56:26,470
really understood the
function and the purpose and

1489
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:28,960
have done a wonderful job
growing that program.

1490
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,870
>> That's wonderful. So you

1491
00:56:31,870 --> 00:56:34,090
mentioned the Safe
Space Initiative

1492
00:56:34,090 --> 00:56:37,135
earlier and later that became

1493
00:56:37,135 --> 00:56:40,855
or involved the Safe Space
Student Leadership Initiative.

1494
00:56:40,855 --> 00:56:42,730
So did that come about while you

1495
00:56:42,730 --> 00:56:45,490
were heading up the
Resource Center?

1496
00:56:45,490 --> 00:56:47,650
>> Yeah. So the Safe
Space Initiative at

1497
00:56:47,650 --> 00:56:50,080
KSU far preceded me.

1498
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,390
It had gone through a couple
of different iterations and

1499
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:54,670
using different models
to talk about how do we

1500
00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:57,850
train people for competency

1501
00:56:57,850 --> 00:57:00,950
and understanding around
LGBTQ issues and topics,

1502
00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:03,405
is the broad level
of a safe space,

1503
00:57:03,405 --> 00:57:04,590
is how do we create

1504
00:57:04,590 --> 00:57:06,945
a more inclusive environment
around queerness.

1505
00:57:06,945 --> 00:57:08,940
And so that far preceded me.

1506
00:57:08,940 --> 00:57:12,750
But one thing I did encounter
when I came to campus in

1507
00:57:12,750 --> 00:57:15,505
the professional
capacity was that

1508
00:57:15,505 --> 00:57:16,900
in the interim between
when I left as

1509
00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:18,610
a student and came back
as a professional,

1510
00:57:18,610 --> 00:57:20,710
a group of students
had started doing

1511
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:23,695
student safe space where
they were going in.

1512
00:57:23,695 --> 00:57:25,240
They didn't necessarily
have an agreement

1513
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,070
with the curriculum of

1514
00:57:27,070 --> 00:57:28,300
the Safe Space program from

1515
00:57:28,300 --> 00:57:29,290
an institutional level and so

1516
00:57:29,290 --> 00:57:30,805
they created their own thing.

1517
00:57:30,805 --> 00:57:33,400
And we're going into classrooms
and providing training,

1518
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:34,270
which is wonderful, great and

1519
00:57:34,270 --> 00:57:35,590
students should be
empowered to do that.

1520
00:57:35,590 --> 00:57:36,790
I had a concern though,

1521
00:57:36,790 --> 00:57:38,800
that it's using the same
language and the same naming,

1522
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,030
and so those curriculums
are not in alignment,

1523
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:43,290
it may create more confusion
on campus about what

1524
00:57:43,290 --> 00:57:45,510
is the official safe
space position or

1525
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:46,980
curriculum and things that
we're wanting to teach

1526
00:57:46,980 --> 00:57:48,660
folks or that there's

1527
00:57:48,660 --> 00:57:50,040
two different sets of
trainings going on.

1528
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,810
And so I'd ask them, keep
doing what you're doing,

1529
00:57:51,810 --> 00:57:52,860
but we just need to stop using

1530
00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:55,130
the name Safe Space
on that right now.

1531
00:57:55,130 --> 00:57:58,360
And then as the department grew,

1532
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,280
so Safe Space in
general we would do

1533
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,770
student safe spaces
through the department,

1534
00:58:02,770 --> 00:58:04,690
and then we would do staff
faculty safe spaces.

1535
00:58:04,690 --> 00:58:06,190
But staff and faculty
and students were

1536
00:58:06,190 --> 00:58:08,125
never in the same
safe space training.

1537
00:58:08,125 --> 00:58:10,540
Just the way that
power dynamics work.

1538
00:58:10,540 --> 00:58:12,505
If you look at ways
that people learn,

1539
00:58:12,505 --> 00:58:14,110
you have students who
want to show off to

1540
00:58:14,110 --> 00:58:15,790
staff and faculty that
they know everything,

1541
00:58:15,790 --> 00:58:16,390
and then you have staff and

1542
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:17,410
faculty who don't want to admit

1543
00:58:17,410 --> 00:58:19,225
that they don't know something
in front of a student.

1544
00:58:19,225 --> 00:58:21,220
So it didn't create a
positive dynamic for learning

1545
00:58:21,220 --> 00:58:22,780
an honest dialogue about things

1546
00:58:22,780 --> 00:58:24,685
that are sometimes
uncomfortable to talk about.

1547
00:58:24,685 --> 00:58:27,655
So we always kept
those things isolated.

1548
00:58:27,655 --> 00:58:29,890
But I also was one person,

1549
00:58:29,890 --> 00:58:33,280
and then I had eventually
a program coordinator,

1550
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,290
it was office of
two for a campus

1551
00:58:35,290 --> 00:58:38,035
of at the time probably 35,000.

1552
00:58:38,035 --> 00:58:41,305
That's a lot of training to
try to do and facilitate.

1553
00:58:41,305 --> 00:58:43,210
And so we eventually

1554
00:58:43,210 --> 00:58:45,595
created the Safe Space Student
Leadership Initiative,

1555
00:58:45,595 --> 00:58:48,670
which was a two birds
and one stone initiative

1556
00:58:48,670 --> 00:58:51,850
where we realize that students
learn best from peers,

1557
00:58:51,850 --> 00:58:54,295
especially in topics
that are uncomfortable

1558
00:58:54,295 --> 00:58:56,530
and they are seen as

1559
00:58:56,530 --> 00:58:59,110
different divides in
generational understanding.

1560
00:58:59,110 --> 00:59:00,850
And queerness is one of
those things that there's

1561
00:59:00,850 --> 00:59:03,670
a challenge with the
old way of thinking,

1562
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:04,960
the new way of thinking and

1563
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,405
changes experiences for culture.

1564
00:59:07,405 --> 00:59:09,820
And so the Safe Space Student
Leadership Initiative

1565
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:11,110
allowed us to transfer

1566
00:59:11,110 --> 00:59:14,845
responsibility for student
focused Safe Space trainings

1567
00:59:14,845 --> 00:59:16,390
to be peer facilitated.

1568
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:17,980
So students were
teaching other students

1569
00:59:17,980 --> 00:59:19,525
about the Safe Space Initiative.

1570
00:59:19,525 --> 00:59:23,755
And so we started a cohort
of training those group of

1571
00:59:23,755 --> 00:59:26,365
eight students to be
able to go out and

1572
00:59:26,365 --> 00:59:29,500
teach the Safe Space
curriculum to other students.

1573
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:30,940
Go out in to
classrooms. A lot of

1574
00:59:30,940 --> 00:59:32,545
it was is professors
where like, Hey,

1575
00:59:32,545 --> 00:59:34,630
we're reading this
book and it covers

1576
00:59:34,630 --> 00:59:35,380
queerness and we want

1577
00:59:35,380 --> 00:59:36,640
our students to know
more about that.

1578
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,185
Can you come in
and do a training

1579
00:59:38,185 --> 00:59:40,165
and do some
information building?

1580
00:59:40,165 --> 00:59:42,415
And so our students will go
out and facilitate that.

1581
00:59:42,415 --> 00:59:44,500
At the same time,
it was a way for us

1582
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:47,125
to invest leadership
development in students.

1583
00:59:47,125 --> 00:59:50,140
So that's all service work
should be reciprocal,

1584
00:59:50,140 --> 00:59:51,535
and I think our
students sometimes get

1585
00:59:51,535 --> 00:59:53,215
asked to do a lot of things.

1586
00:59:53,215 --> 00:59:56,170
And so we couldn't pay our
students to do this training,

1587
00:59:56,170 --> 00:59:58,525
but we could invest our
time and energy into them.

1588
00:59:58,525 --> 01:00:00,970
And so we did a lot
of skill development

1589
01:00:00,970 --> 01:00:03,460
and leadership development,
realistic self appraisal.

1590
01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:05,395
So that's where it
was this two set.

1591
01:00:05,395 --> 01:00:06,850
They went down and did
service on behalf of

1592
01:00:06,850 --> 01:00:08,380
the institution and
we invested a lot of

1593
01:00:08,380 --> 01:00:10,735
resources into them
to help them be

1594
01:00:10,735 --> 01:00:14,890
strong leaders and take this
real applications they did.

1595
01:00:14,890 --> 01:00:16,990
They did project management
presentation skills,

1596
01:00:16,990 --> 01:00:19,090
communication,
timeline management,

1597
01:00:19,090 --> 01:00:20,620
all these really great
things that they learned

1598
01:00:20,620 --> 01:00:22,000
as part of SSLI,

1599
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,530
and then we were able to
help them make that to

1600
01:00:23,530 --> 01:00:26,305
a transferable skill
when they left KSU.

1601
01:00:26,305 --> 01:00:28,840
It was a great balance.
And we got to get

1602
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:30,190
exposure to more
people on campus

1603
01:00:30,190 --> 01:00:31,915
because we had a higher
level of capacity.

1604
01:00:31,915 --> 01:00:34,630
>> And that group still exists
and still doing that work?

1605
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:38,725
>> No. So we've had a
lot of restructuring.

1606
01:00:38,725 --> 01:00:40,270
I think they're
right now evaluating

1607
01:00:40,270 --> 01:00:41,470
how do they bring that back.

1608
01:00:41,470 --> 01:00:45,385
So we took the SSLI model and

1609
01:00:45,385 --> 01:00:46,870
it evolved in what we now

1610
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:50,380
call the cultural.
What do they call it?

1611
01:00:50,380 --> 01:00:54,895
CCP. I don't remember
what CCP stands for.

1612
01:00:54,895 --> 01:00:56,680
But it's a similar idea where

1613
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,720
students being
trained to do DEI,

1614
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,130
Diversity Equity and
Inclusion training.

1615
01:01:00,130 --> 01:01:03,775
So whereas SSLI focus very
specifically on safe space,

1616
01:01:03,775 --> 01:01:07,450
CCP is a broader
initiative that also

1617
01:01:07,450 --> 01:01:11,755
does all cultural
competency development.

1618
01:01:11,755 --> 01:01:14,440
And so SSLI is supposed
to be folded into that,

1619
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:15,400
and we're still working on what

1620
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:16,855
that curriculum looks like.

1621
01:01:16,855 --> 01:01:18,490
But that's the way
to move it forward.

1622
01:01:18,490 --> 01:01:20,080
Instead of having a
bunch of these peer

1623
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,555
facilitated DEI
ambassador programs,

1624
01:01:22,555 --> 01:01:24,430
why don't we leverage and
put some synergy to put

1625
01:01:24,430 --> 01:01:25,885
all those resources together

1626
01:01:25,885 --> 01:01:28,030
and then offer those trainings?

1627
01:01:28,030 --> 01:01:31,640
So it's semi. It's morphed.

1628
01:01:32,370 --> 01:01:36,910
>> So Stonewall Housing
started I think in 2014.

1629
01:01:36,910 --> 01:01:39,295
So was that something that
you were involved with?

1630
01:01:39,295 --> 01:01:40,930
>> Very extremely.

1631
01:01:40,930 --> 01:01:42,580
Yeah. So that was another one of

1632
01:01:42,580 --> 01:01:44,770
those short list of things
that I wanted to address.

1633
01:01:44,770 --> 01:01:47,065
So while I didn't live
on campus as a student,

1634
01:01:47,065 --> 01:01:48,535
I had a lot of friends who did.

1635
01:01:48,535 --> 01:01:51,160
And along that
same vein of like,

1636
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:52,315
this doesn't happen here,

1637
01:01:52,315 --> 01:01:54,040
I had heard some
pretty bad stories of

1638
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:55,840
what some of my friends
had experienced from

1639
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,190
their roommates about
being afraid to be

1640
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:59,050
out in their dorm

1641
01:01:59,050 --> 01:02:02,770
and true fear that if
their roommates found out,

1642
01:02:02,770 --> 01:02:05,605
particularly, for some
of my gay male friends,

1643
01:02:05,605 --> 01:02:07,870
that if their straight
roommates found

1644
01:02:07,870 --> 01:02:10,465
out that they were gay and
they're sharing a bathroom,

1645
01:02:10,465 --> 01:02:12,880
they were terrified to be out.

1646
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,540
And so that was to me not a
positive campus experience.

1647
01:02:16,540 --> 01:02:17,455
That thing that
you're supposed to

1648
01:02:17,455 --> 01:02:18,745
get from living on campus,

1649
01:02:18,745 --> 01:02:20,350
you're supposed to get this
higher level of engagement,

1650
01:02:20,350 --> 01:02:21,880
connection to the institution.

1651
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,140
It has positive impacts on

1652
01:02:23,140 --> 01:02:24,760
retention, all
these great things.

1653
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,300
But if you're terrified
to be yourself at home,

1654
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:30,565
are you really
getting that benefit?

1655
01:02:30,565 --> 01:02:36,010
And so that story is really
what drove me to say,

1656
01:02:36,010 --> 01:02:38,770
okay, well, this is another
area where this falls

1657
01:02:38,770 --> 01:02:40,210
under institution
responsibility,

1658
01:02:40,210 --> 01:02:41,875
not student responsibility.

1659
01:02:41,875 --> 01:02:43,750
Me being the ambassador
of the institution

1660
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:45,970
responsibility as
the coordinator,

1661
01:02:45,970 --> 01:02:48,640
I started to talk to my
friends in housing and say,

1662
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,395
Hey, got an idea.

1663
01:02:50,395 --> 01:02:52,780
A lot of things started just
like, Hey, I have an idea.

1664
01:02:52,780 --> 01:02:55,240
What would happen if
and just really asking

1665
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,135
questions and being really
supported along the way.

1666
01:02:58,135 --> 01:03:01,030
And so I found out

1667
01:03:01,030 --> 01:03:03,970
that the year prior to me
coming back as a professional,

1668
01:03:03,970 --> 01:03:06,535
students had tried to take
that responsibility on.

1669
01:03:06,535 --> 01:03:11,740
So there was a organization
that had grown out of KPA,

1670
01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:14,350
called the Non-normative
Anti-assimilation

1671
01:03:14,350 --> 01:03:16,070
of students of Kennesaw.

1672
01:03:16,070 --> 01:03:21,015
They had worked with
housing previously and had

1673
01:03:21,015 --> 01:03:23,220
secured a floor of

1674
01:03:23,220 --> 01:03:25,050
gender inclusive
housing inside of

1675
01:03:25,050 --> 01:03:26,940
what is now the Austin
Residence Complex.

1676
01:03:26,940 --> 01:03:29,535
It was being built at the
time. It wasn't a thing yet.

1677
01:03:29,535 --> 01:03:32,460
And they had secured

1678
01:03:32,460 --> 01:03:34,590
30 something rooms for

1679
01:03:34,590 --> 01:03:36,960
gender inclusive housing
at a reduced rate.

1680
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:38,985
So housing was really
accommodating,

1681
01:03:38,985 --> 01:03:42,480
but then that's a lot
for students to take on.

1682
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,690
It's hard for professionals
to get some of that stuff

1683
01:03:45,690 --> 01:03:48,930
done to put that on students
who also have their life,

1684
01:03:48,930 --> 01:03:51,480
coursework and actual work

1685
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,640
and all these other
things going on,

1686
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,460
student organizing to expect
them to be able to do that,

1687
01:03:56,460 --> 01:03:57,900
or for them to expect themselves

1688
01:03:57,900 --> 01:03:59,580
to be able to do that
was not realistic.

1689
01:03:59,580 --> 01:04:01,605
So they booked
none of the rooms.

1690
01:04:01,605 --> 01:04:06,645
So it was not a good position
for housing to be in.

1691
01:04:06,645 --> 01:04:08,040
They need to sell these rooms

1692
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,735
and they've taken them offline.

1693
01:04:09,735 --> 01:04:11,535
So knowing that going in,

1694
01:04:11,535 --> 01:04:12,930
I negotiated with housing for

1695
01:04:12,930 --> 01:04:14,760
us to just have
three apartments.

1696
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,615
If you can give me three
apartments at the standard rate,

1697
01:04:18,615 --> 01:04:21,435
but we can get them taken
offline to be gender inclusive.

1698
01:04:21,435 --> 01:04:22,785
The way that housing
works, as soon as

1699
01:04:22,785 --> 01:04:24,765
one student selects a
room in the apartment,

1700
01:04:24,765 --> 01:04:26,880
the rest of that apartment
gets locked down to

1701
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:27,900
only other students who have

1702
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:30,330
the same gender
marker on their file,

1703
01:04:30,330 --> 01:04:32,760
which is not great
for our trans and

1704
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,370
nonbinary students
because oftentimes

1705
01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:37,770
the gender marker on their
file does not align with

1706
01:04:37,770 --> 01:04:38,790
the way they present

1707
01:04:38,790 --> 01:04:40,530
themselves and the way
that they see the world,

1708
01:04:40,530 --> 01:04:42,510
they want the world to
see them authentically.

1709
01:04:42,510 --> 01:04:43,560
And so I said,

1710
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,405
"Let's take three
apartments offline,

1711
01:04:45,405 --> 01:04:49,020
and let me place students
on those rooms."

1712
01:04:49,020 --> 01:04:50,895
And so that was 12 beds,

1713
01:04:50,895 --> 01:04:53,355
and we called it
Stonewall Housing

1714
01:04:53,355 --> 01:04:57,330
in recognition of the
Stonewall riots that happened,

1715
01:04:57,330 --> 01:04:58,830
which is what pride comes from,

1716
01:04:58,830 --> 01:05:00,960
is the annual celebration
of Stonewall riots.

1717
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,995
And we filled the beds
and we had a waitlist.

1718
01:05:04,995 --> 01:05:07,005
And then I think
we grew to 16 bed

1719
01:05:07,005 --> 01:05:08,250
and then we do 32 beds.

1720
01:05:08,250 --> 01:05:10,920
We moved buildings
because we set ourselves

1721
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,650
up to take over an entire
building to have it.

1722
01:05:13,650 --> 01:05:16,020
And if my memory serves,

1723
01:05:16,020 --> 01:05:18,075
we were the first
university to have

1724
01:05:18,075 --> 01:05:22,170
formal gender inclusive
housing on campus.

1725
01:05:22,170 --> 01:05:24,630
So that's those moments

1726
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:27,090
that people were
Kennesaw, we're out here.

1727
01:05:27,090 --> 01:05:28,860
We're not always seen as being

1728
01:05:28,860 --> 01:05:31,785
as progressives inside the city,

1729
01:05:31,785 --> 01:05:33,420
but we were able to
get a lot of really

1730
01:05:33,420 --> 01:05:34,590
cool stuff done in

1731
01:05:34,590 --> 01:05:35,910
a really short period of time

1732
01:05:35,910 --> 01:05:38,085
and be able to grow
and sustain that.

1733
01:05:38,085 --> 01:05:40,425
>> And that was in
the Austin Complex?

1734
01:05:40,425 --> 01:05:43,035
>> So it was originally
in the 1,200 building,

1735
01:05:43,035 --> 01:05:45,390
but now I don't remember.

1736
01:05:45,390 --> 01:05:46,545
I don't know where
it is exactly now,

1737
01:05:46,545 --> 01:05:48,270
but originally it was
1,200 building and

1738
01:05:48,270 --> 01:05:49,050
there's no way
were going to take

1739
01:05:49,050 --> 01:05:49,995
over the 1,200 building then.

1740
01:05:49,995 --> 01:05:52,500
The place is huge. So I think in

1741
01:05:52,500 --> 01:05:53,670
the third year when we got to

1742
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:56,970
the 32 beds, we shifted over.

1743
01:05:56,970 --> 01:06:00,480
So that was in Arc 2, so
we shifted over to Arc 1,

1744
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,465
the older phase, but they
had smaller buildings,

1745
01:06:03,465 --> 01:06:05,400
and so we could actually
build from the floor up.

1746
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,510
So I think the process is

1747
01:06:06,510 --> 01:06:08,040
still occurring where we slowly,

1748
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:09,375
as rooms become open,

1749
01:06:09,375 --> 01:06:11,970
we can turn them over to
being gender inclusive rooms,

1750
01:06:11,970 --> 01:06:13,440
so we can slowly take
over the buildings

1751
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:14,970
without kicking anybody out.

1752
01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:16,665
If students are
already living there,

1753
01:06:16,665 --> 01:06:18,615
they should stay where
they are. They're happy.

1754
01:06:18,615 --> 01:06:20,250
So we can roll
those rooms off and

1755
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:21,900
turn them over into
Stonewall rooms.

1756
01:06:21,900 --> 01:06:23,490
And then after consolidation,

1757
01:06:23,490 --> 01:06:24,780
we were able to secure

1758
01:06:24,780 --> 01:06:26,940
some locations over in
Marietta Campus as well.

1759
01:06:26,940 --> 01:06:29,830
Stonewall does operate
on both campuses.

1760
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,795
>> The rainbow
graduation ceremony

1761
01:06:33,795 --> 01:06:36,130
was another initiative I think?

1762
01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:39,510
>> So that was
something honestly was

1763
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:42,480
just I remember sitting
at my graduation,

1764
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,830
knowing full well how involved
I had been on campus.

1765
01:06:46,830 --> 01:06:48,720
Done a lot of great things,

1766
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,240
put forward different
initiatives,

1767
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,735
held leadership positions,
served on committees.

1768
01:06:54,735 --> 01:06:56,715
I've done a lot of
really cool stuff.

1769
01:06:56,715 --> 01:06:58,500
And selfishly, I was watching

1770
01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:00,180
all these kids walk
across the stage with

1771
01:07:00,180 --> 01:07:01,260
all these ribbons and

1772
01:07:01,260 --> 01:07:04,695
medallions and cords and I
was looking pretty plain.

1773
01:07:04,695 --> 01:07:07,080
And I thought, "That
doesn't seem fair."

1774
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,900
And so again, one of those
things looking at what

1775
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:10,920
is a student's responsibility

1776
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:12,420
to an institution's
responsibility.

1777
01:07:12,420 --> 01:07:13,560
I said, "As an institution,

1778
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:15,090
we should recognize
that students are

1779
01:07:15,090 --> 01:07:17,445
doing all kinds of
things on campus,

1780
01:07:17,445 --> 01:07:20,490
and we should recognize
those experiences

1781
01:07:20,490 --> 01:07:23,250
similar to military students,

1782
01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:26,580
they get the military stoles
and international students,

1783
01:07:26,580 --> 01:07:28,170
they got the stoles with
their flags on them."

1784
01:07:28,170 --> 01:07:29,310
These ways of
representing what their

1785
01:07:29,310 --> 01:07:30,405
experience was like and

1786
01:07:30,405 --> 01:07:31,980
these unique ways that
their experience was

1787
01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:34,155
influenced by their
identity on campus.

1788
01:07:34,155 --> 01:07:36,150
And I said, "Why
can't we do that?"

1789
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:38,325
So rainbow graduation
became a thing.

1790
01:07:38,325 --> 01:07:41,430
We got these custom
made rainbow cords

1791
01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:44,460
done and have a really
big graduation ceremony,

1792
01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:46,365
not big, but for us, it was big.

1793
01:07:46,365 --> 01:07:47,940
I think the first class was six

1794
01:07:47,940 --> 01:07:49,665
students in the leadership room,

1795
01:07:49,665 --> 01:07:52,920
but this way to recognize
that graduation does happen.

1796
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:54,270
You had all these obstacles as

1797
01:07:54,270 --> 01:07:56,100
a queer student that

1798
01:07:56,100 --> 01:07:57,885
you would have gone through
in terms of reconciling,

1799
01:07:57,885 --> 01:07:59,160
understanding yourself
and accepting

1800
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:00,060
yourself and learning to love

1801
01:08:00,060 --> 01:08:01,350
yourself in spite of a society

1802
01:08:01,350 --> 01:08:03,015
that tells you sometimes
you shouldn't.

1803
01:08:03,015 --> 01:08:04,770
Having students who
have gone through

1804
01:08:04,770 --> 01:08:07,230
homelessness and
having their family

1805
01:08:07,230 --> 01:08:09,120
abandon them and still

1806
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,400
show the resiliency,
to get to graduation.

1807
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,720
Graduation is hard enough.

1808
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,685
Getting through college
is hard enough as it is,

1809
01:08:14,685 --> 01:08:17,130
but then to have all
these other layers

1810
01:08:17,130 --> 01:08:19,035
thrown on top of that

1811
01:08:19,035 --> 01:08:20,580
and you still made
it to graduation.

1812
01:08:20,580 --> 01:08:21,900
I think that's
something to celebrate

1813
01:08:21,900 --> 01:08:25,590
and graduation should be
celebrated at convocation,

1814
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:27,480
but there should also
be this moment to

1815
01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:29,700
recognize that unique
set of experiences that

1816
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:31,380
a student has gone through and

1817
01:08:31,380 --> 01:08:33,720
the resiliency that they've
developed and exhibited.

1818
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,370
So that's what rainbow
graduation does,

1819
01:08:35,370 --> 01:08:39,210
and it's for not just
your assigned family,

1820
01:08:39,210 --> 01:08:41,325
but it's a space where students
can invite chosen family.

1821
01:08:41,325 --> 01:08:42,690
So it would encourage
students to bring

1822
01:08:42,690 --> 01:08:45,015
mentors who on campus
was meaningful to you.

1823
01:08:45,015 --> 01:08:46,950
Have that person come
and celebrate with you,

1824
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:48,660
have them present
your cords to you.

1825
01:08:48,660 --> 01:08:50,310
That was a really fun
thing that we did it,

1826
01:08:50,310 --> 01:08:52,200
where students
could pick a mentor

1827
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:53,910
and that mentor
could come on stage

1828
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:55,530
and present them
their cords and say

1829
01:08:55,530 --> 01:08:57,690
a couple kind words
about the student.

1830
01:08:57,690 --> 01:08:59,070
We morphed into having

1831
01:08:59,070 --> 01:09:01,590
awards for engaged
students on campus,

1832
01:09:01,590 --> 01:09:04,740
Emerging Leader Award and
the Pride Leadership Award

1833
01:09:04,740 --> 01:09:06,450
and advisor of the year

1834
01:09:06,450 --> 01:09:08,685
and Safe Space Initiative
Leader of the award.

1835
01:09:08,685 --> 01:09:09,915
So different ways to

1836
01:09:09,915 --> 01:09:12,270
recognize queer work that was
happening and things that

1837
01:09:12,270 --> 01:09:14,610
students were
involved in that were

1838
01:09:14,610 --> 01:09:17,385
influencing and impacting our
community in positive ways.

1839
01:09:17,385 --> 01:09:19,785
So that's really what rainbow
graduation is all about.

1840
01:09:19,785 --> 01:09:24,975
>> Wonderful. So a couple
of years after that,

1841
01:09:24,975 --> 01:09:27,240
there was Queer Prom.

1842
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,175
Was that something that
you were involved with?

1843
01:09:29,175 --> 01:09:30,435
>> So the first iteration,

1844
01:09:30,435 --> 01:09:31,320
that was one of
those things again,

1845
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,660
what's best from students
and versus the institution.

1846
01:09:33,660 --> 01:09:35,280
I wanted to do it because
I thought it would be

1847
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,350
fun for students
to have a chance

1848
01:09:37,350 --> 01:09:40,080
where I remember sitting

1849
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,850
in the center and overhearing
students talk about

1850
01:09:41,850 --> 01:09:43,290
their high school
experience with prom

1851
01:09:43,290 --> 01:09:44,790
and how they didn't
necessarily get to take

1852
01:09:44,790 --> 01:09:46,050
the person that they
wanted and there

1853
01:09:46,050 --> 01:09:48,045
was controversies
in the news about

1854
01:09:48,045 --> 01:09:50,175
same-sex couples
and proms and being

1855
01:09:50,175 --> 01:09:52,725
turned away and rules
about only men and women,

1856
01:09:52,725 --> 01:09:53,940
couples can buy tickets.

1857
01:09:53,940 --> 01:09:54,915
I thought "That's not fair.

1858
01:09:54,915 --> 01:09:57,540
That's a quintessential
experience somebody should have."

1859
01:09:57,540 --> 01:10:01,215
And so I myself had
gone through it.

1860
01:10:01,215 --> 01:10:06,600
My date was a guy
friend in high school,

1861
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,760
but then my girlfriend was
actually there at prom

1862
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,350
and it was still the same thing

1863
01:10:10,350 --> 01:10:12,225
like how do you navigate
getting to do this thing,

1864
01:10:12,225 --> 01:10:14,280
but you have to do it
differently than other students.

1865
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,110
There's a little
air of secrecy and

1866
01:10:16,110 --> 01:10:17,850
strategy behind being able

1867
01:10:17,850 --> 01:10:19,800
to successfully do
something like that.

1868
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,130
So I shouldn't have that.
So we did the prom.

1869
01:10:23,130 --> 01:10:25,740
And so we did it the first year.

1870
01:10:25,740 --> 01:10:27,600
We had a little photo
booth set up and they got

1871
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,805
the prom pictures and all
that kind of fun stuff,

1872
01:10:29,805 --> 01:10:30,870
but that's something that we

1873
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:31,770
realized after the first year,

1874
01:10:31,770 --> 01:10:33,180
that's probably something that
really needed to come from

1875
01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:34,860
the students and not
from the institution.

1876
01:10:34,860 --> 01:10:37,200
That was less of

1877
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:38,700
a institutional sense
of belonging and

1878
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:40,350
more of a fun
experience to have.

1879
01:10:40,350 --> 01:10:41,880
So things like that
was really better

1880
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:43,620
for the student voice and
letting them play in that.

1881
01:10:43,620 --> 01:10:46,770
So I think KPA still does
it. They do Pride Prom.

1882
01:10:46,770 --> 01:10:49,290
They don't call it
the masquerade ball,

1883
01:10:49,290 --> 01:10:50,400
but they call it Pride Prom,

1884
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,620
and they still do that now,

1885
01:10:52,620 --> 01:10:55,545
but it's led by the KPA
student organization.

1886
01:10:55,545 --> 01:10:57,765
>> Speaking of what comes from

1887
01:10:57,765 --> 01:11:00,060
students in the institution,

1888
01:11:00,060 --> 01:11:03,735
the creation of community
center resource,

1889
01:11:03,735 --> 01:11:06,780
can you talk a little bit about
the role that those play?

1890
01:11:06,780 --> 01:11:10,050
>> So community groups

1891
01:11:10,050 --> 01:11:11,490
and the way that I
originally envisioned

1892
01:11:11,490 --> 01:11:13,860
them served a
couple of purposes.

1893
01:11:13,860 --> 01:11:17,220
One, I had student reach
out about wanting to start

1894
01:11:17,220 --> 01:11:20,460
a new student organization
Trans Pride Alliance to

1895
01:11:20,460 --> 01:11:22,620
specifically address
ways in which they

1896
01:11:22,620 --> 01:11:26,040
felt KPA did not fully

1897
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,190
capture the trans
experience and really look

1898
01:11:29,190 --> 01:11:30,390
at if we're talking
about ways that we

1899
01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:32,535
highlight the unique
experiences of students.

1900
01:11:32,535 --> 01:11:34,260
Trans students didn't
always see themselves

1901
01:11:34,260 --> 01:11:36,600
fully inside of KPA,

1902
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,265
so they had brought
that concern.

1903
01:11:38,265 --> 01:11:40,620
My job as representative
of the institution was to

1904
01:11:40,620 --> 01:11:41,910
hear students concerns and help

1905
01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:43,260
them find ways to address that.

1906
01:11:43,260 --> 01:11:44,925
And how do we get them to yes

1907
01:11:44,925 --> 01:11:46,860
and something that
works well for them?

1908
01:11:46,860 --> 01:11:48,420
And so we first
started exploring

1909
01:11:48,420 --> 01:11:50,130
the idea of walking
through the process of

1910
01:11:50,130 --> 01:11:51,930
creating a formal
student organization

1911
01:11:51,930 --> 01:11:54,640
that will be recognized
by the university.

1912
01:11:55,310 --> 01:11:58,080
In meeting with KPA and

1913
01:11:58,080 --> 01:11:59,160
the students who were
wanting to start

1914
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:00,585
Trans Pride Alliance,

1915
01:12:00,585 --> 01:12:03,240
they came to the realization
that they didn't want to

1916
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,380
fracture the
university resources.

1917
01:12:07,380 --> 01:12:08,790
So if there's two organizations,

1918
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:09,780
there's rules about
organizations,

1919
01:12:09,780 --> 01:12:11,520
how closely aligned
the mission statements

1920
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,440
are and requesting for funding,

1921
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:15,285
and so they felt they were
going to be competing

1922
01:12:15,285 --> 01:12:16,830
over similar resources,

1923
01:12:16,830 --> 01:12:17,640
and that was not what

1924
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:18,960
the purpose of the
pride alliance was.

1925
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,400
It was not to
create competition,

1926
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,340
it was create exclusive
space to focus in on

1927
01:12:23,340 --> 01:12:26,595
a unique set of experiences
within the community.

1928
01:12:26,595 --> 01:12:28,910
And so diving in upon

1929
01:12:28,910 --> 01:12:30,170
that reflection with the real

1930
01:12:30,170 --> 01:12:31,340
intent of what
they wanted to do,

1931
01:12:31,340 --> 01:12:33,320
we decided that a
student organization

1932
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,375
really wasn't going to get
them what they wanted,

1933
01:12:35,375 --> 01:12:36,995
and it's going to
be a lot more work

1934
01:12:36,995 --> 01:12:38,840
to not meet that goal.

1935
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,100
So I said, "As a
resource center though,

1936
01:12:42,100 --> 01:12:47,460
I have space, I have a
calendar, we have resources.

1937
01:12:47,460 --> 01:12:48,870
So why don't we help?

1938
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:50,700
Instead of being a formal
student organization,

1939
01:12:50,700 --> 01:12:52,410
we can create these
community groups."

1940
01:12:52,410 --> 01:12:55,815
They're really peer-facilitated
discussion groups.

1941
01:12:55,815 --> 01:12:59,310
And so for the first
couple of years,

1942
01:12:59,310 --> 01:13:03,150
we had student assistant
positions where we could

1943
01:13:03,150 --> 01:13:05,070
pay the student leaders to

1944
01:13:05,070 --> 01:13:07,605
operate these spaces
on our behalf.

1945
01:13:07,605 --> 01:13:11,340
And so that meant they
had to keep calendars,

1946
01:13:11,340 --> 01:13:12,870
they had to do event planning.

1947
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:14,055
We had a little budget
for each of them,

1948
01:13:14,055 --> 01:13:16,305
got 500 bucks a year
to do an event,

1949
01:13:16,305 --> 01:13:19,185
and we grew from having became

1950
01:13:19,185 --> 01:13:21,510
Transcend to I
think now they have

1951
01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:22,620
six or seven different

1952
01:13:22,620 --> 01:13:24,585
community groups
that are operated.

1953
01:13:24,585 --> 01:13:28,020
Looking at specific identities
that sometimes you can

1954
01:13:28,020 --> 01:13:31,710
experience erasure within
the larger LGBTQ community,

1955
01:13:31,710 --> 01:13:35,490
creating that space for
students to help other students

1956
01:13:35,490 --> 01:13:37,170
navigate the world in

1957
01:13:37,170 --> 01:13:39,120
that lived experience is

1958
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,380
really the core purpose
of the community groups.

1959
01:13:41,380 --> 01:13:45,495
>> Wonderful. And then
the clothing closet.

1960
01:13:45,495 --> 01:13:47,040
Was that something
that came about during

1961
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,365
your time with the
resource center?

1962
01:13:49,365 --> 01:13:51,060
>> So that came
out of Transcend,

1963
01:13:51,060 --> 01:13:54,150
that first initial
community group because I

1964
01:13:54,150 --> 01:13:55,680
also asked the
community groups that

1965
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,065
while they're there
for peer support,

1966
01:13:58,065 --> 01:14:00,660
the reason that they're coming
from the resource center

1967
01:14:00,660 --> 01:14:05,490
itself is that they serve
as an advisory board to me.

1968
01:14:05,490 --> 01:14:09,270
I carry only a certain
set of identities.

1969
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:11,760
My lived experience
is pretty narrow

1970
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,610
when we look at the broad
spectrum of queer identities.

1971
01:14:14,610 --> 01:14:15,885
And while I have the

1972
01:14:15,885 --> 01:14:17,700
educational and
professional background

1973
01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:19,875
to understand the way
the systems work,

1974
01:14:19,875 --> 01:14:21,090
I don't have the lived

1975
01:14:21,090 --> 01:14:22,530
experience that all
my students have.

1976
01:14:22,530 --> 01:14:24,120
Ans do I wanted to

1977
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:25,860
leverage the community groups
to make sure that I was

1978
01:14:25,860 --> 01:14:27,510
hearing and I was accountable to

1979
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:28,650
all the different experiences

1980
01:14:28,650 --> 01:14:30,105
that my students were having.

1981
01:14:30,105 --> 01:14:32,010
I asked them the leaders would

1982
01:14:32,010 --> 01:14:34,800
serve together as an
advisory board to say,

1983
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,510
are we hitting all the policies,

1984
01:14:36,510 --> 01:14:38,310
are the programs or the
gaps that we're missing,

1985
01:14:38,310 --> 01:14:40,110
ways that we're not
being inclusive,

1986
01:14:40,110 --> 01:14:42,060
ways that we can add programming

1987
01:14:42,060 --> 01:14:44,445
to improve student experiences.

1988
01:14:44,445 --> 01:14:46,950
And so one of the things that
Transcend came back with

1989
01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:49,500
after meeting with
their group was

1990
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,890
that they had a need
for trans students

1991
01:14:52,890 --> 01:14:56,550
are exploring transition
or are in transition,

1992
01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:58,830
but don't have the financial
resources to purchase

1993
01:14:58,830 --> 01:15:00,630
a new wardrobe that

1994
01:15:00,630 --> 01:15:02,805
aligns with how they
experience the world.

1995
01:15:02,805 --> 01:15:04,230
They just didn't have
those resources.

1996
01:15:04,230 --> 01:15:06,870
We know if you look at
Maslow's hierarchy of needs,

1997
01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:09,630
if your basic level
needs are not met,

1998
01:15:09,630 --> 01:15:11,610
you're not doing
higher order thinking.

1999
01:15:11,610 --> 01:15:13,440
If you were concerned about
your immediate safety,

2000
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:15,075
shelter, food, clothing,

2001
01:15:15,075 --> 01:15:17,070
those immediate things, you're

2002
01:15:17,070 --> 01:15:19,410
not going to be successful
in school and ultimately,

2003
01:15:19,410 --> 01:15:21,480
we were the retention
services office.

2004
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:22,980
My job was to help
students get to

2005
01:15:22,980 --> 01:15:25,500
graduation within the
six-year timeframe.

2006
01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,540
And so if they're focused

2007
01:15:27,540 --> 01:15:30,150
on not feeling comfortable
in who they are,

2008
01:15:30,150 --> 01:15:33,585
then they are not succeeding
in the classroom.

2009
01:15:33,585 --> 01:15:36,000
And so Transcend
clothing closet,

2010
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:37,050
it was a way that
we can address that

2011
01:15:37,050 --> 01:15:38,370
pretty easily for free.

2012
01:15:38,370 --> 01:15:40,695
So why in the world
will we not do it?

2013
01:15:40,695 --> 01:15:42,495
And so we opened it up.

2014
01:15:42,495 --> 01:15:44,040
We turned our conference room

2015
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:45,780
once a month into a pop-up shop,

2016
01:15:45,780 --> 01:15:47,175
and throughout the year,

2017
01:15:47,175 --> 01:15:49,920
we would solicit donations
from the campus community,

2018
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,360
so students will
bring in clothes.

2019
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,775
So if one student transitioned,

2020
01:15:53,775 --> 01:15:55,740
they'd bring in their
old wardrobe to

2021
01:15:55,740 --> 01:15:58,170
donate for somebody else
who's transitioning.

2022
01:15:58,170 --> 01:16:00,840
We had staff and faculty
donating clothes,

2023
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:02,310
a lot of professional wear,
which is something that

2024
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:04,500
students had a really
hard time coming across.

2025
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:06,930
And so we maintain this closet
and then we'd pop it up.

2026
01:16:06,930 --> 01:16:08,790
We've got clothes racks who
try to make it very much

2027
01:16:08,790 --> 01:16:10,845
a real storefront feel.

2028
01:16:10,845 --> 01:16:12,645
I had a lot of dignity with it.

2029
01:16:12,645 --> 01:16:15,810
And so students would do
it, it was completely free.

2030
01:16:15,810 --> 01:16:17,490
Students could come
in and shop and we

2031
01:16:17,490 --> 01:16:19,290
opened it up,
anybody could come.

2032
01:16:19,290 --> 01:16:20,820
You didn't have to be trans or

2033
01:16:20,820 --> 01:16:23,040
part of Transcend or
even part of the center.

2034
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,200
Come in and shop because we had

2035
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,035
more clothes than
we had students,

2036
01:16:28,035 --> 01:16:31,365
so we really encouraged folks
to come and participate.

2037
01:16:31,365 --> 01:16:33,150
So it was a broader
campus resource,

2038
01:16:33,150 --> 01:16:35,010
particularly when we
look at financial need,

2039
01:16:35,010 --> 01:16:36,960
but it had a unique
set of meaning

2040
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,410
within the trans
community on campus to be

2041
01:16:40,410 --> 01:16:42,645
able to get gender
affirming clothing

2042
01:16:42,645 --> 01:16:44,400
that would ultimately
help them feel

2043
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,140
better and do better on campus.

2044
01:16:46,140 --> 01:16:48,270
>> Do you remember when
that program started?

2045
01:16:48,270 --> 01:16:51,870
[LAUGHTER]

2046
01:16:51,870 --> 01:16:53,610
>> My gut wants to say we were

2047
01:16:53,610 --> 01:16:56,220
upstairs when
Transcend happened.

2048
01:16:56,220 --> 01:17:02,590
So maybe 2017, 2018,
but [inaudible] doing.

2049
01:17:03,110 --> 01:17:06,480
>> So shortly after you
started working at KSU,

2050
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:08,115
it was announced that KSU

2051
01:17:08,115 --> 01:17:09,840
and Southern Pollywood
consolidate.

2052
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,970
>> It was just a
really slow time.

2053
01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:14,340
>> [LAUGHTER] Could
you speak about the

2054
01:17:14,340 --> 01:17:15,750
role that you played

2055
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:17,160
in consolidating programs and

2056
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:18,975
services between
the two campuses?

2057
01:17:18,975 --> 01:17:22,110
>> So in terms of form or
outside of just my position,

2058
01:17:22,110 --> 01:17:25,485
I was on the student activities
consolidation committee,

2059
01:17:25,485 --> 01:17:27,630
and so what did campus
life look like?

2060
01:17:27,630 --> 01:17:29,400
How do we consolidate

2061
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,150
two student affairs units
across both campuses?

2062
01:17:33,150 --> 01:17:34,530
I was on that committee,

2063
01:17:34,530 --> 01:17:40,620
but then also I had to look
at from the LGBT perspective,

2064
01:17:40,620 --> 01:17:43,050
what resources existed on SPSU?

2065
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:45,510
How did they align or

2066
01:17:45,510 --> 01:17:48,450
not align with the resources
that had been built at KSU,

2067
01:17:48,450 --> 01:17:51,090
recognizing that we were
one of three institutions

2068
01:17:51,090 --> 01:17:53,790
that had a resource
center of any capacity.

2069
01:17:53,790 --> 01:17:55,140
And so we had different levels

2070
01:17:55,140 --> 01:17:56,460
of programming and resources,

2071
01:17:56,460 --> 01:17:58,965
but how do we bring those
into alignment without

2072
01:17:58,965 --> 01:18:03,165
erasing an invisible populations
community in history,

2073
01:18:03,165 --> 01:18:05,565
which is a delicate
thing to need to do.

2074
01:18:05,565 --> 01:18:08,520
And so there was a student
organization and we

2075
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,580
tried to keep that student
organization revived,

2076
01:18:11,580 --> 01:18:13,650
but overall, students had a lot

2077
01:18:13,650 --> 01:18:15,990
of feelings through
consolidation,

2078
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:18,520
and so that was not their focus.

2079
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:22,110
I think they were
a GSA formally.

2080
01:18:22,110 --> 01:18:23,340
I think that is what
their name was GSA

2081
01:18:23,340 --> 01:18:25,690
on Marietta Campus SPSU.

2082
01:18:25,690 --> 01:18:27,845
They went a little bit defunct.

2083
01:18:27,845 --> 01:18:29,690
We had some collaboration
for a little while,

2084
01:18:29,690 --> 01:18:30,710
and we were trying to talk

2085
01:18:30,710 --> 01:18:32,300
through the same things

2086
01:18:32,300 --> 01:18:33,695
that the institution
was going through.

2087
01:18:33,695 --> 01:18:37,370
Is there a KPA Marietta,
a KPA Kennesaw?

2088
01:18:37,370 --> 01:18:40,850
Does that really align
with the synergy there?

2089
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:43,145
Would they feel like they're
less than or more than?

2090
01:18:43,145 --> 01:18:45,410
There's a lot of that
conversation going

2091
01:18:45,410 --> 01:18:48,560
on from the student
organization perspective.

2092
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,905
And we had the Marietta
for a little while.

2093
01:18:51,905 --> 01:18:52,580
I think there's still

2094
01:18:52,580 --> 01:18:54,785
a Facebook page out
there, honestly.

2095
01:18:54,785 --> 01:18:57,560
But eventually, it's all
consolidated underneath

2096
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,125
one and they hold programming
on both campuses.

2097
01:19:00,125 --> 01:19:02,540
Then in terms of

2098
01:19:02,540 --> 01:19:03,920
the other big thing that existed

2099
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,570
was the Safe Space initiative.

2100
01:19:05,570 --> 01:19:07,820
Kennesaw had safe space,

2101
01:19:07,820 --> 01:19:11,045
SPSU had Safe Zone that
had been started in 2010.

2102
01:19:11,045 --> 01:19:13,580
So it was still growing.

2103
01:19:13,580 --> 01:19:15,590
And so, my first thing

2104
01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:17,435
is I went and I sat
in on their training.

2105
01:19:17,435 --> 01:19:19,310
And before we prejudge

2106
01:19:19,310 --> 01:19:20,945
and assume that what
I'm doing is right,

2107
01:19:20,945 --> 01:19:22,190
let's go and see
what they're doing.

2108
01:19:22,190 --> 01:19:23,540
What can I learn from them?

2109
01:19:23,540 --> 01:19:25,730
Because I inherited Safe
Space program at Kennesaw

2110
01:19:25,730 --> 01:19:27,980
and I hadn't really changed
any since I came in.

2111
01:19:27,980 --> 01:19:29,540
And so I watched the Safe Zone

2112
01:19:29,540 --> 01:19:30,710
training, spoke with folks.

2113
01:19:30,710 --> 01:19:33,170
Dr. Holiday is still at KSU and

2114
01:19:33,170 --> 01:19:36,515
was very instrumental
in Safe Zone at SPSU.

2115
01:19:36,515 --> 01:19:38,210
And so through that,

2116
01:19:38,210 --> 01:19:40,115
having experienced
both programs,

2117
01:19:40,115 --> 01:19:42,830
I convened a
committee and folks.

2118
01:19:42,830 --> 01:19:44,960
I had three folks from
Kennesaw campus and

2119
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,690
three folks from Marietta
come together and

2120
01:19:47,690 --> 01:19:50,240
serve as an advisory board
as I went through and

2121
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,630
redeveloped and
revamped the program.

2122
01:19:53,630 --> 01:19:58,760
So I moved Safe Space
to a really moving it

2123
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:03,110
to a social justice and
queer theory based model

2124
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:06,725
rather than a compliance
HR type of model.

2125
01:20:06,725 --> 01:20:08,090
Really thinking about
how and why are

2126
01:20:08,090 --> 01:20:09,710
students experiencing
campus differently,

2127
01:20:09,710 --> 01:20:11,165
and how can we learn from that?

2128
01:20:11,165 --> 01:20:14,600
And so brought those
together with the feedback

2129
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:16,040
and advice of those folks

2130
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,125
who had developed the
original programs.

2131
01:20:18,125 --> 01:20:20,690
And so through that
we just incorporated

2132
01:20:20,690 --> 01:20:23,840
Safe Zone into the new
curriculum of Safe Space.

2133
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,255
Rather than trying to just
keep one or the other,

2134
01:20:26,255 --> 01:20:27,710
it was like, let's
see where this is

2135
01:20:27,710 --> 01:20:30,245
an opportunity for us to
improve both aspects.

2136
01:20:30,245 --> 01:20:32,540
Safe Space now is served on

2137
01:20:32,540 --> 01:20:36,300
both campuses under
a single curriculum.

2138
01:20:37,150 --> 01:20:40,370
>> So in 2019,

2139
01:20:40,370 --> 01:20:43,445
you transitioned into a
different role at KSU.

2140
01:20:43,445 --> 01:20:45,455
Could you talk a
little bit about that?

2141
01:20:45,455 --> 01:20:47,390
>> So I had moved from

2142
01:20:47,390 --> 01:20:49,595
program coordinator to
assistant director,

2143
01:20:49,595 --> 01:20:53,835
focusing exclusively on
LGBTQ student experience.

2144
01:20:53,835 --> 01:20:57,160
Through that, I had developed
a lot of skills, though,

2145
01:20:57,160 --> 01:20:58,720
when you're developing
a new office that

2146
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:00,280
hasn't existed before
in a space where people

2147
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,080
may not always
understand what the need

2148
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:04,240
is or understand the
scope of that need,

2149
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,350
I think [inaudible]
queer communities,

2150
01:21:06,350 --> 01:21:08,255
it seems a small
group of students,

2151
01:21:08,255 --> 01:21:09,860
and we quickly challenge

2152
01:21:09,860 --> 01:21:12,065
that in terms of
utilization of our space.

2153
01:21:12,065 --> 01:21:14,150
In order to do that, to
challenge and advocate for

2154
01:21:14,150 --> 01:21:15,590
resources for this
new founding office,

2155
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:17,315
I didn't have a budget.

2156
01:21:17,315 --> 01:21:19,640
How to get really
good assessment.

2157
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:21,485
Sandy, how do I tell this story?

2158
01:21:21,485 --> 01:21:23,810
How do I quantify
what's happening

2159
01:21:23,810 --> 01:21:26,750
on campus and what the
need is for students?

2160
01:21:26,750 --> 01:21:28,100
And so I started developing

2161
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:30,800
some really strong assessment
skills to be able to tell

2162
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:32,810
that story coming from
a business background

2163
01:21:32,810 --> 01:21:34,790
and meshing that with theory.

2164
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:35,810
I knew that just because it's

2165
01:21:35,810 --> 01:21:37,430
right doesn't make it happen.

2166
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:39,200
So I need to be able
to paint that story

2167
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,000
and really articulate the need.

2168
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,240
And so I had been doing the
LGBTQ work for a while,

2169
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,760
but it had started
to venture into,

2170
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:48,440
really thinking about what does

2171
01:21:48,440 --> 01:21:50,600
the assessment model look
like, not just for my office,

2172
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,960
but for what became
cultural community centers.

2173
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,150
But the Multicultural
Student Retention Services,

2174
01:21:56,150 --> 01:21:57,560
International Student
Women's Resource

2175
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:58,790
Center, and LGBTQ,

2176
01:21:58,790 --> 01:22:01,040
we were all underneath
one umbrella of

2177
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,110
a department now called
Cultural Community Centers,

2178
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:04,700
which is what it's
currently called.

2179
01:22:04,700 --> 01:22:07,460
And so really thinking
through how do we

2180
01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:08,990
effectively tell the story and

2181
01:22:08,990 --> 01:22:10,550
the need for these
types of resources,

2182
01:22:10,550 --> 01:22:15,110
particularly when
external stakeholders

2183
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:16,760
were questioning the validity of

2184
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,010
those resources and
the need for them.

2185
01:22:19,010 --> 01:22:20,540
There's questions about
why are we funding this,

2186
01:22:20,540 --> 01:22:23,495
how state funds being
used for these offices?

2187
01:22:23,495 --> 01:22:25,280
Who is it serving? Is it really

2188
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:26,840
serving the mission
of institution?

2189
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:28,175
Is it pushing an agenda?

2190
01:22:28,175 --> 01:22:30,200
And so we really needed
to be able to fully tell

2191
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:31,130
the reason why
we're there and it

2192
01:22:31,130 --> 01:22:32,090
was not to push an agenda.

2193
01:22:32,090 --> 01:22:33,500
It's to help students graduate.

2194
01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:35,720
And we know that theory tells us

2195
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,090
that an engaged student
is a retained student,

2196
01:22:38,090 --> 01:22:40,790
a student who has a strong
sense of belonging to

2197
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:42,380
an institution is
more likely to be

2198
01:22:42,380 --> 01:22:44,660
retained and more likely
to graduate on time.

2199
01:22:44,660 --> 01:22:47,165
We're providing that for
a set of students that

2200
01:22:47,165 --> 01:22:48,590
have a history of not always

2201
01:22:48,590 --> 01:22:50,300
graduating or
graduating on time.

2202
01:22:50,300 --> 01:22:53,350
So putting that special
emphasis on helping them have

2203
01:22:53,350 --> 01:22:54,910
a positive impact on
our institutions of

2204
01:22:54,910 --> 01:22:56,785
potential progression
and graduation numbers.

2205
01:22:56,785 --> 01:22:59,350
That all starts to get very
assessmenty, a lot of data.

2206
01:22:59,350 --> 01:23:02,410
And so because I had
had prior experience in

2207
01:23:02,410 --> 01:23:04,030
effectively articulating
the need for

2208
01:23:04,030 --> 01:23:05,910
the LGBTQ student population,

2209
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:06,950
I was allowed to provide

2210
01:23:06,950 --> 01:23:08,090
some leadership about
how do you start to

2211
01:23:08,090 --> 01:23:10,130
look at that for

2212
01:23:10,130 --> 01:23:11,960
the scope of all
of these kind of

2213
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,545
population geared program
services on campus.

2214
01:23:15,545 --> 01:23:17,150
So that's why I
transitioned into

2215
01:23:17,150 --> 01:23:20,420
the assessment role for
culture and community centers.

2216
01:23:20,420 --> 01:23:22,910
Then from there, was asked to

2217
01:23:22,910 --> 01:23:25,520
step up and scale that up
for the entire division of

2218
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,590
how do we tell our story
more effectively for

2219
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:29,480
the entire division
of student affairs.

2220
01:23:29,480 --> 01:23:30,905
So that's what I do now.

2221
01:23:30,905 --> 01:23:32,810
>> Great. And at some point

2222
01:23:32,810 --> 01:23:34,295
you went back for your master's?

2223
01:23:34,295 --> 01:23:35,990
>> I did all of that.
Yeah, I had a baby,

2224
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:38,385
bought a house and got my
master's degree all in there.

2225
01:23:38,385 --> 01:23:40,870
>> And now you also teach in

2226
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:43,045
the interdisciplinary
studies department

2227
01:23:43,045 --> 01:23:44,665
classes in subject areas.

2228
01:23:44,665 --> 01:23:47,530
>> So I've taught the
American Studies,

2229
01:23:47,530 --> 01:23:49,435
Alena two, the intro to
American identities,

2230
01:23:49,435 --> 01:23:54,260
and I taught in KSU 1101 back
when I was a programmer.

2231
01:23:54,260 --> 01:23:57,710
I taught KSU 11. That was my
first teaching experience.

2232
01:23:57,710 --> 01:23:59,840
And then now I teach
gender women studies,

2233
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,120
1102, the Love and sex course.

2234
01:24:06,220 --> 01:24:08,810
>> Reflecting back
on the growth of

2235
01:24:08,810 --> 01:24:12,890
the LGBTQ resource Center
during and since your tenure,

2236
01:24:12,890 --> 01:24:15,320
could you speak a
little about the growth

2237
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,420
of the physical space over time?

2238
01:24:17,420 --> 01:24:18,860
I know that's something
that you mentioned.

2239
01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:19,445
>> Little pata.

2240
01:24:19,445 --> 01:24:20,790
>> Yeah.

2241
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:28,055
>> Again, if we think about
where I started with this,

2242
01:24:28,055 --> 01:24:29,390
we can't have a drag
show on campus.

2243
01:24:29,390 --> 01:24:30,950
Nobody would come to now

2244
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:32,690
having a full fledged
department and

2245
01:24:32,690 --> 01:24:35,150
having so much support from

2246
01:24:35,150 --> 01:24:37,790
across campus in ways that I
would have never imagined.

2247
01:24:37,790 --> 01:24:40,280
So a lot of me just going,

2248
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:41,780
why can't we or
what would happen

2249
01:24:41,780 --> 01:24:43,835
if people being willing
to support and help that.

2250
01:24:43,835 --> 01:24:45,110
I think that's really,

2251
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:46,130
truly something special about

2252
01:24:46,130 --> 01:24:48,770
the KSU community that
folks were willing to help.

2253
01:24:48,770 --> 01:24:49,850
Everybody has very full plates.

2254
01:24:49,850 --> 01:24:52,040
We were institution
that grew very

2255
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:55,010
fast and has tried
to evolve to that,

2256
01:24:55,010 --> 01:24:56,750
but people stopped what
they were doing to try to

2257
01:24:56,750 --> 01:24:58,700
help. I think that's
a wonderful thing.

2258
01:24:58,700 --> 01:25:01,190
There's no way that what we have

2259
01:25:01,190 --> 01:25:04,310
now would have ever been
achieved without people going,

2260
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:04,940
yeah, sure let's give it

2261
01:25:04,940 --> 01:25:06,590
a shot because there's
things that we do

2262
01:25:06,590 --> 01:25:09,650
that I could never have
done as one person.

2263
01:25:09,650 --> 01:25:12,980
And so I'm extremely grateful
for that and the way that

2264
01:25:12,980 --> 01:25:14,180
the department has grown over

2265
01:25:14,180 --> 01:25:17,045
time, it was always just
something I was like,

2266
01:25:17,045 --> 01:25:19,640
the shoe has got to drop at
some point because you can't

2267
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,310
do this much stuff in this
short period of time,

2268
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:26,060
in an institution this
size and get away with it.

2269
01:25:26,060 --> 01:25:27,605
I've been shocked
and amazed that

2270
01:25:27,605 --> 01:25:30,425
it continues to grow and evolve.

2271
01:25:30,425 --> 01:25:35,075
So I'm very proud of
the ways that we have

2272
01:25:35,075 --> 01:25:40,445
balanced the weight of again,

2273
01:25:40,445 --> 01:25:42,095
not all of this
being on students,

2274
01:25:42,095 --> 01:25:44,285
that the institution
bears the responsibility.

2275
01:25:44,285 --> 01:25:46,175
The institution has
taken up that call.

2276
01:25:46,175 --> 01:25:47,480
Again, not just from our office.

2277
01:25:47,480 --> 01:25:50,300
It's really been pushed into
the entirety of institution.

2278
01:25:50,300 --> 01:25:52,130
Queer work should come
from all places and

2279
01:25:52,130 --> 01:25:54,800
we've had a lot of folks who
have really supported that.

2280
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:58,220
So it's truly institutionalizing
and therefore,

2281
01:25:58,220 --> 01:25:59,540
creating a true
sense of belonging

2282
01:25:59,540 --> 01:26:00,785
for queer students on campus.

2283
01:26:00,785 --> 01:26:02,645
I think that's wonderful.

2284
01:26:02,645 --> 01:26:04,985
I'm excited to see
what comes next.

2285
01:26:04,985 --> 01:26:06,260
There's a whole new group

2286
01:26:06,260 --> 01:26:08,315
of leaders that are
coming through.

2287
01:26:08,315 --> 01:26:12,245
They really get to take it now
outside of my perspective,

2288
01:26:12,245 --> 01:26:14,060
because I have one set
of lived experiences.

2289
01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:16,325
There's what I saw as
needs as a student,

2290
01:26:16,325 --> 01:26:17,780
and then I addressed those needs

2291
01:26:17,780 --> 01:26:19,295
and we built those things,

2292
01:26:19,295 --> 01:26:20,720
and now folks get to bring

2293
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:21,860
a whole new perspective in

2294
01:26:21,860 --> 01:26:23,165
and continue to
grow the program.

2295
01:26:23,165 --> 01:26:25,250
So I'm really excited to
see what they come up with.

2296
01:26:25,250 --> 01:26:26,840
I think it's going to be a
lot of fun and they have

2297
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:28,010
some really great ideas

2298
01:26:28,010 --> 01:26:30,510
with the new leadership
in the area.

2299
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,110
In terms of growth of
the physical space,

2300
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:34,430
that's something
in the assessment

2301
01:26:34,430 --> 01:26:36,245
really played a key factor in.

2302
01:26:36,245 --> 01:26:38,660
Our first space was, I think,

2303
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:44,045
374 square feet, was
the area for students.

2304
01:26:44,045 --> 01:26:46,070
I think I have a office
in the back that I

2305
01:26:46,070 --> 01:26:48,620
shared with another
my coordinator,

2306
01:26:48,620 --> 01:26:51,755
Nasa, her and I
shared an office.

2307
01:26:51,755 --> 01:26:52,970
I think we were one
of the few people in

2308
01:26:52,970 --> 01:26:54,380
the entire division
that shared an office,

2309
01:26:54,380 --> 01:26:58,070
but there was physically
not enough space for us.

2310
01:26:58,070 --> 01:27:00,080
It quickly became
apparent that we

2311
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:01,805
did not have enough
room for the students.

2312
01:27:01,805 --> 01:27:04,010
My office became a
backpack storage,

2313
01:27:04,010 --> 01:27:07,190
just so we could shove more
students into our office,

2314
01:27:07,190 --> 01:27:09,170
had to find out what
the fire code was

2315
01:27:09,170 --> 01:27:13,460
because it was the first
year of the center,

2316
01:27:13,460 --> 01:27:17,585
we had a grow 528% growth
in usage at the center.

2317
01:27:17,585 --> 01:27:19,400
I would take pictures
every day of

2318
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:21,590
all these bodies
crammed in the center.

2319
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:23,510
Quickly became apparent
that this was not

2320
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:25,280
sustainable and that
we were going to

2321
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,890
cut our own growth
because the demand far

2322
01:27:27,890 --> 01:27:31,595
exceeded just physical the
number of chairs that we had.

2323
01:27:31,595 --> 01:27:35,030
And so we worked with Student
Government Association

2324
01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:36,755
and students from the center,

2325
01:27:36,755 --> 01:27:38,750
work to actually get SGA passed

2326
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:41,090
an amendment supporting
that we needed to

2327
01:27:41,090 --> 01:27:42,230
explore the reallocation of

2328
01:27:42,230 --> 01:27:43,640
space in the Student
Center in order

2329
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,655
to get new space for
the LGBTQ Center.

2330
01:27:46,655 --> 01:27:49,955
And so we went from 300
something square feet,

2331
01:27:49,955 --> 01:27:52,340
this one little office
of the conference table

2332
01:27:52,340 --> 01:27:54,140
to moving up to

2333
01:27:54,140 --> 01:27:56,600
the second floor and
having two full offices,

2334
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,455
a conference room, a
lounge space, and a lobby.

2335
01:28:00,455 --> 01:28:02,480
Being able to really have
this full space and then

2336
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:04,250
we were able to advocate
for a budget to

2337
01:28:04,250 --> 01:28:05,540
actually renovate it
so that we weren't

2338
01:28:05,540 --> 01:28:08,725
using surplus
leftover furniture.

2339
01:28:08,725 --> 01:28:10,990
But that it was quality
furniture again,

2340
01:28:10,990 --> 01:28:12,925
thinking about the
dignity of students.

2341
01:28:12,925 --> 01:28:14,410
What message does it send to

2342
01:28:14,410 --> 01:28:16,840
students when they have
half broken furniture?

2343
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:18,620
It's a population that already

2344
01:28:18,620 --> 01:28:20,165
feels like they're
forgotten about.

2345
01:28:20,165 --> 01:28:21,545
That's not something
that I wanted

2346
01:28:21,545 --> 01:28:23,210
our office to perpetuate.

2347
01:28:23,210 --> 01:28:26,090
So we fought really
hard to make a case

2348
01:28:26,090 --> 01:28:28,880
for why we needed to
have matching furniture.

2349
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:30,320
Seems superficial, but when

2350
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:31,430
you think about representation

2351
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:34,430
and folks feeling like they
are seen and important,

2352
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:36,650
having a half broken
chair says a lot

2353
01:28:36,650 --> 01:28:39,720
more than we just
couldn't buy a chair.

2354
01:28:39,970 --> 01:28:42,305
>> So in a previous interview,

2355
01:28:42,305 --> 01:28:43,910
you mentioned wanting to create

2356
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:46,580
a network of visibility
on campus and

2357
01:28:46,580 --> 01:28:49,490
to integrate LGBTQ
Resource Center

2358
01:28:49,490 --> 01:28:51,410
with other campus services.

2359
01:28:51,410 --> 01:28:53,810
Could you reflect a little
on how far the center

2360
01:28:53,810 --> 01:28:56,720
came in achieving those goals
during your tenure there?

2361
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,015
>> Yeah, I think, like I said,
I was mentioned earlier,

2362
01:28:59,015 --> 01:29:00,425
these things would not exist

2363
01:29:00,425 --> 01:29:02,165
if they just came
from the center,

2364
01:29:02,165 --> 01:29:03,980
look at it just with
two staff people.

2365
01:29:03,980 --> 01:29:06,395
It's physically just
80 hours a week.

2366
01:29:06,395 --> 01:29:09,770
KSU paperwork can sometimes
take 80 hours a week.

2367
01:29:09,770 --> 01:29:12,605
So how do you actually get
these things to grow and

2368
01:29:12,605 --> 01:29:16,055
not have the obligation
of just one department?

2369
01:29:16,055 --> 01:29:17,480
So we've been
extremely successful,

2370
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:18,770
so I think the coming
out monologues,

2371
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:22,685
that's an example of,
they take it on now.

2372
01:29:22,685 --> 01:29:24,230
The LGBTQ Resource Center

2373
01:29:24,230 --> 01:29:26,030
isn't responsible for
that programming anymore.

2374
01:29:26,030 --> 01:29:29,240
We support it and participate
and help promote it,

2375
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:30,650
but they've taken that on

2376
01:29:30,650 --> 01:29:32,675
as an extra thing
to their plate.

2377
01:29:32,675 --> 01:29:34,400
And so it's been
institutionalized

2378
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,245
into the Theater Department.

2379
01:29:36,245 --> 01:29:39,800
We look at housing.
Now housing has

2380
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:41,750
responsibility for
queer inclusion

2381
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:43,835
and creating spaces on campus.

2382
01:29:43,835 --> 01:29:46,070
They've taken that
ownership on and help us.

2383
01:29:46,070 --> 01:29:47,180
They provide the RAs,

2384
01:29:47,180 --> 01:29:48,620
the training, and all of that.

2385
01:29:48,620 --> 01:29:50,000
Again, the center
is not having to

2386
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,860
carry that all by itself.

2387
01:29:51,860 --> 01:29:54,920
We've worked with
KSUPD to look at

2388
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,950
how do we have
inclusive RAD training?

2389
01:29:57,950 --> 01:30:01,325
We have worked with our
community affairs office?

2390
01:30:01,325 --> 01:30:03,905
I don't know if it's still
there, but when I was there,

2391
01:30:03,905 --> 01:30:06,110
we had an officer that got

2392
01:30:06,110 --> 01:30:07,280
called that even if they

2393
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:08,570
weren't the first
responding officer,

2394
01:30:08,570 --> 01:30:10,625
if there was an incident
on campus that involved

2395
01:30:10,625 --> 01:30:13,235
an LGBTQ student or an
LGBTQ related issue,

2396
01:30:13,235 --> 01:30:15,575
that officer got
called to the scene.

2397
01:30:15,575 --> 01:30:17,870
So that student felt like
there was somebody there that

2398
01:30:17,870 --> 01:30:19,250
was seeing and understanding

2399
01:30:19,250 --> 01:30:20,855
the world from
their perspective.

2400
01:30:20,855 --> 01:30:21,800
So we were able to think

2401
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,425
those relationships
into that space.

2402
01:30:24,425 --> 01:30:26,945
The bob bus being in the parade,

2403
01:30:26,945 --> 01:30:28,670
we negotiated out where
they can donate some

2404
01:30:28,670 --> 01:30:30,440
of those services and
have somebody come

2405
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:32,750
into work on a Saturday
and take a bob bus

2406
01:30:32,750 --> 01:30:34,340
down so that it

2407
01:30:34,340 --> 01:30:37,130
was transportation responsibility
was no longer on us,

2408
01:30:37,130 --> 01:30:39,245
but they were
participating in that.

2409
01:30:39,245 --> 01:30:40,940
And so we found a counseling.

2410
01:30:40,940 --> 01:30:45,620
We have counselors that they
obviously see all students,

2411
01:30:45,620 --> 01:30:47,915
but they have a special
set of training,

2412
01:30:47,915 --> 01:30:48,890
and they're one of those folks

2413
01:30:48,890 --> 01:30:49,760
that when I ran the center.

2414
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:51,110
If I had a student in crisis,

2415
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:53,600
which unfortunately
happens a lot,

2416
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,760
I could pick up
the phone and they

2417
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:57,410
could jump the line and say,

2418
01:30:57,410 --> 01:31:00,260
I need this student to be
seen now, this is a moment.

2419
01:31:00,260 --> 01:31:02,060
I could walk that
student over and they

2420
01:31:02,060 --> 01:31:03,470
can be seen in a
moment of crisis.

2421
01:31:03,470 --> 01:31:06,260
And so again, that takes that
responsibility and shares

2422
01:31:06,260 --> 01:31:09,425
that and institutionalizes
it into another space.

2423
01:31:09,425 --> 01:31:10,490
I think that we were really

2424
01:31:10,490 --> 01:31:11,900
effective at looking at how do

2425
01:31:11,900 --> 01:31:14,240
we not have all of it

2426
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,430
just come from one place
because if it's just coming

2427
01:31:16,430 --> 01:31:19,055
from one place and that one
place is the Queer Office,

2428
01:31:19,055 --> 01:31:20,990
we're not really telling
that student that

2429
01:31:20,990 --> 01:31:23,180
the institution
fully embraces them,

2430
01:31:23,180 --> 01:31:24,725
but if they're
seeing it come from

2431
01:31:24,725 --> 01:31:26,300
everywhere and all these people

2432
01:31:26,300 --> 01:31:27,710
who are willing to
give up their time and

2433
01:31:27,710 --> 01:31:29,570
to support their success,

2434
01:31:29,570 --> 01:31:32,360
that sends a very different
message to the students.

2435
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:37,460
We have a All Star and
Trans Inclusive care

2436
01:31:37,460 --> 01:31:39,650
on campus that students
can start hormone therapy

2437
01:31:39,650 --> 01:31:42,020
on campus and have that pricing.

2438
01:31:42,020 --> 01:31:43,250
Then they work with
the counseling office.

2439
01:31:43,250 --> 01:31:44,390
We have a psychiatrist
who can do

2440
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:46,280
the W Path letters so
they can then start home

2441
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:48,200
wal care on campus and receive

2442
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:49,700
those services and they don't
have to worry about driving

2443
01:31:49,700 --> 01:31:51,695
to Atlanta to start
that service.

2444
01:31:51,695 --> 01:31:54,500
We have with care, our housing,

2445
01:31:54,500 --> 01:31:58,040
so we have the emergency
housing where we

2446
01:31:58,040 --> 01:31:59,630
have a relationship with them

2447
01:31:59,630 --> 01:32:01,280
that when we have
students in crisis,

2448
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:02,720
we can get them
placed into a home.

2449
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,610
I had a student call
me one time and say,

2450
01:32:04,610 --> 01:32:06,335
hey, I've been sleeping
on the camp screen.

2451
01:32:06,335 --> 01:32:07,880
No, we don't sleep
on the camp screen.

2452
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:09,170
We got people. We got resources.

2453
01:32:09,170 --> 01:32:10,190
You are eligible for

2454
01:32:10,190 --> 01:32:12,260
these resources and
the institution cares,

2455
01:32:12,260 --> 01:32:13,760
so we can get those students

2456
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:15,965
placed and give them the
resources that they need.

2457
01:32:15,965 --> 01:32:18,560
So really identifying where
are these support points.

2458
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,110
We work to get that put in.

2459
01:32:21,110 --> 01:32:23,300
I think we've been wildly
successful to say that it

2460
01:32:23,300 --> 01:32:25,940
doesn't all have to
come from one office.

2461
01:32:25,940 --> 01:32:27,800
It really should come from
the institution as a whole.

2462
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:29,885
Inclusion is everyone's
responsibility.

2463
01:32:29,885 --> 01:32:32,075
University has been really
responsive to that.

2464
01:32:32,075 --> 01:32:36,740
>> That's wonderful.
So a little bit

2465
01:32:36,740 --> 01:32:39,185
about just life outside KSU.

2466
01:32:39,185 --> 01:32:41,810
>> Yeah. There's
life outside of KSU.

2467
01:32:41,810 --> 01:32:44,450
>> So one of the major
events that has taken

2468
01:32:44,450 --> 01:32:46,490
place since your
previous interview in

2469
01:32:46,490 --> 01:32:48,890
2014 was the Supreme
Court ruling

2470
01:32:48,890 --> 01:32:51,125
for marriage equality in 2015.

2471
01:32:51,125 --> 01:32:53,300
Could you say a bit
about your memories of

2472
01:32:53,300 --> 01:32:56,225
that event and the impact
of the ruling on your life?

2473
01:32:56,225 --> 01:32:59,825
>> Yeah. So, we always
joke about you're like,

2474
01:32:59,825 --> 01:33:02,600
oh, what's your marriage
anniversary? Well, which one?

2475
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:04,370
Like our ceremony that we had

2476
01:33:04,370 --> 01:33:06,530
before any marriage was

2477
01:33:06,530 --> 01:33:08,225
legal on a federal
or state level.

2478
01:33:08,225 --> 01:33:10,400
That was just really
about me, me and my wife

2479
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:12,875
and our family seeing that.

2480
01:33:12,875 --> 01:33:18,395
But then when was it Windsor,

2481
01:33:18,395 --> 01:33:20,225
the Windsor case happened,

2482
01:33:20,225 --> 01:33:22,130
then we were able to
fly to California.

2483
01:33:22,130 --> 01:33:23,435
That's where my family's from.

2484
01:33:23,435 --> 01:33:24,470
My brother was graduating

2485
01:33:24,470 --> 01:33:25,490
college and while we were there,

2486
01:33:25,490 --> 01:33:26,900
like, what the heck,
let's get married.

2487
01:33:26,900 --> 01:33:28,685
We went and got a
marriage license.

2488
01:33:28,685 --> 01:33:30,800
That's how I officially
got my name changed,

2489
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,540
which was a whole
process because

2490
01:33:32,540 --> 01:33:33,260
the State of Georgia didn't

2491
01:33:33,260 --> 01:33:35,420
recognize the
marriage at the time,

2492
01:33:35,420 --> 01:33:38,360
which created taxes
were not fun to do,

2493
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:40,715
just so you know, it was a mess.

2494
01:33:40,715 --> 01:33:47,255
But then when the full cetadoma

2495
01:33:47,255 --> 01:33:52,470
got pulled back
in you said 2015,

2496
01:33:53,860 --> 01:33:56,390
I remember I was at work.

2497
01:33:56,390 --> 01:33:58,190
And obviously, this
case has been going on.

2498
01:33:58,190 --> 01:33:59,495
We've been having
oral arguments.

2499
01:33:59,495 --> 01:34:00,560
Every day I was printing

2500
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:03,575
the transcripts and having
them set on the desk.

2501
01:34:03,575 --> 01:34:06,380
I was listening to the Supreme
Court cases in my office.

2502
01:34:06,380 --> 01:34:08,570
Not a lot of actual work
happened those days

2503
01:34:08,570 --> 01:34:11,000
because that's where
I was focused in on.

2504
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,855
I mean, it was my job
to know these things.

2505
01:34:13,855 --> 01:34:18,825
And then when the
decision came out,

2506
01:34:18,825 --> 01:34:20,880
I was sitting at my desk

2507
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:24,240
in the little 374
square foot office,

2508
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:26,610
and I just cried.

2509
01:34:26,610 --> 01:34:28,770
I was like, you
knew it was coming.

2510
01:34:28,770 --> 01:34:29,700
You felt like you knew it was

2511
01:34:29,700 --> 01:34:30,690
going to be a good outcome, but,

2512
01:34:30,690 --> 01:34:33,030
like, I know queer history

2513
01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:34,695
and a lot of times it
doesn't go that way.

2514
01:34:34,695 --> 01:34:38,370
So there was this
feeling of relief.

2515
01:34:38,370 --> 01:34:41,280
It wasn't even an ecstatic,

2516
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:44,040
it was just a relief
and tears of joy.

2517
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:45,600
And then my wife called me.

2518
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:47,730
I and was like, Oh my gosh.

2519
01:34:47,730 --> 01:34:49,470
And then I jumped up.

2520
01:34:49,470 --> 01:34:50,955
I was like, I can't be here.

2521
01:34:50,955 --> 01:34:52,770
I'm not sitting in an
office on this day.

2522
01:34:52,770 --> 01:34:54,090
I need to be with my people.

2523
01:34:54,090 --> 01:34:55,740
And I wanted to be with my
people in a way that was

2524
01:34:55,740 --> 01:34:57,600
not me being a mentor,

2525
01:34:57,600 --> 01:34:59,160
not me being with

2526
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:01,020
students in that
relationship because again,

2527
01:35:01,020 --> 01:35:02,490
I think it's one of the
challenges when you do

2528
01:35:02,490 --> 01:35:05,100
DEI work is that you're
teaching things that are

2529
01:35:05,100 --> 01:35:07,500
you and you're creating
mentorship for things that are

2530
01:35:07,500 --> 01:35:09,510
your own salient identity
and trying to see

2531
01:35:09,510 --> 01:35:11,970
those me space versus
providing for other space.

2532
01:35:11,970 --> 01:35:14,955
And I decided that was a
day that was a me space.

2533
01:35:14,955 --> 01:35:17,250
Both my wife and I
left work and we

2534
01:35:17,250 --> 01:35:19,635
met and went to midtown

2535
01:35:19,635 --> 01:35:22,410
and just wanted to be in
midtown where queer community

2536
01:35:22,410 --> 01:35:24,870
was and surprisingly,

2537
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:26,145
there wasn't a lot going on.

2538
01:35:26,145 --> 01:35:29,235
We thought it was going
to be like, pop up Pride,

2539
01:35:29,235 --> 01:35:31,170
but it really
wasn't then went to

2540
01:35:31,170 --> 01:35:32,580
the Center for Civil
and Human Rights

2541
01:35:32,580 --> 01:35:34,275
and they had something
going on there.

2542
01:35:34,275 --> 01:35:36,510
And so we went there
just to be with people.

2543
01:35:36,510 --> 01:35:37,830
And it was a really
wonderful experience.

2544
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:38,430
We talked about that as

2545
01:35:38,430 --> 01:35:39,630
our third time that
we got married.

2546
01:35:39,630 --> 01:35:40,710
We didn't actually
have a ceremony,

2547
01:35:40,710 --> 01:35:41,850
but it got recognized.

2548
01:35:41,850 --> 01:35:45,030
So it was a pretty
powerful moment that I

2549
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:46,260
don't know that I
thought would be as

2550
01:35:46,260 --> 01:35:48,825
powerful for us as it was.

2551
01:35:48,825 --> 01:35:52,170
But it was nice to be
seen to be legitimate.

2552
01:35:52,170 --> 01:35:54,045
>> So you were saying you

2553
01:35:54,045 --> 01:35:56,310
filed to change your
name in California,

2554
01:35:56,310 --> 01:35:58,350
is that right? Because
Georgia didn't?

2555
01:35:58,350 --> 01:36:02,010
>> So to change my name in

2556
01:36:02,010 --> 01:36:05,970
Georgia without a marriage
license is a whole process.

2557
01:36:05,970 --> 01:36:09,270
You have to go before a judge
to file for a name change,

2558
01:36:09,270 --> 01:36:11,490
you have to post your name
change in the local paper for

2559
01:36:11,490 --> 01:36:14,640
30 days so that somebody
can test your name change.

2560
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,160
And then even then
the judge has to

2561
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:18,600
decide that you
have a legitimate

2562
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:20,430
reason to change your name.

2563
01:36:20,430 --> 01:36:23,640
Being queer in Cobb County,

2564
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,430
you don't always trust that
the judge is going to think

2565
01:36:26,430 --> 01:36:28,725
that that's the case
because there's been cases,

2566
01:36:28,725 --> 01:36:30,420
not necessarily in Cobb
County where judges have

2567
01:36:30,420 --> 01:36:32,310
decided that they have not

2568
01:36:32,310 --> 01:36:35,430
approved name changes to match

2569
01:36:35,430 --> 01:36:37,140
the name of a partner
because it would

2570
01:36:37,140 --> 01:36:39,675
be misrepresenting
yourself as married.

2571
01:36:39,675 --> 01:36:42,525
Judges have said that
that's a form of deceit

2572
01:36:42,525 --> 01:36:45,525
and therefore they don't
participate in it.

2573
01:36:45,525 --> 01:36:47,340
And so that's not something
that I wanted to go through

2574
01:36:47,340 --> 01:36:49,620
that process of the fees,

2575
01:36:49,620 --> 01:36:51,465
but also the
humiliation of being

2576
01:36:51,465 --> 01:36:54,325
told that you're
being deceitful,

2577
01:36:54,325 --> 01:36:55,670
and so that's something that we

2578
01:36:55,670 --> 01:36:56,540
just chose not to go through

2579
01:36:56,540 --> 01:36:58,655
the court system and go
through a legal name change,

2580
01:36:58,655 --> 01:36:59,870
which we're fortunate that was

2581
01:36:59,870 --> 01:37:00,950
something that we could do.

2582
01:37:00,950 --> 01:37:03,515
Our trans students don't
have that same latitude.

2583
01:37:03,515 --> 01:37:06,035
So for students wanting
to change the first name,

2584
01:37:06,035 --> 01:37:07,535
that's not an option,

2585
01:37:07,535 --> 01:37:08,705
which reminds me
to do a preferred

2586
01:37:08,705 --> 01:37:10,535
name policy as well at KSU.

2587
01:37:10,535 --> 01:37:12,260
We're the first to have
a preferred name policy,

2588
01:37:12,260 --> 01:37:13,310
so students can
change their name on

2589
01:37:13,310 --> 01:37:15,125
campus without legally
changing their name.

2590
01:37:15,125 --> 01:37:17,680
We've set up systems
so they can do that.

2591
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:21,210
But so we decided not to
go through the court case,

2592
01:37:21,210 --> 01:37:24,120
but then once marriage,

2593
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:28,455
Article 2 of DOMA
got struck down,

2594
01:37:28,455 --> 01:37:30,450
that the federal
government would

2595
01:37:30,450 --> 01:37:32,295
recognize same sex marriage.

2596
01:37:32,295 --> 01:37:35,190
What we were able to do
was go to California,

2597
01:37:35,190 --> 01:37:38,640
get a marriage certificate and
get married in California.

2598
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:41,310
Which then allowed the
federal government

2599
01:37:41,310 --> 01:37:43,380
to recognize my name change.

2600
01:37:43,380 --> 01:37:45,870
Then I could get my passport
changed and request

2601
01:37:45,870 --> 01:37:47,655
a new Social Security card

2602
01:37:47,655 --> 01:37:49,290
because those are
federal documents.

2603
01:37:49,290 --> 01:37:50,430
So I can get my name changed on

2604
01:37:50,430 --> 01:37:52,110
those documents without
question because they would

2605
01:37:52,110 --> 01:37:55,110
recognize my marriage certificate
that Georgia wouldn't.

2606
01:37:55,110 --> 01:37:57,600
But Georgia does recognize
federal documents.

2607
01:37:57,600 --> 01:37:58,890
So once I can get
my Social Security,

2608
01:37:58,890 --> 01:38:00,330
my passport changed,

2609
01:38:00,330 --> 01:38:02,295
then I could bring
that into the DMV

2610
01:38:02,295 --> 01:38:04,230
in Georgia and then
they would allow me to

2611
01:38:04,230 --> 01:38:05,820
change my name on my
driver's license because

2612
01:38:05,820 --> 01:38:08,580
federal documents that
recognize my name change.

2613
01:38:08,580 --> 01:38:11,040
So a whole lot of
extra steps and

2614
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,755
processes in place to
get to the same result.

2615
01:38:13,755 --> 01:38:17,325
But that time period

2616
01:38:17,325 --> 01:38:19,695
between the Windsor case

2617
01:38:19,695 --> 01:38:21,990
and all of DOMA
being struck down,

2618
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:23,670
it was a gray area.

2619
01:38:23,670 --> 01:38:25,500
Taxes were not fun to file.

2620
01:38:25,500 --> 01:38:27,510
I had to file five sets of

2621
01:38:27,510 --> 01:38:29,475
tax returns in a single year

2622
01:38:29,475 --> 01:38:31,320
just to get my taxes
done properly.

2623
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,825
Then after marriage
became legal,

2624
01:38:33,825 --> 01:38:35,490
the state of Georgia tried
to come after me for

2625
01:38:35,490 --> 01:38:37,785
taxes because they said,

2626
01:38:37,785 --> 01:38:39,210
You were married at the time.

2627
01:38:39,210 --> 01:38:41,235
I said, Yeah, you
didn't recognize it.

2628
01:38:41,235 --> 01:38:43,710
And they would not recognize
my federal tax returns,

2629
01:38:43,710 --> 01:38:47,085
but Georgia files taxes based
off the federal status.

2630
01:38:47,085 --> 01:38:49,155
They tried to say
that I owe taxes.

2631
01:38:49,155 --> 01:38:51,330
I said, well, no, actually,
here's your policy

2632
01:38:51,330 --> 01:38:53,580
from the time that said you
don't recognize my marriage,

2633
01:38:53,580 --> 01:38:55,110
so I had to file as a

2634
01:38:55,110 --> 01:38:56,790
single for the state of Georgia

2635
01:38:56,790 --> 01:38:59,070
for those years. And then they
never called me back gain.

2636
01:38:59,070 --> 01:39:01,170
>> Wow. That's quite a journey.

2637
01:39:01,170 --> 01:39:03,000
>> So there's a lot
of just intricacies

2638
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,710
of things the way
that life played out.

2639
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:08,370
>> Can you say a bit about

2640
01:39:08,370 --> 01:39:10,260
your personal experience
as a member of

2641
01:39:10,260 --> 01:39:13,485
the LGBTQ community
living in Cobb County.

2642
01:39:13,485 --> 01:39:15,840
And I think for a while you
were in Cherokee County.

2643
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:19,635
>> So what I consider my
Dalton years post college.

2644
01:39:19,635 --> 01:39:21,690
I was mostly in Cherokee County,

2645
01:39:21,690 --> 01:39:26,580
so we lived in Woodstock
for a long time,

2646
01:39:26,580 --> 01:39:29,640
and then we bought our
first home up in Canton.

2647
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:31,440
Was where my wife and I
bought our first home.

2648
01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:34,050
It's where we started our
family at was in Canton.

2649
01:39:34,050 --> 01:39:36,720
And we loved it up there.
We had a new build.

2650
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,060
It was our first time
like American dream.

2651
01:39:39,060 --> 01:39:39,540
We're doing it.

2652
01:39:39,540 --> 01:39:41,760
We're like adults. Long way

2653
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:43,995
from getting my water
shut off in college too,

2654
01:39:43,995 --> 01:39:45,615
and not being able
to afford food.

2655
01:39:45,615 --> 01:39:47,850
So now I bought a house and
I get a new construction.

2656
01:39:47,850 --> 01:39:49,800
Like, what? I can do
that. That's great.

2657
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,425
It's wonderful, and
we really enjoyed it.

2658
01:39:52,425 --> 01:39:53,910
We got along really great
with our neighbors.

2659
01:39:53,910 --> 01:39:55,290
We had a few moments of,

2660
01:39:55,290 --> 01:39:57,990
like, where queerness came out.

2661
01:39:57,990 --> 01:40:00,840
There's always like when we
go to this grocery store,

2662
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:02,940
we wouldn't hold hands

2663
01:40:02,940 --> 01:40:04,905
and be fully out, but
we also weren't in.

2664
01:40:04,905 --> 01:40:06,450
It was like just don't ask,

2665
01:40:06,450 --> 01:40:07,965
don't tell kind of environment.

2666
01:40:07,965 --> 01:40:09,555
And our neighbors
were really great.

2667
01:40:09,555 --> 01:40:11,640
I do remember one time
going to the HOA meeting,

2668
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:14,565
because I was a grown up and
I've go to HOA meetings.

2669
01:40:14,565 --> 01:40:17,850
And there was another
lesbian couple

2670
01:40:17,850 --> 01:40:20,490
that lived about three
houses down from us.

2671
01:40:20,490 --> 01:40:24,855
And at the time, she was like,

2672
01:40:24,855 --> 01:40:26,640
Oh, you cut your hair.

2673
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:28,125
This one of the ladies
in the neighborhood

2674
01:40:28,125 --> 01:40:29,595
walked up and she was
like, Oh, my God.

2675
01:40:29,595 --> 01:40:31,140
How are you doing? She's
talking like she knows me.

2676
01:40:31,140 --> 01:40:33,480
This is my first HOA
meeting. I don't know you.

2677
01:40:33,480 --> 01:40:35,805
But she's very familiar with me.

2678
01:40:35,805 --> 01:40:37,500
And she said something
about my hair.

2679
01:40:37,500 --> 01:40:39,930
Did you color your hair?
Something's different.

2680
01:40:39,930 --> 01:40:42,420
And I was like, Oh,

2681
01:40:42,420 --> 01:40:44,340
you think we're the
other lesbians.

2682
01:40:44,340 --> 01:40:46,680
Because we're all the same.

2683
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:48,000
She just knew a lesbian,

2684
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:49,170
and so I look like a lesbian.

2685
01:40:49,170 --> 01:40:50,700
And she's like, Oh, you
must be the same lesbian.

2686
01:40:50,700 --> 01:40:52,260
I was like, I did not cross
her mind that there could be

2687
01:40:52,260 --> 01:40:54,630
more than one set of lesbians
in this neighborhood.

2688
01:40:54,630 --> 01:40:56,910
But apparently, we
exceeded the quota,

2689
01:40:56,910 --> 01:40:59,505
and that couple moved
a couple months later.

2690
01:40:59,505 --> 01:41:01,320
So they live back to
being the only gays in

2691
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:05,340
the village. It's a
still reference there.

2692
01:41:05,340 --> 01:41:12,750
But then, with politics
being what politics are,

2693
01:41:12,750 --> 01:41:17,025
and with the 2016 election
and those kinds of changes,

2694
01:41:17,025 --> 01:41:18,450
things started happening
in the neighborhood

2695
01:41:18,450 --> 01:41:19,770
that were not things
that we wanted to

2696
01:41:19,770 --> 01:41:21,210
be affiliated with
and it's not what I

2697
01:41:21,210 --> 01:41:22,710
wanted our children to
be affiliated with.

2698
01:41:22,710 --> 01:41:24,150
Our daughter was getting older.

2699
01:41:24,150 --> 01:41:25,530
She was getting close to the age

2700
01:41:25,530 --> 01:41:26,880
of having to go to school.

2701
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:28,770
Luckily, my mother in law

2702
01:41:28,770 --> 01:41:30,840
stayed with us and still
does with our son.

2703
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:32,835
So she didn't have to do school.

2704
01:41:32,835 --> 01:41:35,760
She was at home. But she was
getting closer to the age

2705
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:37,545
where she was going to

2706
01:41:37,545 --> 01:41:38,520
start going to school
and we started

2707
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:39,480
really looking
around and saying,

2708
01:41:39,480 --> 01:41:41,370
What does the school look like?

2709
01:41:41,370 --> 01:41:43,140
I didn't want my daughter to

2710
01:41:43,140 --> 01:41:45,405
have the experience
that I had at Harrison.

2711
01:41:45,405 --> 01:41:48,345
It's not the world I grew up in,

2712
01:41:48,345 --> 01:41:51,420
I didn't want her to be in
that environment where she was

2713
01:41:51,420 --> 01:41:54,150
not intrinsically
and authentically

2714
01:41:54,150 --> 01:41:56,385
engaged with people that
are different than her.

2715
01:41:56,385 --> 01:41:58,980
I realized that she wasn't
going to get that in Canton.

2716
01:41:58,980 --> 01:42:02,085
And then we had some situations
in our neighborhood.

2717
01:42:02,085 --> 01:42:04,830
Particularly around
Black Lives Matter

2718
01:42:04,830 --> 01:42:07,545
and Blue Lives Matter and

2719
01:42:07,545 --> 01:42:10,620
the HOA signed the entire
subdivision up for

2720
01:42:10,620 --> 01:42:12,210
a political event that

2721
01:42:12,210 --> 01:42:14,010
was not in line with
my belief system.

2722
01:42:14,010 --> 01:42:15,570
And when I voiced that,

2723
01:42:15,570 --> 01:42:17,745
there was quite a bit of threats

2724
01:42:17,745 --> 01:42:20,310
and things that were
happening in our home,

2725
01:42:20,310 --> 01:42:22,710
things that are
being posted online,

2726
01:42:22,710 --> 01:42:24,120
threats to our house.

2727
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:26,565
So we decided, you know what
we thought we were okay.

2728
01:42:26,565 --> 01:42:28,800
We'd always thought like Canton

2729
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:30,120
is not as bad as
we thought it was.

2730
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:31,860
And then when those things
really came pushed to shove

2731
01:42:31,860 --> 01:42:34,380
and people were challenged
on their belief systems,

2732
01:42:34,380 --> 01:42:36,825
it no longer felt
like an environment

2733
01:42:36,825 --> 01:42:38,895
that we wanted our
family to be about.

2734
01:42:38,895 --> 01:42:40,470
And so we went ahead and

2735
01:42:40,470 --> 01:42:44,220
we sold our house and
we moved to Marietta,

2736
01:42:44,220 --> 01:42:46,020
and we're very happy
with that choice.

2737
01:42:46,020 --> 01:42:48,570
And so now we're part of
Cobb County officially.

2738
01:42:48,570 --> 01:42:51,120
But that was a year ago in

2739
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:53,550
February, that we
moved to Marietta.

2740
01:42:53,550 --> 01:42:56,535
>> So markedly
different experience.

2741
01:42:56,535 --> 01:42:57,915
>> Markedly different, yes.

2742
01:42:57,915 --> 01:43:01,720
And intentionally, so that's
something that we wanted,

2743
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:05,955
my wife is from Blue
Ridge, Georgia,

2744
01:43:05,955 --> 01:43:08,700
and she grew up where nobody
was ever different than her.

2745
01:43:08,700 --> 01:43:09,570
And so there was a lot of

2746
01:43:09,570 --> 01:43:11,130
culture shock for
her when she came to

2747
01:43:11,130 --> 01:43:12,780
college to see all
these different people

2748
01:43:12,780 --> 01:43:14,280
from different experiences.

2749
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:17,490
Whereas I'm walking going,
This is not all that diverse.

2750
01:43:17,490 --> 01:43:20,400
So we had a very different
set of experiences.

2751
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:22,560
And that was something

2752
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:23,910
that was really
important for me and

2753
01:43:23,910 --> 01:43:27,410
our children was that
diversity is not the novelty.

2754
01:43:27,410 --> 01:43:28,745
It's not the exception,

2755
01:43:28,745 --> 01:43:33,260
but it is truly part of
the holistic experience.

2756
01:43:33,260 --> 01:43:36,080
I also wanted her to
be inclusive included.

2757
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:38,525
She's a little girl
with two moms.

2758
01:43:38,525 --> 01:43:41,825
I didn't want her to feel like
odd and different either.

2759
01:43:41,825 --> 01:43:42,620
And I didn't want her to make

2760
01:43:42,620 --> 01:43:44,345
other people feel
odd and different.

2761
01:43:44,345 --> 01:43:46,025
And so being really

2762
01:43:46,025 --> 01:43:47,600
intentional about where
she would be going

2763
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:48,950
to school and what
that community looked

2764
01:43:48,950 --> 01:43:50,450
like was really important to us.

2765
01:43:50,450 --> 01:43:54,600
We're in unincorporated Cobb
County. That's where we are.

2766
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:58,800
>> So what changes would

2767
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,770
you still like to
see in this area?

2768
01:44:01,770 --> 01:44:06,105
I think Cobb County has
changed some over time.

2769
01:44:06,105 --> 01:44:08,535
But what changes would you
still like to see in terms of

2770
01:44:08,535 --> 01:44:11,730
the area being more
accepting and affirming?

2771
01:44:11,730 --> 01:44:14,650
>> I don't know that I know.

2772
01:44:15,710 --> 01:44:18,840
I think I'll know once my
daughter gets into real school.

2773
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:21,465
I think that's for me and
that's where I am in life.

2774
01:44:21,465 --> 01:44:24,420
I think your perspective changes

2775
01:44:24,420 --> 01:44:26,400
where you are in life
and what you see,

2776
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:29,100
because we're all narrowed
in on our own vision.

2777
01:44:29,100 --> 01:44:32,495
I think politically speaking,

2778
01:44:32,495 --> 01:44:35,195
I enjoy following
Cobb County politics

2779
01:44:35,195 --> 01:44:37,010
and the history and how the
changes of politics have

2780
01:44:37,010 --> 01:44:38,450
happened in the county
because it's had

2781
01:44:38,450 --> 01:44:40,760
such a direct impact on
my lived experience in

2782
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:42,770
terms of the work that I do and

2783
01:44:42,770 --> 01:44:44,945
where I do and how I
do and who has to say,

2784
01:44:44,945 --> 01:44:48,030
and who supports and
doesn't support that work.

2785
01:44:48,030 --> 01:44:50,970
A lot of my understanding of

2786
01:44:50,970 --> 01:44:54,570
belonging in Cobb County

2787
01:44:54,570 --> 01:44:57,270
revolves around my
KSU experience.

2788
01:44:57,270 --> 01:44:59,130
Because I'm a home
body. Once I'm

2789
01:44:59,130 --> 01:45:00,480
at home, I don't leave home.

2790
01:45:00,480 --> 01:45:02,920
I got my little
neighborhood and I'm fine.

2791
01:45:03,980 --> 01:45:07,410
So I think there's been a lot
of positive change in terms

2792
01:45:07,410 --> 01:45:10,440
of the representation of

2793
01:45:10,440 --> 01:45:14,025
Cobb County and then
it's not as it has been,

2794
01:45:14,025 --> 01:45:16,410
so Cobb County had a lot of

2795
01:45:16,410 --> 01:45:19,785
transition in around
the Goldwater campaign.

2796
01:45:19,785 --> 01:45:21,690
And then it became so normalized

2797
01:45:21,690 --> 01:45:22,860
that we assume that's
always what it's going

2798
01:45:22,860 --> 01:45:24,450
to be and there's a
lot more diversity and

2799
01:45:24,450 --> 01:45:28,140
political identity inside
of Cobb County politics.

2800
01:45:28,140 --> 01:45:29,370
But there's some
interesting things that are

2801
01:45:29,370 --> 01:45:31,095
going on East Cobb cityhood.

2802
01:45:31,095 --> 01:45:32,955
That's a really
interesting debate.

2803
01:45:32,955 --> 01:45:34,350
My neighborhood is on the line,

2804
01:45:34,350 --> 01:45:35,700
so half my
neighborhood is up for

2805
01:45:35,700 --> 01:45:38,235
cityhood and my half,
thankfully, is not.

2806
01:45:38,235 --> 01:45:40,050
So It's a really
interesting divide to

2807
01:45:40,050 --> 01:45:42,300
see how people see that
and the reasons that they

2808
01:45:42,300 --> 01:45:44,940
find for wanting to

2809
01:45:44,940 --> 01:45:47,520
go into cityhood I think
it is an interesting idea.

2810
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:49,140
It has nothing to
do with queerness.

2811
01:45:49,140 --> 01:45:52,020
But again, queerness
is an extension of

2812
01:45:52,020 --> 01:45:53,565
all other forms of

2813
01:45:53,565 --> 01:45:56,250
marginalization and
underrepresented identity,

2814
01:45:56,250 --> 01:45:58,140
and so you can't look at
one without looking at the

2815
01:45:58,140 --> 01:45:59,865
other and this concern about

2816
01:45:59,865 --> 01:46:01,980
apartments and things like

2817
01:46:01,980 --> 01:46:04,440
that and lowering of
property values and

2818
01:46:04,440 --> 01:46:06,300
all these things as
reasons for advocating for

2819
01:46:06,300 --> 01:46:10,020
cityhood to advocate for
people to not be included.

2820
01:46:10,020 --> 01:46:12,210
I don't know if that's
a positive move

2821
01:46:12,210 --> 01:46:14,655
for Cobb County.
But that's just me.

2822
01:46:14,655 --> 01:46:17,145
Those are things
that I think that

2823
01:46:17,145 --> 01:46:19,260
pushing people to
see beyond their

2824
01:46:19,260 --> 01:46:21,090
own lived moment to
see the bigger picture

2825
01:46:21,090 --> 01:46:23,445
of how and why they feel
certain things are happening,

2826
01:46:23,445 --> 01:46:24,840
I think it is still an
important thing to do.

2827
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:25,905
Which is why I love teaching.

2828
01:46:25,905 --> 01:46:27,090
And helping people engaging in

2829
01:46:27,090 --> 01:46:28,200
those critical
thinking skills to

2830
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:30,135
question the moment at hand.

2831
01:46:30,135 --> 01:46:33,345
But I don't know if there's
locally any policies.

2832
01:46:33,345 --> 01:46:34,680
I think there's a lot going on

2833
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,470
nationally and a lot of
trying to undo changes

2834
01:46:37,470 --> 01:46:40,290
that were made very swiftly in

2835
01:46:40,290 --> 01:46:41,640
the previous administration and

2836
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:42,360
trying to figure out how do

2837
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:43,500
you pull those things back

2838
01:46:43,500 --> 01:46:45,450
and get them back in alignment.

2839
01:46:45,450 --> 01:46:47,385
>> How would you compare

2840
01:46:47,385 --> 01:46:50,580
the KSU campus and
community to the rest of

2841
01:46:50,580 --> 01:46:52,860
Cobb County when
it comes to being

2842
01:46:52,860 --> 01:46:56,655
accepting and reforming space
for the LGBTQ community?

2843
01:46:56,655 --> 01:46:58,860
>> I don't know that I
know. I'm not involved.

2844
01:46:58,860 --> 01:47:01,020
[LAUGHTER] Like I said,

2845
01:47:01,020 --> 01:47:03,090
I pick up my
daughter from school

2846
01:47:03,090 --> 01:47:05,385
and I go home and
I cook and I do.

2847
01:47:05,385 --> 01:47:07,950
And so I'm not really necessarily
very actively engaged

2848
01:47:07,950 --> 01:47:12,240
in the community, now.

2849
01:47:12,240 --> 01:47:14,040
There's not enough hours
in the day between work

2850
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:16,245
and keeping up with
a four-year-old,

2851
01:47:16,245 --> 01:47:17,190
and a one-year-old,

2852
01:47:17,190 --> 01:47:19,480
there's just not enough
time in the day.

2853
01:47:20,930 --> 01:47:23,490
All I know is I feel

2854
01:47:23,490 --> 01:47:25,950
welcome and included and
safe in my neighborhood.

2855
01:47:25,950 --> 01:47:27,990
I've met my neighbors.

2856
01:47:27,990 --> 01:47:29,670
I'm also at a stage in my life

2857
01:47:29,670 --> 01:47:31,815
where I'm much more
comfortable with who I am.

2858
01:47:31,815 --> 01:47:34,485
And so I'm not apologetic

2859
01:47:34,485 --> 01:47:37,680
about who I am and
what my family does.

2860
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:40,200
And it's not a space where

2861
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:43,840
I feel like I'm going
to give that ground.

2862
01:47:43,910 --> 01:47:46,500
And I think overwhelmingly,

2863
01:47:46,500 --> 01:47:48,240
I chose to live there
knowing what I was

2864
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:50,340
leaving and what I
was coming into.

2865
01:47:50,340 --> 01:47:52,600
And I think those
are things that

2866
01:47:52,940 --> 01:47:56,205
I made that decision thinking
I would be comfortable.

2867
01:47:56,205 --> 01:47:59,860
So I've not experienced
anything bad yet.

2868
01:47:59,960 --> 01:48:02,100
I put that yet on there. I think

2869
01:48:02,100 --> 01:48:03,270
that's indicative
of the experience.

2870
01:48:03,270 --> 01:48:04,320
I expect that at some point

2871
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:05,850
somebody's going
to treat me badly.

2872
01:48:05,850 --> 01:48:07,425
And that's why I
tell my students,

2873
01:48:07,425 --> 01:48:09,585
when I was in the center,
sometimes it sucks to be gay.

2874
01:48:09,585 --> 01:48:11,040
People are going to
treat you badly.

2875
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:12,420
People are going
to do mean things.

2876
01:48:12,420 --> 01:48:15,510
And that's part of life.

2877
01:48:15,510 --> 01:48:17,880
It's not right, but it's true.

2878
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,040
People are not always
treated fairly.

2879
01:48:20,040 --> 01:48:23,070
>> Is there anything else
you'd like to share about

2880
01:48:23,070 --> 01:48:25,440
your personal experience working

2881
01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:28,035
for KSU that we
haven't covered today?

2882
01:48:28,035 --> 01:48:30,910
>> I think we've covered
a lot of ground.

2883
01:48:31,310 --> 01:48:35,025
I think it's cliche
and I feel like,

2884
01:48:35,025 --> 01:48:36,675
Oh, she works here.

2885
01:48:36,675 --> 01:48:38,040
But I think the
reason I keep coming

2886
01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:39,000
back to KSU was like,

2887
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,310
this is a place that
I felt like home.

2888
01:48:41,310 --> 01:48:43,635
And that's something
I didn't expect

2889
01:48:43,635 --> 01:48:45,930
coming from somebody
who didn't like school,

2890
01:48:45,930 --> 01:48:47,940
didn't like rules
and assignments and

2891
01:48:47,940 --> 01:48:50,040
homework and didn't
like [inaudible].

2892
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:53,040
But now I'm at a place
where I'm the person giving

2893
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:54,900
those things out [LAUGHTER]

2894
01:48:54,900 --> 01:48:56,670
and I have a voice
that makes change.

2895
01:48:56,670 --> 01:48:58,230
That's really powerful to me

2896
01:48:58,230 --> 01:49:00,450
from where I started to
where I've come and KSU has

2897
01:49:00,450 --> 01:49:04,200
played a huge role in
that and my sense of

2898
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:06,270
identity is intertwined with

2899
01:49:06,270 --> 01:49:08,550
that moment in that time
of my experience at KSU,

2900
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:09,990
so I think that
they're hard things to

2901
01:49:09,990 --> 01:49:12,615
separate and make distinct.

2902
01:49:12,615 --> 01:49:14,265
I met my wife at KSU,

2903
01:49:14,265 --> 01:49:16,665
I worked at KSU,

2904
01:49:16,665 --> 01:49:18,315
learned who I was at KSU.

2905
01:49:18,315 --> 01:49:21,375
They're all very
deeply intertwined.

2906
01:49:21,375 --> 01:49:24,135
>> Well, that's all
the questions I have.

2907
01:49:24,135 --> 01:49:26,490
Thank you so much for
sitting down with us today.

2908
01:49:26,490 --> 01:49:28,300
>> Awesome. Thank you.