1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,980 >> So this is Dr. Tamara Livingston, 2 00:00:02,980 --> 00:00:04,480 I'm Executive Director of the Department 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,080 of Museums Archives and Rear Books, 4 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,255 and I am here with Peter Witte, 5 00:00:08,255 --> 00:00:10,220 who is the former chair of 6 00:00:10,220 --> 00:00:14,020 the School of Music to talk about his time as chair and 7 00:00:14,020 --> 00:00:15,600 his involvement with the development 8 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,960 of the Dr. Bobbie Bailey 9 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,460 and Family Performance Center 10 00:00:18,460 --> 00:00:20,405 here at Kennesaw State University. 11 00:00:20,405 --> 00:00:22,190 The date is April 28th, 12 00:00:22,190 --> 00:00:24,260 and it's 10:30 in the morning. 13 00:00:24,260 --> 00:00:26,700 Mr. Witte is currently the dean of 14 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:28,720 the University of Missouri Kansas 15 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,980 City Conservatory of Music and Dance. 16 00:00:30,980 --> 00:00:32,600 Thank you very much for being here. 17 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,040 I was delighted to have the opportunity to speak with you 18 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,240 because you normally are not here. 19 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:37,890 [LAUGHTER]. 20 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:39,180 >> It's great to be home. 21 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:43,820 >> So let's start out with your life pre KSU before KSU. 22 00:00:43,820 --> 00:00:44,255 >> Sure. 23 00:00:44,255 --> 00:00:45,880 >> And the normal thing to do with 24 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,290 the oral history is to start with the very beginning. 25 00:00:48,290 --> 00:00:48,875 >> Sure. 26 00:00:48,875 --> 00:00:50,320 >> You want to talk a little bit about where 27 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:51,820 you were born in your early life? 28 00:00:51,820 --> 00:00:54,980 >> Sure. So I was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, 29 00:00:54,980 --> 00:00:56,760 while my parents were at music school at 30 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,920 the University of Michigan School of music at the time. 31 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,720 So, Mom is a clarinetist and dad is a French horn player. 32 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,560 And they met in high school band. 33 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,740 And tragically, three of 34 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:08,100 their four parents perished 35 00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:09,420 while they were in high school. 36 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:11,240 So the person who got them into 37 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,980 college was their high school band director, 38 00:01:13,980 --> 00:01:15,760 Seymour Okin, who has always 39 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,430 remained a very important figure in our family's lives. 40 00:01:18,430 --> 00:01:20,520 So Seymour took them under 41 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,760 his wing and got them both into college. 42 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,040 And they were in college at in Ann Arbor. 43 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:29,880 They grew up in Michigan, 44 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,320 and so they had me while they 45 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:33,595 were in college as undergraduates. 46 00:01:33,595 --> 00:01:38,700 And so Mom graduated music Education degree, 47 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,040 Dad graduated with a music education degree, 48 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,660 but was quite a fine horn player. 49 00:01:42,660 --> 00:01:44,600 So he got a job in 50 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,840 first with the Toledo Symphony Orchestra. 51 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,320 And then when I was three, he got a job in 52 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,900 the San Antonio Symphony Orchestra. 53 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:52,695 So we moved as a family to San Antonio, Texas. 54 00:01:52,695 --> 00:01:55,590 Mom learned in the early '70s 55 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:56,950 that nobody in Texas was going to 56 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:58,450 hire a woman to be a band director. 57 00:01:58,450 --> 00:01:59,730 So overnight, she became 58 00:01:59,730 --> 00:02:00,990 a string orchestra director in 59 00:02:00,990 --> 00:02:03,870 Harlandale High School in San Antonio, Texas. 60 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:07,450 Urban serving largely Latino and Hispanic community, 61 00:02:07,450 --> 00:02:08,890 and she just went to work. 62 00:02:08,890 --> 00:02:11,110 Dad played three years there and 63 00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:13,270 summers were with the Santa Fe opera Orchestra. 64 00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:15,550 And then in 1973, 65 00:02:15,550 --> 00:02:17,130 he took an audition both with 66 00:02:17,130 --> 00:02:19,470 the Louisiana Philharmonic at the time, 67 00:02:19,470 --> 00:02:21,450 and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, 68 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:22,830 and he won both of them. 69 00:02:22,830 --> 00:02:24,770 And we thought we were going to Louisiana. 70 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:25,970 I still remember this call. 71 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:27,210 We were in Santa Fe at the time, 72 00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:30,370 and I was a tyke and Mom said, what? 73 00:02:30,370 --> 00:02:32,880 Congratulations. 74 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,710 And hung up the phone and I said, so what was that? 75 00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:39,105 And she said, well, we're moving to Atlanta. 76 00:02:39,105 --> 00:02:41,930 And so we moved to Atlanta in 1973. 77 00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:43,190 Robert Shaw was the music director 78 00:02:43,190 --> 00:02:44,450 of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 79 00:02:44,450 --> 00:02:46,110 My dad began a career as Second Horn in 80 00:02:46,110 --> 00:02:47,860 the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 81 00:02:47,860 --> 00:02:50,290 And that's what got our family to Atlanta. 82 00:02:50,290 --> 00:02:54,430 And so I was aged six at that time. 83 00:02:54,430 --> 00:03:01,350 So mom taught all throughout Atlanta and Dad retired 84 00:03:01,350 --> 00:03:03,730 just in 2015 after a 42 year career with 85 00:03:03,730 --> 00:03:05,390 the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra 86 00:03:05,390 --> 00:03:08,425 and taught here at Kennesaw State University. 87 00:03:08,425 --> 00:03:13,765 And so that's what brought me here to Atlanta. 88 00:03:13,765 --> 00:03:14,990 >> He taught horn? 89 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:17,285 >> Yes, there was a reason for that. [LAUGHTER]. 90 00:03:17,285 --> 00:03:19,350 >> Absolutely. How fascinating. 91 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:21,090 So then it sounds you're almost 92 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:23,425 an Atlanta Native if you come in here age of six. 93 00:03:23,425 --> 00:03:24,550 >> Yes. 94 00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:27,240 But we both know that unless you were born in Atlanta, 95 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,130 you're not really in Atlanta Native. 96 00:03:29,130 --> 00:03:31,100 >> So, tell me about your education then. 97 00:03:31,100 --> 00:03:34,340 >> Sure. So I'm a Montessori brat, 98 00:03:34,340 --> 00:03:36,420 so I started Montessori as a tyke 99 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:39,840 here and then went to the Atlanta Public Schools. 100 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,980 I'm a proud graduate of the Atlanta Public School System. 101 00:03:41,980 --> 00:03:43,280 Inman Middle School and 102 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,060 Northside High School at the time. 103 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:47,100 I think it's called North Atlanta now. 104 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:49,060 And then I went 105 00:03:49,060 --> 00:03:51,540 back up to the University of Michigan to do my work. 106 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:53,280 And so I actually studied with 107 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,615 the same horn teacher that taught my father. 108 00:03:55,615 --> 00:03:58,870 And so, I did my undergraduate degree there, 109 00:03:58,870 --> 00:04:00,110 and then I freelanced as 110 00:04:00,110 --> 00:04:02,090 a professional musician for a while up there. 111 00:04:02,090 --> 00:04:04,830 And then I went back to school in Ann Arbor for 112 00:04:04,830 --> 00:04:08,510 a degree as a conductor and as a horn player. 113 00:04:08,510 --> 00:04:13,980 And that wrapped up really in 1996-97. 114 00:04:13,980 --> 00:04:16,830 And then, oddly enough, I came back home 115 00:04:16,830 --> 00:04:19,830 to Kennesaw State University to start working here. 116 00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:22,110 >> Fantastic. Well, why 117 00:04:22,110 --> 00:04:23,885 don't we talk about how you did come? 118 00:04:23,885 --> 00:04:24,290 >> Sure. 119 00:04:24,290 --> 00:04:28,610 >> KSU, I believe the year was 1999. 120 00:04:28,610 --> 00:04:30,750 >> That was the year. I started 121 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:32,650 if I'm remembering correctly, 122 00:04:32,650 --> 00:04:36,030 I think I started in 1998 and 1999 was when 123 00:04:36,030 --> 00:04:37,930 I started serving as chair in 124 00:04:37,930 --> 00:04:40,150 some capacity or I think it might be 97. 125 00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:41,170 But right around that time. 126 00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:47,280 So the position was a half time 127 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,400 position to conduct the wind ensemble. 128 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,540 And I remember it paid a whopping $15,000 a year. 129 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:59,000 And so I came in. 130 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,160 There were auditions over the summer, and I came in, 131 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,180 I think I recall there were 132 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:05,840 three of us who were auditioning. 133 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:14,690 And the audition ensemble was maybe more town than gown, 134 00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:16,290 a lot of community musicians, 135 00:05:16,290 --> 00:05:19,610 and the instrumentation was sparse. 136 00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:22,210 So we did our thing, 137 00:05:22,210 --> 00:05:24,570 and I met Steven Bias, 138 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:25,990 who was conducting 139 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:28,830 the then Cobb Symphony Orchestra and Joe Meeks and 140 00:05:28,830 --> 00:05:31,230 some folks here in town and 141 00:05:31,230 --> 00:05:34,175 said our hellos and people had known Mom. 142 00:05:34,175 --> 00:05:36,720 And Stephen and I had met each other, 143 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,760 I think briefly at all states or those things. 144 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,200 So we knew each other's names. 145 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,780 So I took the audition and then 146 00:05:41,780 --> 00:05:43,280 accepted the position and then came to 147 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,820 work in that half time position with the wind ensemble. 148 00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:49,180 And then during that year, 149 00:05:49,180 --> 00:05:52,260 there was the position 150 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:54,680 turned into a full time position the following year, 151 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,560 and I applied for that and I got that. 152 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,840 And that was right about the gestation of 153 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:02,900 the shift from three departments 154 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:04,880 to the School of the Arts. 155 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,440 And [OVERLAPPING]. 156 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,210 >> These three departments were music, 157 00:06:09,210 --> 00:06:10,905 theater, and visual arts. 158 00:06:10,905 --> 00:06:11,670 >> Correct. 159 00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:13,890 >> Correct. That would have been in 1998. 160 00:06:13,890 --> 00:06:14,640 >> Right. 161 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,780 >> And formerly, it had been the College of Arts, 162 00:06:17,780 --> 00:06:19,425 Humanities and Social Sciences. 163 00:06:19,425 --> 00:06:20,190 >> Correct. 164 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:21,660 >> So this represents the beginning 165 00:06:21,660 --> 00:06:23,660 of the growth of these three programs, 166 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:25,400 music, visual arts and theaters. 167 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,345 >> Yeah. And to be certain, 168 00:06:28,345 --> 00:06:33,520 it's Joe Meeks legacy with the music department and 169 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,580 David Watkins and Oral Moses and 170 00:06:35,580 --> 00:06:38,690 all these names that are excuse me, 171 00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:41,135 part of ENSA's history, 172 00:06:41,135 --> 00:06:44,740 who started to set the seeds. 173 00:06:44,740 --> 00:06:47,800 And I had an experience and a set of 174 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,100 experiences that were maybe 175 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:51,775 a little bit different compensatory, I think. 176 00:06:51,775 --> 00:06:53,590 So I'm a band guy. 177 00:06:53,590 --> 00:06:55,720 Joe Meeks is a very gifted pianist, 178 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,700 Oral Moses is a fantastic voice teacher, 179 00:06:57,700 --> 00:06:59,460 and those two areas were 180 00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:02,380 where the department was anchored at the time. 181 00:07:02,380 --> 00:07:04,960 There was not a school orchestra. 182 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,040 It was the Cobb Symphony Orchestra, 183 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,600 and some of our students played in it. 184 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,960 >> My understanding is the Cobb Symphony. 185 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,145 I think came to the Department of music in 1996. 186 00:07:14,145 --> 00:07:15,750 >> I think that's about right. 187 00:07:15,750 --> 00:07:18,880 >> My understanding was conducted by a tenured faculty. 188 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,785 >> Yeah, Stephen Bias is his name. 189 00:07:20,785 --> 00:07:26,520 And so there were bits and pieces. 190 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,220 And we were doing what we could 191 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:32,760 to make things work for our students. 192 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,700 There weren't enough students to have 193 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:36,560 a fully instrumented group, 194 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,100 so there was a town and down relationship 195 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:41,720 for the orchestra for the wind ensemble, 196 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,600 and for the jazz band. 197 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,840 And for reasons, fortunately, 198 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,280 I was not around to understand these reasons, 199 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,060 but the students essentially came 200 00:07:50,060 --> 00:07:52,980 to Professor Meeks and said, 201 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:56,000 Professor Meeks, we think 202 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,140 it's time for it to be a 203 00:07:57,140 --> 00:07:59,395 fully instrumented wind ensemble. 204 00:07:59,395 --> 00:08:02,590 Excuse me, a fully student oriented wind ensemble. 205 00:08:02,590 --> 00:08:05,180 And so that was the direction that they went. 206 00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:07,325 And that's when I came on. 207 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:08,710 And that was, I believe, 208 00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:11,250 the right decision across the board. 209 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:14,170 When you start these things, it's quite difficult. 210 00:08:14,170 --> 00:08:17,430 So the instrumentation was very spotty when I started. 211 00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:18,730 >> So, can I ask you, then? 212 00:08:18,730 --> 00:08:20,130 That seems like moving away 213 00:08:20,130 --> 00:08:21,930 then from kind of serving the community, 214 00:08:21,930 --> 00:08:23,595 at least in that aspect. 215 00:08:23,595 --> 00:08:25,240 >> In a certain sense, 216 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:31,020 and it can be, you have to make 217 00:08:31,020 --> 00:08:33,200 a decision about priorities and purposes. 218 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:38,060 And so this was the right decision at 219 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:40,800 the time in the early '90s for Kansas. 220 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,320 It's hard to remember what 221 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,590 this region was like in 1990 when you see it today. 222 00:08:46,590 --> 00:08:47,250 >> Very different. 223 00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:51,630 >> Very different. So serving our community 224 00:08:51,630 --> 00:08:53,850 is still important at Kennesaw and 225 00:08:53,850 --> 00:08:57,330 was essential then because otherwise, 226 00:08:57,330 --> 00:08:58,650 there were some musical experiences 227 00:08:58,650 --> 00:08:59,930 that our students might not have. 228 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:02,930 But there's this tipping point where you have to realize, 229 00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:06,370 we're a university and it's students first, 230 00:09:06,370 --> 00:09:10,000 and we're at that point where we almost have enough. 231 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,490 But if we don't make the decision 232 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:14,830 to be solely student focused, 233 00:09:14,830 --> 00:09:17,010 we'll never get where we need to go. 234 00:09:17,010 --> 00:09:20,470 So there's some points where you're not quite ready, 235 00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:22,150 but you have to do it anyway. 236 00:09:22,150 --> 00:09:23,910 And so I will tell you, 237 00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:26,310 I remember when I looked at the registered roster 238 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:27,930 for students in the wind ensemble, 239 00:09:27,930 --> 00:09:28,910 I think there were 15, 240 00:09:28,910 --> 00:09:31,390 and I swear eight of them played the flute. 241 00:09:31,390 --> 00:09:34,295 [LAUGHTER] 242 00:09:34,295 --> 00:09:36,130 >> So we just went to work. 243 00:09:36,130 --> 00:09:38,080 [LAUGHTER] 244 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,910 >> So you're here at KSU. 245 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:43,300 You are a full-time, now, professor. 246 00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:44,665 >> Assistant professor. 247 00:09:44,665 --> 00:09:45,550 >> Assistant professor. 248 00:09:45,550 --> 00:09:49,555 How did you become chair? 249 00:09:49,555 --> 00:09:54,910 >> Through Kennesaw's meteoric growth. 250 00:09:54,910 --> 00:09:58,930 So there was, as I recall, 251 00:09:58,930 --> 00:10:02,890 a search for a provost, 252 00:10:02,890 --> 00:10:05,260 somewhere in that time frame, 253 00:10:05,260 --> 00:10:07,690 and the university found 254 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:09,820 that there were quite a number of candidates 255 00:10:09,820 --> 00:10:12,010 who were very good in almost all 256 00:10:12,010 --> 00:10:14,875 of the things that were within the college at the time, 257 00:10:14,875 --> 00:10:19,630 but the Bohemians, the visual artists, the theater, 258 00:10:19,630 --> 00:10:21,790 the actors and directors and 259 00:10:21,790 --> 00:10:23,020 the musicians were not 260 00:10:23,020 --> 00:10:25,450 necessarily in a lot of candidates wheelhouse. 261 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:27,940 So Kennesaw made the decision 262 00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:30,100 to create a school of the arts 263 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:32,515 and put those three departments at the time 264 00:10:32,515 --> 00:10:35,545 because dance was not yet a department at that moment. 265 00:10:35,545 --> 00:10:41,545 Those three departments became a school, and Joe Meeks, 266 00:10:41,545 --> 00:10:45,265 very generously agreed to serve 267 00:10:45,265 --> 00:10:47,920 concurrently as the chair of the department 268 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,340 of music and the founding dean of the school. 269 00:10:51,340 --> 00:10:57,325 And I was new. 270 00:10:57,325 --> 00:10:59,020 I knew how to work 271 00:10:59,020 --> 00:11:02,185 Microsoft Excel and I could spell Dvorak, 272 00:11:02,185 --> 00:11:05,320 so I had an inclination 273 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,240 about administrative duties, and Joe said, 274 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,660 well, I'd like you to serve as assistant chair, 275 00:11:13,660 --> 00:11:17,890 and I'm an assistant professor pre-tenure, 276 00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:19,945 and so I knew that the answer was yes. 277 00:11:19,945 --> 00:11:24,235 And so that's how I served as first assistant chair, 278 00:11:24,235 --> 00:11:27,280 and then I think it was acting chair for a little while, 279 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,600 and then they ran a national search, 280 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,205 and I was asked to join as chair. 281 00:11:30,205 --> 00:11:33,820 >> Well, so that's very quick time period 282 00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:35,470 between the time you came to 283 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:38,005 KSU and by the time you became chair. 284 00:11:38,005 --> 00:11:40,870 As a musician, I know that many of 285 00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:43,420 us are not gifted as far as administration wise. 286 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:44,050 >> Sure. 287 00:11:44,050 --> 00:11:46,135 >> How did you feel about that? 288 00:11:46,135 --> 00:11:48,640 You said you knew the answer had to be yes, 289 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,010 but it is a different world. 290 00:11:51,010 --> 00:11:52,270 >> [OVERLAPPING] Absolutely. 291 00:11:52,270 --> 00:11:57,520 And it really should have killed me because I 292 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:03,310 was actually making some decisions 293 00:12:03,310 --> 00:12:07,975 and saying no to people who are tenured and I was not. 294 00:12:07,975 --> 00:12:11,260 And so again, this is part of Kennesaw's history, 295 00:12:11,260 --> 00:12:14,725 which is the growth is so rapid and so meteoric 296 00:12:14,725 --> 00:12:19,375 that you have to do things to seize the day, 297 00:12:19,375 --> 00:12:21,430 and they might not be the most traditional things 298 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:23,875 that you've ever heard of in higher education. 299 00:12:23,875 --> 00:12:28,090 So because of my mother's background, 300 00:12:28,090 --> 00:12:29,620 because of my father's background, 301 00:12:29,620 --> 00:12:31,315 because of my own upbringing in Atlanta, 302 00:12:31,315 --> 00:12:34,015 I had a set of abilities and 303 00:12:34,015 --> 00:12:38,875 experiences that appear to have been helpful here. 304 00:12:38,875 --> 00:12:43,330 It was different. And I still to this day look at 305 00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:45,820 administration as a thing one 306 00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:49,870 does in order to make the art that we want to make, 307 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:51,520 for students to learn about 308 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,380 the art that they want to learn about. 309 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:59,140 So I didn't wake up and decide at 310 00:12:59,140 --> 00:13:01,495 the age of eight that I wanted to be a dean. 311 00:13:01,495 --> 00:13:03,775 I'm a reluctant administrator, 312 00:13:03,775 --> 00:13:07,210 so I will do the administrative part so that we can 313 00:13:07,210 --> 00:13:10,420 create an environment where great art can happen. 314 00:13:10,420 --> 00:13:15,505 And so it was different, 315 00:13:15,505 --> 00:13:20,140 and I owe a lot to Joe Meeks. 316 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:22,990 >> And having known Joe, 317 00:13:22,990 --> 00:13:25,270 I know that he never intended to and was very 318 00:13:25,270 --> 00:13:27,760 conflicted about rising in the ranks [inaudible]. 319 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,250 >> [OVERLAPPING] Absolutely. We had these conversations. 320 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:32,170 >> But I know that he had a vision, 321 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:34,690 and he had that vision very early on. 322 00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:37,300 And I'm assuming he shared that vision with you? 323 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:47,320 >> Oh, sure. It was a long gestation, 324 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,990 and I arrived in the late '90s 325 00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:58,060 and there were some things that Kennesaw 326 00:13:58,060 --> 00:14:00,220 was still not really 327 00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:02,980 part of Atlanta as much then as it is now, 328 00:14:02,980 --> 00:14:04,570 just because there was still 329 00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:06,670 a little bit of time on 75 where you 330 00:14:06,670 --> 00:14:08,470 felt like you left Atlanta 331 00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:10,675 and you hadn't come to Kennesaw yet. 332 00:14:10,675 --> 00:14:12,085 There was this little gap in there. 333 00:14:12,085 --> 00:14:14,870 Now it's just all one big thing, 334 00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:18,460 but Joe had a vision 335 00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:22,850 for what should be and what could be, 336 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,450 and of course, these visions are crazy at the time. 337 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:30,625 There's no way that that can happen. 338 00:14:30,625 --> 00:14:33,730 The number of times I was told not by Joe, 339 00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:35,650 but by others, there's no way you can have 340 00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:36,910 an instrumental music program here. 341 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,665 We just can't do it. 342 00:14:38,665 --> 00:14:42,610 And you just keep saying, well, 343 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:45,700 the schools in Cobb County are 344 00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:52,195 astonishing in their quality with great choral singing, 345 00:14:52,195 --> 00:14:55,960 great bands, certainly, and now today, great orchestras. 346 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,705 And these kids are all in our backyard. 347 00:14:58,705 --> 00:15:01,330 How and when are we going to serve them? 348 00:15:01,330 --> 00:15:06,520 And so Joe saw the larger arc of what could happen and 349 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,890 started to get a foothold in 350 00:15:08,890 --> 00:15:11,425 his discipline and in the disciplines of music, 351 00:15:11,425 --> 00:15:14,875 and there were to be certain starting points 352 00:15:14,875 --> 00:15:16,750 in terms of the instrumental music program, 353 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:18,235 but it was spotty, 354 00:15:18,235 --> 00:15:23,635 and the facilities were nowhere near what we needed. 355 00:15:23,635 --> 00:15:29,560 And so I came on and we just started to 356 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,410 work with what it would take to get students to come 357 00:15:32,410 --> 00:15:35,695 here and dealt with all of the challenges, 358 00:15:35,695 --> 00:15:37,840 one of which was facilities. 359 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,050 So I had rehearsals under a tree. 360 00:15:41,050 --> 00:15:43,060 >> Well, that was going to be my next question. 361 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:43,690 >> Sure. 362 00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:45,970 >> Now you are chair, what were 363 00:15:45,970 --> 00:15:48,175 some of the most pressing issues confronting you? 364 00:15:48,175 --> 00:15:51,500 And as we spoke before, 365 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,880 why don't you tell me about the facilities 366 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,350 that you had available to you 367 00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:58,060 at that time and the gap 368 00:15:58,060 --> 00:16:00,025 between what we had and what was needed. 369 00:16:00,025 --> 00:16:04,825 >> So it was 370 00:16:04,825 --> 00:16:08,245 all nuts to think that we could do what we were doing. 371 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:11,710 So we had, in the existing music building, 372 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:16,030 which I think is the original plant facilities building, 373 00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:18,160 which is why the main gas shut off valve is right 374 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,220 outside the old music building, 375 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:26,530 there was one dual purpose recital and rehearsal space, 376 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:30,265 and it is about one fifth 377 00:16:30,265 --> 00:16:33,685 of the size of a Cobb County middle school band room. 378 00:16:33,685 --> 00:16:34,840 And that was it. 379 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,130 That was our biggest room. 380 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:41,185 And when we were small, 381 00:16:41,185 --> 00:16:43,615 it was almost adequate 382 00:16:43,615 --> 00:16:45,820 for the number of singers that you had, 383 00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:47,020 but the second, it was 384 00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:49,510 punishing for any jazz band rehearsal. 385 00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:50,830 And anytime that there were 386 00:16:50,830 --> 00:16:55,000 more than three instrumentalists in there, 387 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,605 it was just simply too loud, 388 00:16:56,605 --> 00:16:58,630 but nonetheless, that's where we rehearsed. 389 00:16:58,630 --> 00:17:01,210 So you had a health and safety issue, 390 00:17:01,210 --> 00:17:07,705 and then you had just the constraints of large spaces. 391 00:17:07,705 --> 00:17:10,060 Practice rooms were insufficient, 392 00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:12,040 the teaching studios were insufficient. 393 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,215 There was no way that this should work, 394 00:17:14,215 --> 00:17:15,940 but it was all that we had. 395 00:17:15,940 --> 00:17:19,750 And so we made a decision to grow, and quite literally, 396 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:21,520 I would conduct the brass ensemble under 397 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,250 the big tree underneath on Friday afternoons, 398 00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:26,455 because that was the only available space. 399 00:17:26,455 --> 00:17:27,490 >> The big tree is still there. 400 00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:28,600 >> The big tree is still there. 401 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,890 And so when I drive by, 402 00:17:29,890 --> 00:17:31,300 when I was coming to campus today, 403 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:37,330 I still remember these little moments of craziness. 404 00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:38,530 And then all of our performances 405 00:17:38,530 --> 00:17:40,030 were in Stillwell at the time, 406 00:17:40,030 --> 00:17:43,675 so there was this detente between the theater program 407 00:17:43,675 --> 00:17:45,370 and the music program about 408 00:17:45,370 --> 00:17:47,620 who could get into Stillwell, 409 00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:49,240 and sometimes that was 410 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,205 smooth and sometimes that was bumpy. 411 00:17:51,205 --> 00:17:56,620 And so we would negotiate space in Stillwell, 412 00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:58,060 and Stillwell, at the time was 413 00:17:58,060 --> 00:18:00,370 the biggest public convening space 414 00:18:00,370 --> 00:18:02,560 on campus that was not athletic. 415 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,845 Maybe 350 seats, and it's fan-shaped, 416 00:18:05,845 --> 00:18:08,755 and it's okay for the spoken word, 417 00:18:08,755 --> 00:18:10,120 which means it's terrible for 418 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,205 music because it's dry as dust, 419 00:18:12,205 --> 00:18:14,275 which is what you want for the spoken word. 420 00:18:14,275 --> 00:18:16,750 So we had to get everything 421 00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:19,120 like an acoustic shell in order to get any resonance. 422 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:25,225 So the facilities crunch was something we had to fix. 423 00:18:25,225 --> 00:18:27,700 The other part was we had to get 424 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,480 an instrumental faculty that would draw students to us. 425 00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:36,910 And Joe had crazy ideas, 426 00:18:36,910 --> 00:18:39,130 and I added my crazy ideas to Joe's, 427 00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:40,930 and we would talk about all of these sorts of things. 428 00:18:40,930 --> 00:18:43,160 But we had to shift 429 00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:48,385 to a faculty that would recruit students. 430 00:18:48,385 --> 00:18:50,200 Why should I go to Kennesaw? 431 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,300 The first answer was because you could 432 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,445 study Trumpet with Mark Hughes. 433 00:18:54,445 --> 00:18:56,845 And remember my background, 434 00:18:56,845 --> 00:18:59,050 I knew all the music educators in 435 00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:01,270 Cobb County because my mother taught orchestra at 436 00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:03,760 Wheeler High School while she was here and 437 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,310 was president of the Georgia Music Educators Association. 438 00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:07,915 So everybody knew Arlene Witte. 439 00:19:07,915 --> 00:19:09,580 And so I knew all the 440 00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:11,515 music educators from that side of it. 441 00:19:11,515 --> 00:19:14,545 From the professional music-making side, 442 00:19:14,545 --> 00:19:16,705 I grew up as an orchestra brat. 443 00:19:16,705 --> 00:19:18,655 I knew all the guys in the orchestra 444 00:19:18,655 --> 00:19:20,200 and women. I knew all the people. 445 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,675 I use that in the gender-neutral sense, 446 00:19:22,675 --> 00:19:25,405 all the people in the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 447 00:19:25,405 --> 00:19:28,420 And so that was a pretty unique Rolodex at the time. 448 00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:30,970 So I called up Mark and said, 449 00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:33,580 Mark, he grew up in Henry County. 450 00:19:33,580 --> 00:19:35,890 He's a Georgia guy 451 00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:38,500 and went up to Northwestern brilliant trumpet player. 452 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:39,550 He's the principal trumpet of the 453 00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:40,930 Houston Symphony Orchestra today. 454 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:42,860 And I said, Mark, would you teach at Kennesaw? 455 00:19:42,860 --> 00:19:45,210 And honestly, at the time, 456 00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:47,205 that was a funny thing to say 457 00:19:47,205 --> 00:19:49,905 to a musician in the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 458 00:19:49,905 --> 00:19:51,840 >> Why was he here that day? 459 00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:55,900 >> Because in the instrumental area, 460 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:58,825 we were not seen as a player yet. 461 00:19:58,825 --> 00:20:05,590 Remember, this is the late '90s in Georgia, 462 00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:10,000 in my own high school upbringing, 463 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,950 I played in Allstate and I played with 464 00:20:11,950 --> 00:20:13,240 the Atlanta Symphony Youth Orchestra 465 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,410 and all those sorts of things. 466 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:19,000 The most privileged kids who 467 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,640 had great instruments and families who could afford 468 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,130 lessons and all the elements 469 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:27,160 that help students get terrific. 470 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,350 By and large, all of 471 00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:32,335 those students left the state of Georgia to go study. 472 00:20:32,335 --> 00:20:35,875 It was very rare for a student to stay in state. 473 00:20:35,875 --> 00:20:36,340 >> Really? 474 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:39,820 >> Yeah. And that's completely 475 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:44,425 flipped because of the Hope scholarship. 476 00:20:44,425 --> 00:20:48,505 And now the University of Georgia System schools 477 00:20:48,505 --> 00:20:51,410 are challenging to get into. 478 00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:59,570 All of these things were happening at the same time. 479 00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:05,530 We were no longer an exporter of college students. 480 00:21:05,530 --> 00:21:07,495 We were retainer of college students, 481 00:21:07,495 --> 00:21:10,030 the ones that we made in our terrific public schools. 482 00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:13,630 And so all of this was happening at the same time. 483 00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:16,390 But when we called Mark to pick one, 484 00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:20,260 or Doug Summer or Christina Smith, Doug passed away. 485 00:21:20,260 --> 00:21:21,640 He's the string-based faculty member, 486 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,815 but Christina is on the faculty here today. 487 00:21:23,815 --> 00:21:25,030 She's the principal flute of 488 00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:26,170 the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 489 00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:28,060 She has played Principal Flute with the LA Phil. 490 00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:29,350 She's played Principal Flute with 491 00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:31,390 the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, 492 00:21:31,390 --> 00:21:33,040 and Kennesaw State University students 493 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,135 get to study with her. 494 00:21:34,135 --> 00:21:36,235 I'm proud of that. 495 00:21:36,235 --> 00:21:42,910 And so we had to get Mark on and Mark had 496 00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:46,000 enough pride about making something great in Georgia, 497 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,415 as did I. I said, let's try it. 498 00:21:48,415 --> 00:21:52,135 And we took students and just started working with them. 499 00:21:52,135 --> 00:21:55,270 And then I think Doug Summer came on. 500 00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:58,180 And with each great faculty member 501 00:21:58,180 --> 00:21:59,650 in the instrumental area that we brought on, 502 00:21:59,650 --> 00:22:00,910 the next one was easier. 503 00:22:00,910 --> 00:22:02,770 And then, again, we hit a tipping point 504 00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:06,775 where there were something was happening at Kennesaw. 505 00:22:06,775 --> 00:22:12,340 And then we started to acquire full-time faculty, 506 00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:15,445 and it started to cohere as a group. 507 00:22:15,445 --> 00:22:17,080 So a long-winded answer, 508 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,805 but the first challenge was 509 00:22:18,805 --> 00:22:21,400 facilities and the second challenge was 510 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,850 a musical culture that 511 00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:27,955 was holistic and filled with pride. 512 00:22:27,955 --> 00:22:29,680 >> So building that musical culture 513 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:30,640 and bringing people on board, 514 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,460 of course, means adding additional lines. 515 00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:34,315 >> Right. 516 00:22:34,315 --> 00:22:36,235 >> And can you speak to that? 517 00:22:36,235 --> 00:22:39,550 Was there money floating around for this? I suspect not. 518 00:22:39,550 --> 00:22:45,680 >> It was different than now, certainly. 519 00:22:46,290 --> 00:22:49,210 Again, the enrolments in 520 00:22:49,210 --> 00:22:50,590 the university system of Georgia 521 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:52,310 were growing like a weed. 522 00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:57,045 And the challenge during 523 00:22:57,045 --> 00:22:58,905 my time here at Kennesaw 524 00:22:58,905 --> 00:23:01,245 was very different than the challenges in Missouri. 525 00:23:01,245 --> 00:23:02,520 The challenges in Kennesaw, 526 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,840 probably still to this day. 527 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:07,455 The overarching question is, 528 00:23:07,455 --> 00:23:08,550 oh my gosh, what are we going to do 529 00:23:08,550 --> 00:23:09,705 with all these students? 530 00:23:09,705 --> 00:23:11,600 They just keep coming, 531 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,435 and there's nowhere to put them. 532 00:23:13,435 --> 00:23:16,210 That's a problem but I would suggest it's 533 00:23:16,210 --> 00:23:19,300 absolutely the best problem to have in higher education. 534 00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:21,370 There are a whole bunch of institutions in 535 00:23:21,370 --> 00:23:23,560 the heartland who have the opposite problem, 536 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,730 which is where are all the students. 537 00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:27,600 There are too many schools and not enough kids. 538 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,040 In Georgia, there are too many 539 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,105 kids and not enough schools. 540 00:23:30,105 --> 00:23:32,055 Okay. So that's a benefit to 541 00:23:32,055 --> 00:23:35,010 Kennesaw in the aggregate as we see today. 542 00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:39,375 But the real challenge 543 00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:41,910 was figuring out which lines 544 00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:44,445 had to be full-time and which lines could be part-time. 545 00:23:44,445 --> 00:23:47,405 And we made, I believe the right decision, 546 00:23:47,405 --> 00:23:51,910 which was our regional competitor, Georgia State, 547 00:23:51,910 --> 00:23:53,200 and I'm dear friends with a number 548 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,565 of people at Georgia State 549 00:23:54,565 --> 00:23:58,180 had a relationship with 550 00:23:58,180 --> 00:23:59,950 members of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, 551 00:23:59,950 --> 00:24:01,060 many of whom were actually 552 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:03,400 alumni of Georgia State University 553 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,155 but that hadn't really seized as fully as it could. 554 00:24:08,155 --> 00:24:10,900 And for reasons I disagree with a lot of kids in 555 00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:12,310 the burbs were not willing to go 556 00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:13,825 downtown to study at Georgia State. 557 00:24:13,825 --> 00:24:15,940 And that, while I disagree with it was 558 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:18,850 beneficial to Kennesaw State University. 559 00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:24,730 And so we started to use some of those assets and say, 560 00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:27,850 there is no trumpet player in America that we 561 00:24:27,850 --> 00:24:29,470 could hire full time that 562 00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:31,495 would be as strong as Mark Hughes. 563 00:24:31,495 --> 00:24:34,690 And this could be a distinctive feature 564 00:24:34,690 --> 00:24:36,685 of an emerging school of music, 565 00:24:36,685 --> 00:24:38,245 being able to study with Christina, 566 00:24:38,245 --> 00:24:39,700 being able to study with Mark Hughes, 567 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,635 being able to study with John Lowless, 568 00:24:41,635 --> 00:24:43,675 these great musicians here. 569 00:24:43,675 --> 00:24:45,445 And so we started to assemble them. 570 00:24:45,445 --> 00:24:49,180 But you had to have a number of full-time people. 571 00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:51,250 And so, when do you balance this? 572 00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:54,220 And Joe Eller was an early faculty member on clarinet. 573 00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:55,810 Fantastic musician. 574 00:24:55,810 --> 00:24:58,540 He got hired away to the University of South Carolina. 575 00:24:58,540 --> 00:25:02,725 And Mike Alexander. 576 00:25:02,725 --> 00:25:04,990 There is no story about the school of 577 00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:07,075 music without the story of Michael Alexander. 578 00:25:07,075 --> 00:25:11,560 And he came on to be both the first director of 579 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,465 the orchestras at KSU 580 00:25:13,465 --> 00:25:17,050 and the music director of the Cobb Symphony Orchestra. 581 00:25:17,050 --> 00:25:21,205 And there were eight string players 582 00:25:21,205 --> 00:25:22,840 at KSU when we 583 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,945 hired Mike to be the director of Orchestras. 584 00:25:25,945 --> 00:25:29,035 There was eight. 585 00:25:29,035 --> 00:25:31,360 That was it. Two string quartets. 586 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,610 And now there are, 587 00:25:33,610 --> 00:25:35,620 I believe, two orchestras, 588 00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:41,875 and what Mike did during his tenure here, magic. 589 00:25:41,875 --> 00:25:45,220 So we tried to find the balance 590 00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:46,900 between part-time people who we 591 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:48,640 really loved and really loved us and 592 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,250 full-time people who understood what was possible. 593 00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:53,470 Susan Grant Robinson is another person you have 594 00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:55,975 to celebrate in the history of the School of Music. 595 00:25:55,975 --> 00:25:57,910 Magical people. 596 00:25:57,910 --> 00:26:01,255 >> So I'm getting the sense that it was an exciting time. 597 00:26:01,255 --> 00:26:02,410 A lot of things were going on. 598 00:26:02,410 --> 00:26:03,610 A lot of possibilities. 599 00:26:03,610 --> 00:26:05,020 So students are there. 600 00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:06,400 You don't have the facilities yet, 601 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,870 but you're building the faculty. 602 00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:13,300 And maybe this is steering in the conversation, 603 00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:14,545 but at what point then, 604 00:26:14,545 --> 00:26:16,090 is it time for the Department of Music 605 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:17,560 to become a school of music? 606 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,170 And what are the factors involved in that? 607 00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:22,855 >> So let's see. 608 00:26:22,855 --> 00:26:25,435 That happened actually as a function, 609 00:26:25,435 --> 00:26:28,105 this is going to sound funny of my departure. 610 00:26:28,105 --> 00:26:32,515 So there were a lot of things going. 611 00:26:32,515 --> 00:26:36,970 Remember, I was teaching as I was chair, 612 00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:41,005 not uncommon at a program Kennesaw size at that time. 613 00:26:41,005 --> 00:26:42,250 So I was conducting the wind 614 00:26:42,250 --> 00:26:43,750 ensemble the entire time I was here. 615 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:45,460 I was conducting the brass ensemble. 616 00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:47,830 I would teach oral skills if and when I couldn't 617 00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:48,910 find somebody else to teach 618 00:26:48,910 --> 00:26:50,725 oral skills in a given semester. 619 00:26:50,725 --> 00:26:53,395 We did a lot of things. 620 00:26:53,395 --> 00:26:57,070 And I was younger, 621 00:26:57,070 --> 00:26:58,870 more energetic, and dumber. 622 00:26:58,870 --> 00:27:01,690 And so I was willing to do all of those things, 623 00:27:01,690 --> 00:27:03,235 and we just went to work. 624 00:27:03,235 --> 00:27:06,070 And as the program grew, 625 00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:10,570 both of those jobs required more and more. 626 00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:13,240 And not to get ahead of ourselves, 627 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240 but the Bailey Center came online, 628 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,355 and there was developing the plans for that. 629 00:27:18,355 --> 00:27:19,390 And then the addition to 630 00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:21,955 the Wilson building came online, and there's all of that. 631 00:27:21,955 --> 00:27:24,625 So it was clear that something was happening. 632 00:27:24,625 --> 00:27:27,595 And concurrently, 633 00:27:27,595 --> 00:27:30,475 the wind ensemble was getting really good. 634 00:27:30,475 --> 00:27:33,220 So those kids deserved it. 635 00:27:33,220 --> 00:27:38,230 And I was starting to get some calls 636 00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:41,095 about administrative positions elsewhere. 637 00:27:41,095 --> 00:27:43,540 That confused me because what 638 00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:45,100 I really wanted to do is go be 639 00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:47,020 a great band director at 640 00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:49,525 a XYZ Institution, a fancy institution. 641 00:27:49,525 --> 00:27:52,885 And so I had this duality that was going on. 642 00:27:52,885 --> 00:27:54,430 And when it became clear that 643 00:27:54,430 --> 00:27:57,430 the next step for us was UMKC in Kansas City, 644 00:27:57,430 --> 00:28:04,400 I came to Joe and we cried our eyes out and said, 645 00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:09,830 the wind ensemble needs somebody full-time. 646 00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:13,240 And the administrative unit of 647 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,295 the department of music needs somebody full-time now. 648 00:28:16,295 --> 00:28:19,050 And so that's what we did. 649 00:28:19,050 --> 00:28:20,790 We created two positions 650 00:28:20,790 --> 00:28:23,130 there that I had been doing previously, 651 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:24,750 and they became two positions. 652 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:27,015 And then we said, and this is the time. 653 00:28:27,015 --> 00:28:30,310 Now, because Bailey was up and the Wilson edition was up, 654 00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:33,415 and literally everything was brand new. 655 00:28:33,415 --> 00:28:34,810 Every music stand, 656 00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:37,540 every methods instrument for a music education major, 657 00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:40,840 every chair, every riser, literally everything in 658 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,880 the School of Music was state of the art, 659 00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:46,765 at least in terms of equipment. 660 00:28:46,765 --> 00:28:48,310 And then we said, 661 00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:50,890 this is the time to make a shift to the School of Music. 662 00:28:50,890 --> 00:28:52,930 So it's a funny story, 663 00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:55,030 but we decided that that was 664 00:28:55,030 --> 00:28:58,120 the time for it to shift to a School of Music. 665 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,890 And that happened. 666 00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:04,105 And so I was on the phone over that summer before I split 667 00:29:04,105 --> 00:29:10,030 finding a music administrator who would 668 00:29:10,030 --> 00:29:12,490 come in on a one-year basis while 669 00:29:12,490 --> 00:29:16,730 the school ran a search for its founding director. 670 00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:19,150 >> So we're almost at the point 671 00:29:19,150 --> 00:29:20,485 where we're going to be talking about the Bailey. 672 00:29:20,485 --> 00:29:20,800 >> Sure. 673 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,840 >> So we talked about the need for a new performing all 674 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,480 that sounds like it was pretty. [OVERLAPPING] 675 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,615 >> Crystal clear. 676 00:29:26,615 --> 00:29:28,440 >> We talked a little about the facilities 677 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,585 that were there and how y'all coped. 678 00:29:30,585 --> 00:29:32,580 So tell me about then, 679 00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:33,900 what was the vision for 680 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,855 the solution to the facilities issue? 681 00:29:36,855 --> 00:29:39,975 >> So we knew we needed a performance hall. 682 00:29:39,975 --> 00:29:44,185 And then the question is what kind? 683 00:29:44,185 --> 00:29:48,265 And the answer is dependent upon who's in the room. 684 00:29:48,265 --> 00:29:50,170 And we also knew that we were 685 00:29:50,170 --> 00:29:52,060 not going to have buckets of money. 686 00:29:52,060 --> 00:29:59,275 And so again, hearkening back to my upbringing. 687 00:29:59,275 --> 00:30:03,070 My father, Tom Witty, 688 00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:05,515 who was teaching Horn here at the time, 689 00:30:05,515 --> 00:30:08,410 ever since I can remember, 690 00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:13,375 Dad had a he could identify what made a great hall. 691 00:30:13,375 --> 00:30:14,680 And very often, when 692 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,675 the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra would perform, 693 00:30:16,675 --> 00:30:18,460 he would perform in Carnegie. 694 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:19,870 When they went to Europe, he 695 00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:22,465 performed in [inaudible] in Vienna. 696 00:30:22,465 --> 00:30:24,955 He took auditions with the Boston Symphony York. 697 00:30:24,955 --> 00:30:27,670 He knew what it was that made 698 00:30:27,670 --> 00:30:30,490 different halls great and orchestral 699 00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:32,980 French horn players like big romantic repertoire 700 00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:36,430 and a hall that will make that magical. 701 00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:38,155 So, dad knew those things. 702 00:30:38,155 --> 00:30:39,970 And because of the way my father is, 703 00:30:39,970 --> 00:30:42,055 he knew what made each hall, 704 00:30:42,055 --> 00:30:45,685 why it worked and what made a bad hall a bad hall. 705 00:30:45,685 --> 00:30:48,175 So, I sort of had that in my head, 706 00:30:48,175 --> 00:30:51,370 and we made decisions about 707 00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:52,660 what kind of hall Bailey would 708 00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:56,180 be and what kind of hall it would not be. 709 00:30:56,190 --> 00:30:57,820 >> What were those? 710 00:30:57,820 --> 00:31:01,885 >> Well, to be very specific, 711 00:31:01,885 --> 00:31:05,900 we knew we had maybe $6 million. 712 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,555 That's not a lot of bread even then. 713 00:31:10,555 --> 00:31:13,615 So we made the decision 714 00:31:13,615 --> 00:31:16,090 that and Sing and Nuta were the architects and 715 00:31:16,090 --> 00:31:18,220 John Abbott was the lead architect and 716 00:31:18,220 --> 00:31:21,205 David Khan from acoustic distinctions 717 00:31:21,205 --> 00:31:22,540 today is the name of the firm, 718 00:31:22,540 --> 00:31:23,680 and he was the acoustician. 719 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,390 And we got in a room and we said, 720 00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:26,950 we want there to be a hall 721 00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:28,390 that works for the jazz ensembles, 722 00:31:28,390 --> 00:31:30,310 works for the choirs, works for the bands, 723 00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:31,435 works for an orchestra, 724 00:31:31,435 --> 00:31:33,595 works for solo recitals. 725 00:31:33,595 --> 00:31:37,120 And we have a $6 million. 726 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,985 And the keys were cubic volume. 727 00:31:42,985 --> 00:31:46,510 So the cubic volume in 728 00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:50,095 Bailey is the same cubic volume of Carnegie Hall, 729 00:31:50,095 --> 00:31:51,400 and that's not a mistake. 730 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,560 That's not a bug. That's a feature. 731 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,800 >> So cubic volume means just the capacity of the air. 732 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,125 >> The size of the room. 733 00:31:59,125 --> 00:32:01,735 So when you're outside and you look at Bailey, 734 00:32:01,735 --> 00:32:03,385 it's quite a big building. 735 00:32:03,385 --> 00:32:05,290 And then when you walk into the concert hall, 736 00:32:05,290 --> 00:32:07,810 it doesn't feel that large, but it is. 737 00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:10,540 And so by design, 738 00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:15,565 John Abbott and David Khan said here, 739 00:32:15,565 --> 00:32:18,535 the hall has to be this big, 740 00:32:18,535 --> 00:32:20,965 but you don't have the money for a balcony. 741 00:32:20,965 --> 00:32:22,390 You don't have the money for 742 00:32:22,390 --> 00:32:24,700 an elevator to get people up and down. 743 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:27,025 So there's not going to be any balcony. 744 00:32:27,025 --> 00:32:28,990 And you want the cubic volume for 745 00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:30,865 the orchestras and the bands to sound good. 746 00:32:30,865 --> 00:32:32,740 It's going to be an enormous barn 747 00:32:32,740 --> 00:32:34,585 with only 700 seats in it. 748 00:32:34,585 --> 00:32:36,400 It's going to feel funny. So they 749 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,250 design that soft in the hall. 750 00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:43,300 And if you look at the architectural plans, 751 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,385 there's the main floor of Bailey, 752 00:32:45,385 --> 00:32:46,645 and then there's a soft. 753 00:32:46,645 --> 00:32:48,520 I didn't even know what the word meant that rings 754 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,800 the entire concert hall. 755 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,780 And then there's a wooden cage that sits 756 00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:54,895 inside of that that's slotted. 757 00:32:54,895 --> 00:32:57,730 And so it makes the hall feel intimate for 758 00:32:57,730 --> 00:33:00,520 700 seats but what you can't see is 759 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,250 there's a cubic volume above it of another third of 760 00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:06,715 the building that just helps to make the sound terrific. 761 00:33:06,715 --> 00:33:08,350 And that's why tonight 762 00:33:08,350 --> 00:33:10,270 the Atlanta San New Orkser is going to crank 763 00:33:10,270 --> 00:33:14,305 on Don Juan and Dvorgaq pieces that are big. 764 00:33:14,305 --> 00:33:16,360 The reason it will sound good is we 765 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,130 made a decision that it 766 00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:19,825 had to have the cubic volume 767 00:33:19,825 --> 00:33:22,060 of a world class concert hall. 768 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:23,575 And I remember vividly, 769 00:33:23,575 --> 00:33:28,720 they put the architectural rendering of 770 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,150 the concert hall of Carnegie on 771 00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:34,780 the plot of the Bailey Centers design and said, 772 00:33:34,780 --> 00:33:36,370 S, these are the same sizes. 773 00:33:36,370 --> 00:33:38,545 And the acquisition said, this will work. 774 00:33:38,545 --> 00:33:40,270 So we knew we had the residence. 775 00:33:40,270 --> 00:33:41,440 One, get the residence. 776 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,135 Two, we knew we didn't have any money, 777 00:33:43,135 --> 00:33:46,675 and European shoe box halls always work. 778 00:33:46,675 --> 00:33:50,260 The musique Veron is a European shoebox hall. 779 00:33:50,260 --> 00:33:54,310 Symphony Hall in Boston is a European shoebox hall. 780 00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:56,440 >> Shoebox, you mean something that's not. [OVERLAPPING] 781 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,870 >> It's not fancy. It's shaped like a shoebox. 782 00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:00,190 It's a rectangle. 783 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:03,430 Those concert halls always work. 784 00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:04,975 It's not a myth. 785 00:34:04,975 --> 00:34:07,420 It's not arty. It's just boom. 786 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:10,315 It'll work. So he said, great, it'll work. 787 00:34:10,315 --> 00:34:12,730 Cubic volume shape, and 788 00:34:12,730 --> 00:34:15,280 square things are cheaper to build than round things. 789 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,115 So the architect said, you're okay. 790 00:34:18,115 --> 00:34:19,450 And you're not going to get 791 00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:20,680 people up and down in a balcony, 792 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:21,970 so that's going to save some money. 793 00:34:21,970 --> 00:34:25,030 And you're going to make a sacrifice about it's 794 00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:28,630 not going to have the most opulent lobby in the world. 795 00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:31,015 So we made sacrifices about 796 00:34:31,015 --> 00:34:34,315 everything except what was inside the concert hall. 797 00:34:34,315 --> 00:34:38,005 That was sacred, cubic volume and resonance. 798 00:34:38,005 --> 00:34:41,365 And if you can get resonance out of a room, 799 00:34:41,365 --> 00:34:45,070 but you can't put it in once it's built. 800 00:34:45,070 --> 00:34:46,915 So if you have a dead space, 801 00:34:46,915 --> 00:34:48,385 it will never be resonant 802 00:34:48,385 --> 00:34:50,275 but if you have a resonance space, 803 00:34:50,275 --> 00:34:51,940 you can deaden it down. 804 00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:53,380 So the accoustician, 805 00:34:53,380 --> 00:34:55,060 David Khan said, Well, that's quite simple, 806 00:34:55,060 --> 00:35:03,655 we will just ring the entire room with acoustic curtain. 807 00:35:03,655 --> 00:35:05,635 And when the jazz band is playing in there, 808 00:35:05,635 --> 00:35:08,425 you can ring the hall and pull all the curtains out. 809 00:35:08,425 --> 00:35:10,270 And it'll deaden the sound. 810 00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:13,720 So again, we had $6 million, 811 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:16,180 and the fancy schools will 812 00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:19,255 have motorized curtains and you hit a lever and it goes, 813 00:35:19,255 --> 00:35:21,715 we didn't have the money for the motors. 814 00:35:21,715 --> 00:35:23,455 So those are all hand polls, 815 00:35:23,455 --> 00:35:26,515 but we knew that the motors would never break. 816 00:35:26,515 --> 00:35:29,920 And so, those were some of the guiding principles is, 817 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,410 what sort of ensembles and what could you 818 00:35:32,410 --> 00:35:33,880 afford and what would make it 819 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,425 really great at what it did. 820 00:35:35,425 --> 00:35:37,990 Now, there were some sacrifices we made. 821 00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:40,660 It doesn't have an orchestra pit 822 00:35:40,660 --> 00:35:43,150 because when you get a hydraulic pit, 823 00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:45,265 that's a lot of money, 824 00:35:45,265 --> 00:35:47,560 and it doesn't have a percenum arch 825 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,330 so that you can hang sets. 826 00:35:49,330 --> 00:35:51,265 So that means you can't really do, 827 00:35:51,265 --> 00:35:53,575 it isn't designed for opera. 828 00:35:53,575 --> 00:35:59,425 It isn't designed for dance and orchestra together. 829 00:35:59,425 --> 00:36:00,700 It's not a space that was 830 00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:02,860 designed to do those sorts of things. 831 00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:05,260 And those were conversations we had. 832 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:09,490 People had opinions about those at the time but 833 00:36:09,490 --> 00:36:12,250 rather than build a cafeorium something 834 00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:14,035 that did everything poorly, 835 00:36:14,035 --> 00:36:15,610 we decided, we're going to build 836 00:36:15,610 --> 00:36:19,525 something that is really great. 837 00:36:19,525 --> 00:36:21,460 And I would offer, it is 838 00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:24,175 the finest $6 million concert hall in the world. 839 00:36:24,175 --> 00:36:27,100 >> So in the planning stages then, 840 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:28,510 it was you, it was Joe Mikes, 841 00:36:28,510 --> 00:36:30,415 and it was all the folks that you mentioned. 842 00:36:30,415 --> 00:36:33,370 But clearly, there were some others who had 843 00:36:33,370 --> 00:36:37,090 some desires to help out, 844 00:36:37,090 --> 00:36:38,710 for example, opera dances. 845 00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:40,735 Who else was involved in the planning? 846 00:36:40,735 --> 00:36:45,805 >> Let's see. It was John Anderson, 847 00:36:45,805 --> 00:36:48,610 and we picked the architect, 848 00:36:48,610 --> 00:36:49,690 we picked the accoustician, 849 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:51,820 and we picked those two people those two firms 850 00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:55,160 separately, which was smart. 851 00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:59,740 David Khan is a great accoustician, 852 00:36:59,740 --> 00:37:02,890 who had worked with Russell Johnson and ArtCort, 853 00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:07,525 Russell Johnson is one of these iconic accoustitians. 854 00:37:07,525 --> 00:37:10,975 So we got a team together that knew what they were doing. 855 00:37:10,975 --> 00:37:14,485 And then the faculty got together, 856 00:37:14,485 --> 00:37:16,750 and we would have conversations 857 00:37:16,750 --> 00:37:19,180 about what we would hope would happen. 858 00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:20,800 I know that Mike Alexander was 859 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,975 on board at the time and Joe Eller, 860 00:37:22,975 --> 00:37:26,815 I think certainly John Lawless. 861 00:37:26,815 --> 00:37:28,840 Sam Skelton was with 862 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,780 us developing a fantastic jazz program. 863 00:37:31,780 --> 00:37:34,360 Now, some of those guys were part time at the time, 864 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,460 but they were still part of the family. 865 00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:39,925 Leslie Blackwell in the vocal area, Eileen Moorman, 866 00:37:39,925 --> 00:37:42,505 Russell and Jana Young were with us at that time, 867 00:37:42,505 --> 00:37:44,920 and Helen Kim was with us at that time. 868 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,480 So faculty were starting to 869 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,030 galvanize because they saw what was coming, 870 00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:51,775 and we were more attractive place to be. 871 00:37:51,775 --> 00:37:54,175 And so we would talk about what it is that 872 00:37:54,175 --> 00:37:57,250 we could do and what it is that we couldn't do. 873 00:37:57,250 --> 00:38:01,945 And I will tell you it was pretty quick. 874 00:38:01,945 --> 00:38:07,465 And we were making a lot of decisions that 875 00:38:07,465 --> 00:38:09,880 we had to trust David and we had to trust 876 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,200 the architect because none of us had 877 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,715 ever built a concert hall before. 878 00:38:12,715 --> 00:38:15,370 So we read all the books that we could, 879 00:38:15,370 --> 00:38:17,530 and then we had to trust the science 880 00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:19,705 and think that it was going to work. 881 00:38:19,705 --> 00:38:22,780 >> When you said you had $6 million for the project, 882 00:38:22,780 --> 00:38:25,465 were those funds raised? 883 00:38:25,465 --> 00:38:27,235 What was the source of those funds? 884 00:38:27,235 --> 00:38:30,400 >> So Joe will remember the specifics on this. 885 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,870 It was an era when States 886 00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:37,105 were investing more in higher education. 887 00:38:37,105 --> 00:38:42,130 So the bulk of the project was actually state money. 888 00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:46,510 And so we were up and out of the ground 889 00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:48,850 and hard hats and moving 890 00:38:48,850 --> 00:38:51,685 Earth on state money, as I recall. 891 00:38:51,685 --> 00:38:54,610 And then Bobby Bailey came on and said, Well, 892 00:38:54,610 --> 00:38:58,375 what could you do with a little bit more? Angelic. 893 00:38:58,375 --> 00:39:02,780 And she and Joe Meeks had a fantastic relationship. 894 00:39:02,780 --> 00:39:05,810 And she said, well, 895 00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:07,550 what would really put this over the top. 896 00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:08,690 And so she started to help with 897 00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:11,135 some other programmatic elements. 898 00:39:11,135 --> 00:39:13,070 And principally, the announcement in 899 00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:14,660 the first concert would be 900 00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:16,745 that we would become an Altinway School. 901 00:39:16,745 --> 00:39:20,510 And so it wasn't a case where we had to 902 00:39:20,510 --> 00:39:23,810 raise all 6 million or 4 million of it from 903 00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:26,105 private sources in order to get the thing going. 904 00:39:26,105 --> 00:39:28,070 Those funds were available through 905 00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:30,065 state resources, as I recall, 906 00:39:30,065 --> 00:39:35,930 and then other donors came on to top off the project. 907 00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:39,155 >> So tell me about Bobby Bailey then, 908 00:39:39,155 --> 00:39:43,010 and how she got brought in. 909 00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:45,560 I know [OVERLAPPING] 910 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,275 >> And that was the delegation of duties 911 00:39:48,275 --> 00:39:51,530 is Bobby and President Siegel, 912 00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:58,685 Betty Siegel, and Joe had a really terrific relationship. 913 00:39:58,685 --> 00:40:02,540 And I knew that Joe had that part covered. 914 00:40:02,540 --> 00:40:05,780 And Joe knew that I knew about cubic volume and 915 00:40:05,780 --> 00:40:08,750 Shoebox concert halls and acousticians. 916 00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:11,795 And so there was a great give and take. 917 00:40:11,795 --> 00:40:12,950 He would do that part. 918 00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:14,150 Now, he was involved in the concert hall. 919 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:15,185 I want to be certain. 920 00:40:15,185 --> 00:40:18,350 But in the nitty gritty about those sorts of things, 921 00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:20,030 that was sort of what I did. 922 00:40:20,030 --> 00:40:21,830 And we would sort of report back 923 00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:23,390 to one another about those sorts of things. 924 00:40:23,390 --> 00:40:27,140 So I did not have a number of interactions with 925 00:40:27,140 --> 00:40:30,620 Bobby other than thanking 926 00:40:30,620 --> 00:40:34,355 her and making certain that she felt valued. 927 00:40:34,355 --> 00:40:36,260 And that she would come in. 928 00:40:36,260 --> 00:40:38,450 But that relationship was principally 929 00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:42,440 between President Siegel and Dean Meeks, 930 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,700 and we're just so thankful 931 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:44,720 for everything that she's done. 932 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:45,770 >> Well, it must have been exciting to 933 00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:47,480 hear that you had an extra. 934 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,910 >> Absolutely. Well, 935 00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:52,670 and in building projects, 936 00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:53,900 there's always I learned 937 00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:55,310 these phrases that you 938 00:40:55,310 --> 00:40:56,900 don't understand in Layman's terms, 939 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:59,030 like the phrase deductive alternate, 940 00:40:59,030 --> 00:41:00,500 which is code for. 941 00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:01,790 Well, we'll put it in the building, 942 00:41:01,790 --> 00:41:02,750 but if you run out of money, 943 00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:03,935 we're not going to put it in, 944 00:41:03,935 --> 00:41:05,345 and the building would still function. 945 00:41:05,345 --> 00:41:10,235 So it certainly helped. 946 00:41:10,235 --> 00:41:11,900 And what we did is we made 947 00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,210 certain that there was a rehearsal space, 948 00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:15,830 a separate rehearsal space. 949 00:41:15,830 --> 00:41:18,770 The storage for the percussion instruments, 950 00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:21,365 storage for 2D pianos, 951 00:41:21,365 --> 00:41:25,400 and acceptably sized lobby to start with. 952 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,350 Now the art museum is attached, 953 00:41:27,350 --> 00:41:29,000 and it feels much more organic, 954 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,850 but at the time the lobby was quite modest. 955 00:41:31,850 --> 00:41:35,330 And then stands and chairs and all those sorts of things. 956 00:41:35,330 --> 00:41:39,095 But very often, we just built what we could build. 957 00:41:39,095 --> 00:41:42,140 And then we would look at next year's year end funds, 958 00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:44,690 the way that happened so often, and say, 959 00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:48,530 I remember folks would say, 960 00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:50,570 well, we'll pay for the stands and 961 00:41:50,570 --> 00:41:52,550 risers out of next year's year end funds or something. 962 00:41:52,550 --> 00:42:00,200 So it felt to me like we were paving 963 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,165 the road while we were driving on it sometimes, 964 00:42:02,165 --> 00:42:03,620 but it all worked out beautifully. 965 00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:06,065 >> So the Bailey then, the plan for the Bailey, 966 00:42:06,065 --> 00:42:07,910 it was going to solve some of 967 00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:11,330 the school music challenge, but not all. 968 00:42:11,330 --> 00:42:13,880 And so tell me about how we 969 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,085 know that there is an expansion of the Wilson Building. 970 00:42:16,085 --> 00:42:18,860 And the creation of what we now have is the 971 00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:21,860 [inaudible] How did that 972 00:42:21,860 --> 00:42:24,440 play in with sort of the whole facilities? 973 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,490 >> Well, the thinking at the time with 974 00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:30,305 the master plan was that there would be 975 00:42:30,305 --> 00:42:32,750 an arts hub where Bailey and Wilson were, 976 00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:36,020 and that would be the arts district on the campus. 977 00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:38,030 And that was great, 978 00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:42,425 but we didn't have adequate teaching studios, 979 00:42:42,425 --> 00:42:46,490 a music major at Kennesaw will take 30, 980 00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:50,015 32 lessons in a year, 981 00:42:50,015 --> 00:42:52,100 just one student with one teacher, 982 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:54,185 and there should be a room that's appropriate, 983 00:42:54,185 --> 00:42:56,480 and teaching a tube lesson takes a room this big 984 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,940 and teaching a voice lesson takes a room this big, 985 00:42:58,940 --> 00:43:00,890 and two pianos that are 986 00:43:00,890 --> 00:43:04,535 seven foot pianos nested together for a piano lesson. 987 00:43:04,535 --> 00:43:06,095 There's some space needs there. 988 00:43:06,095 --> 00:43:07,265 And we simply didn't have it. 989 00:43:07,265 --> 00:43:10,670 We were rotating faculty through one studio. 990 00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:12,650 All the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra guys 991 00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:16,115 would play tag team in two or three rooms. 992 00:43:16,115 --> 00:43:18,050 It's a challenge even to this day for 993 00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:19,535 the School of Music [OVERLAPPING] Scheduling nightmare. 994 00:43:19,535 --> 00:43:21,050 Scheduling nightmare. 995 00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:23,285 So we knew we needed 996 00:43:23,285 --> 00:43:24,920 teaching studios that were appropriate, 997 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,060 and we knew that we needed 998 00:43:26,060 --> 00:43:27,695 practice rooms that were appropriate. 999 00:43:27,695 --> 00:43:29,510 And for the music side of it, 1000 00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:32,090 that was the next step. 1001 00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:35,960 And in my memory, 1002 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,795 it felt almost concurrent. 1003 00:43:38,795 --> 00:43:41,165 We were building Bailey and 1004 00:43:41,165 --> 00:43:44,060 talking about Wilson simultaneously. 1005 00:43:44,060 --> 00:43:47,180 And then the theater program needed space for 1006 00:43:47,180 --> 00:43:48,950 a black box that was not 1007 00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:51,170 Prisinia March the way that Stillwell is. 1008 00:43:51,170 --> 00:43:54,110 So John Gentile and I and 1009 00:43:54,110 --> 00:43:55,610 Joe Meeks had some conversations 1010 00:43:55,610 --> 00:43:57,635 about how we could put all that together. 1011 00:43:57,635 --> 00:44:00,320 Now, mind you, during all of this, 1012 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,320 Kennesaw had the wisdom to hire Ivan Pinkala. 1013 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,915 So none of this is linear. 1014 00:44:05,915 --> 00:44:09,395 It's all organic and it's all happening at the same time. 1015 00:44:09,395 --> 00:44:12,650 And so we were making decisions, 1016 00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:14,960 and then we knew that Ivan 1017 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,945 was doing something magical with the dance program. 1018 00:44:17,945 --> 00:44:22,550 And it was really a fluid situation. 1019 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:23,900 But we knew we needed to 1020 00:44:23,900 --> 00:44:26,300 seize the opportunities when we had them. 1021 00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:28,580 So Bailey was the answer for 1022 00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:31,190 the presentational face that there 1023 00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:33,365 be a place to convene as 1024 00:44:33,365 --> 00:44:36,065 a university for events that were cultural, 1025 00:44:36,065 --> 00:44:40,100 or Chautauquas that there is something to be 1026 00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:42,050 said for having a convening space that 1027 00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:44,450 is not athletic in its orientation. 1028 00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:46,295 That is primarily about 1029 00:44:46,295 --> 00:44:48,770 the mind and the heart and the soul. 1030 00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:49,985 And that's what Bailey was. 1031 00:44:49,985 --> 00:44:53,345 It was a galvanizing force for the campus. 1032 00:44:53,345 --> 00:44:57,050 And then we knew we needed a kitchen space for the kids 1033 00:44:57,050 --> 00:44:58,730 to cook up all the stuff that they did 1034 00:44:58,730 --> 00:45:00,440 with their teachers in lessons and practice rooms. 1035 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,110 And so Wilson was that, and it went, boom, boom. 1036 00:45:03,110 --> 00:45:06,590 And I think largely it worked. 1037 00:45:06,590 --> 00:45:09,545 >> Well, a lot going on in very small space of time. 1038 00:45:09,545 --> 00:45:11,105 >> Absolutely. 1039 00:45:11,105 --> 00:45:16,655 >> So things are clipping along and you break round. 1040 00:45:16,655 --> 00:45:19,280 For the Bailey, must have been an exciting moment. 1041 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,835 So were you involved in the construction process at all? 1042 00:45:22,835 --> 00:45:26,900 >> Yes. So John Anderson was fantastic. 1043 00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:32,210 The team between architect accoustian 1044 00:45:32,210 --> 00:45:34,595 and the project manager here on campus, 1045 00:45:34,595 --> 00:45:37,955 everybody was excited to do it. 1046 00:45:37,955 --> 00:45:42,005 And I think we all were in love with the project. 1047 00:45:42,005 --> 00:45:45,260 I didn't know nothing about construction. 1048 00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:48,170 So I was learning on the dime about essentially, 1049 00:45:48,170 --> 00:45:50,075 it breaks down to cost per square foot. 1050 00:45:50,075 --> 00:45:57,020 And so I had to trust and learn to trust, 1051 00:45:57,020 --> 00:45:58,940 and those were all good things. 1052 00:45:58,940 --> 00:46:00,350 So I would check in. 1053 00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:01,520 I would get walk throughs. 1054 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,595 I remember the walls came up. 1055 00:46:04,595 --> 00:46:06,725 They were all prefab concrete. 1056 00:46:06,725 --> 00:46:08,960 So the walls went up lickety split. 1057 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,955 So it went from a hole in the mud 1058 00:46:10,955 --> 00:46:14,465 to a building like that. 1059 00:46:14,465 --> 00:46:15,080 >> Do you remember when 1060 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,490 the groundbreaking was and they all 1061 00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:19,205 opened in October of 2007? 1062 00:46:19,205 --> 00:46:22,590 >> I remember that it was, 1063 00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:26,090 my recollection and logic would tell 1064 00:46:26,090 --> 00:46:28,400 me that it was probably a three year process, 1065 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,420 and if they were hustling, it 1066 00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:30,845 might have been a two year process. 1067 00:46:30,845 --> 00:46:32,960 I remember the weather was good. 1068 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,940 There was a lot of workable days. 1069 00:46:34,940 --> 00:46:36,770 And then they did some really cool things 1070 00:46:36,770 --> 00:46:38,180 with the construction that helped it. 1071 00:46:38,180 --> 00:46:41,375 So the walls in Bailey, again, 1072 00:46:41,375 --> 00:46:47,615 the acoustics are everything are a styrofoam sandwich. 1073 00:46:47,615 --> 00:46:48,920 They're prefab. 1074 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,530 So it's a slab of concrete, and then they put down, 1075 00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:55,985 I think it was 18 " of a fancy foam. 1076 00:46:55,985 --> 00:46:57,710 And then they put another slab of 1077 00:46:57,710 --> 00:46:59,000 concrete on top of that. 1078 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,070 So it's cement foam, 1079 00:47:01,070 --> 00:47:03,830 cement, and it's meant to sound isolate. 1080 00:47:03,830 --> 00:47:08,390 And then I can't remember how many of those panels. 1081 00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:09,620 But when you walk by Bailey, 1082 00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:11,120 you can actually count the panels. 1083 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,680 You can see the seams, and then they cut 1084 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,765 it and put it together with big fancy stuff. 1085 00:47:14,765 --> 00:47:16,460 But it wasn't like they were 1086 00:47:16,460 --> 00:47:18,395 building bricks and it went up slowly, 1087 00:47:18,395 --> 00:47:21,410 it almost by magic, 1088 00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:23,150 we had an enclosed space. 1089 00:47:23,150 --> 00:47:24,065 >> Seen overnight. 1090 00:47:24,065 --> 00:47:24,650 >> It did. 1091 00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:28,970 And I remember vividly walking into this space. 1092 00:47:28,970 --> 00:47:32,390 There were bulldozers still 1093 00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:35,420 moving earth inside of the hall when everything was up. 1094 00:47:35,420 --> 00:47:37,685 And I walked in and my first reaction, 1095 00:47:37,685 --> 00:47:39,800 honestly, was that we had made a mistake. 1096 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,085 I walked in and I thought this room's too small. 1097 00:47:43,085 --> 00:47:45,110 >> Hard to judge at 1098 00:47:45,110 --> 00:47:47,525 that point because a horrible feeling. 1099 00:47:47,525 --> 00:47:50,660 >> I was terrified. I don't think I ever told anybody. 1100 00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:52,220 I was like, I think we 1101 00:47:52,220 --> 00:47:53,915 made a mistake. I think we made a mistake. 1102 00:47:53,915 --> 00:47:56,015 And I whispered to 1103 00:47:56,015 --> 00:47:59,070 the acoustician, it's going to be fine. 1104 00:47:59,070 --> 00:48:01,195 It was more than fine. 1105 00:48:01,195 --> 00:48:02,140 >> Fantastic. 1106 00:48:02,140 --> 00:48:06,310 So the construction was pretty quick. 1107 00:48:06,310 --> 00:48:07,630 So you've got the shell, and then 1108 00:48:07,630 --> 00:48:09,280 you start putting it in. 1109 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,640 What was the acousticians role in all of this? 1110 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,230 >> David Khan, I'm going to have dinner with him tonight. 1111 00:48:15,230 --> 00:48:17,000 We've maintained a relationship 1112 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,395 as a result of that project. 1113 00:48:18,395 --> 00:48:21,155 He's very proud of Bailey. 1114 00:48:21,155 --> 00:48:23,495 It's a calling card for him. 1115 00:48:23,495 --> 00:48:25,475 The quality of that concert hall. 1116 00:48:25,475 --> 00:48:29,810 So David said cubic volume, 1117 00:48:29,810 --> 00:48:34,170 but Peter and John and John Anderson and Abbott. 1118 00:48:34,170 --> 00:48:35,860 It's the quality of 1119 00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:40,165 the silence that's going to make the hall great. 1120 00:48:40,165 --> 00:48:43,180 So for you and I in this room, 1121 00:48:43,180 --> 00:48:44,440 you and I can hear a little bit of 1122 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,270 air noise from the air handling unit here. 1123 00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:48,100 It might not be on the tape, but if I'm 1124 00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:50,780 quiet, you can hear that. 1125 00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:54,920 So that means that this room can't be 1126 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,690 a great musical venue because no matter 1127 00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:58,925 how soft I play on the flute, 1128 00:48:58,925 --> 00:49:00,245 there'll be a moment 1129 00:49:00,245 --> 00:49:03,485 when that's louder than my flute playing. 1130 00:49:03,485 --> 00:49:07,235 And so it caps off the dynamic range on the softer end. 1131 00:49:07,235 --> 00:49:12,800 So David said, the room has to be astonishingly quiet. 1132 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,330 Well, how about this quiet? 1133 00:49:14,330 --> 00:49:15,410 And there's a measurement, 1134 00:49:15,410 --> 00:49:17,435 and he would say, no, it has to be softer than that. 1135 00:49:17,435 --> 00:49:18,980 What does that mean? It means that 1136 00:49:18,980 --> 00:49:21,680 the air handling unit has to be enormous. 1137 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,365 So the ducks, if you go up, are huge, 1138 00:49:24,365 --> 00:49:27,965 and the air is a lot of air that's moving very slowly. 1139 00:49:27,965 --> 00:49:29,700 And that's why the hall is quiet. 1140 00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,140 The air locks, all these sorts of things. 1141 00:49:32,140 --> 00:49:35,830 So David was fastidious 1142 00:49:35,830 --> 00:49:38,425 and at times difficult and 1143 00:49:38,425 --> 00:49:42,230 unrelenting because he said that won't work. 1144 00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:46,760 And it was infuriating to the architects, 1145 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,040 and it was infuriating at times to certainly 1146 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,940 the contractors, But he was right. 1147 00:49:52,940 --> 00:49:57,920 And so it's not easy to be excellent. It's not easy. 1148 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,500 And so the hall is really quiet and because it's quiet, 1149 00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:06,005 when everybody cranks, it feels really resonant 1150 00:50:06,005 --> 00:50:09,065 because that range is that much wider. 1151 00:50:09,065 --> 00:50:11,285 But we talked about all this stuff. 1152 00:50:11,285 --> 00:50:13,190 None of this is a mistake. 1153 00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:15,335 Bailey is not luck. 1154 00:50:15,335 --> 00:50:18,965 It was a really fantastic team coming together 1155 00:50:18,965 --> 00:50:22,190 at a really magical time in Kennesaw's history. 1156 00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:23,870 >> Absolutely. And then the emphasis on 1157 00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:25,850 the acoustics really helping distinguish it, 1158 00:50:25,850 --> 00:50:27,770 I think, certainly no one would 1159 00:50:27,770 --> 00:50:31,170 ever read that. Fantastic. 1160 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,405 So tell me now about the opening. 1161 00:50:36,405 --> 00:50:38,175 >> So the opening was fun. 1162 00:50:38,175 --> 00:50:40,440 We did a couple of 1163 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,980 things and we learned from some national stories. 1164 00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:48,630 Here, I'll approach it this way. 1165 00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:53,415 There was a famous orchestra that I shall not name that 1166 00:50:53,415 --> 00:50:58,785 built a new concert hall for itself. 1167 00:50:58,785 --> 00:51:02,650 And they opened it 1168 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:09,435 about the same time that it became inhabitable. 1169 00:51:09,435 --> 00:51:11,490 So there was no quiet period 1170 00:51:11,490 --> 00:51:13,320 where they could figure things out. 1171 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:18,735 And because they didn't quite know how to drive the car, 1172 00:51:18,735 --> 00:51:21,030 the public reaction to the hall and 1173 00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:24,330 the criticisms from the papers worldwide was. 1174 00:51:24,330 --> 00:51:26,880 And the hall never fully 1175 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,785 recovered its reputation after that. 1176 00:51:28,785 --> 00:51:33,330 And so we knew, that's a bummer. 1177 00:51:33,330 --> 00:51:34,830 So we knew that we wanted 1178 00:51:34,830 --> 00:51:38,570 some time in the construction phase where 1179 00:51:38,570 --> 00:51:41,525 we test it quietly 1180 00:51:41,525 --> 00:51:44,615 without the full disclosure of the opening. 1181 00:51:44,615 --> 00:51:46,430 >> So you said you wanted to 1182 00:51:46,430 --> 00:51:47,600 test it before it was completely 1183 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:48,635 done or before it was over. 1184 00:51:48,635 --> 00:51:49,910 >> Yeah, we would go in. So one of 1185 00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:52,080 the famous yarns that 1186 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,360 the School of Music tells to this day is John Laws, 1187 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,315 the brilliant percussion faculty member at KSU. 1188 00:51:57,315 --> 00:51:58,920 And we brought him on early, 1189 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,735 and he's just electric. 1190 00:52:00,735 --> 00:52:02,325 And he came in and he said, 1191 00:52:02,325 --> 00:52:04,440 Peter, you want to test the hall? 1192 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,225 I don't even think there was carpet. 1193 00:52:06,225 --> 00:52:07,425 I think it was still mud. 1194 00:52:07,425 --> 00:52:10,140 And he brought these huge crash symbols in, 1195 00:52:10,140 --> 00:52:11,640 and we walked in. 1196 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,450 Big. And he just let rip on this huge crash, 1197 00:52:15,450 --> 00:52:16,800 and it just rang. 1198 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,055 And again, and I thought this room is too small. 1199 00:52:20,055 --> 00:52:22,605 Everybody was laughing and I was terrified. 1200 00:52:22,605 --> 00:52:25,110 So we were always testing to 1201 00:52:25,110 --> 00:52:28,005 see just to get a sense of things. 1202 00:52:28,005 --> 00:52:30,420 But we had certificate 1203 00:52:30,420 --> 00:52:31,965 of occupancy and all those sorts of things. 1204 00:52:31,965 --> 00:52:34,380 We knew that we wanted to do a hard hat concert. 1205 00:52:34,380 --> 00:52:36,090 And so the first thing that we did. 1206 00:52:36,090 --> 00:52:40,600 It was the KSU wind ensemble is we built it. 1207 00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:45,540 They rehearsed in there, that was by design. 1208 00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:48,960 And the first concert that we gave was for 1209 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,640 all the contractors and everybody 1210 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,550 who literally built the hall. 1211 00:52:53,550 --> 00:52:54,465 >> The acousticians as well. 1212 00:52:54,465 --> 00:52:55,920 >> Acoustician, the architects, 1213 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,170 their family, the contractors, 1214 00:52:58,170 --> 00:53:00,810 the subcontractors, and their families, 1215 00:53:00,810 --> 00:53:04,335 so that they could see what mom and dad did. 1216 00:53:04,335 --> 00:53:05,130 >> How wonderful. 1217 00:53:05,130 --> 00:53:07,275 >> And one of the pieces that we played was 1218 00:53:07,275 --> 00:53:10,710 a Timpani concerto performed by John Lawless. 1219 00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:12,690 Very difficult and challenging virtuosa work 1220 00:53:12,690 --> 00:53:16,935 called Raise the Roof by Michael Daugherty. 1221 00:53:16,935 --> 00:53:17,710 >> [inaudible]. 1222 00:53:17,710 --> 00:53:20,520 >> Exactly. And it was a relatively recent composition, 1223 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:21,540 and it worked beautifully, 1224 00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:23,130 and it was a real showpiece. 1225 00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:26,700 And then the last piece, 1226 00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:31,035 as I recall, might have been Bernstein's Slava overture. 1227 00:53:31,035 --> 00:53:34,080 And we were all wearing hard hats. 1228 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,390 The wind ensemble was 1229 00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:39,030 wearing hard hats for that last piece. 1230 00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:41,400 And it was just one of the gestures that we had. 1231 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,665 So the first concert was a thank you. 1232 00:53:43,665 --> 00:53:45,435 And it was under the radar. 1233 00:53:45,435 --> 00:53:47,850 And it was intentionally so that we could 1234 00:53:47,850 --> 00:53:50,970 make our adjustments about the hall, 1235 00:53:50,970 --> 00:53:53,340 where the curtain should be, does it work? 1236 00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:55,065 How do people get in and out? 1237 00:53:55,065 --> 00:53:57,330 All those things so that we could get a lot of 1238 00:53:57,330 --> 00:54:01,845 that figured out before the big opening gala concert. 1239 00:54:01,845 --> 00:54:04,230 >> So you mentioned some of the challenges, 1240 00:54:04,230 --> 00:54:07,035 of course, with the accostitian being very specific. 1241 00:54:07,035 --> 00:54:11,010 Were there some other construction challenges 1242 00:54:11,010 --> 00:54:13,260 that arose during this period of time? 1243 00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:16,020 >> I'm certain that they were, and I will tell you, 1244 00:54:16,020 --> 00:54:19,530 I'm grateful that I don't remember many of those. 1245 00:54:19,530 --> 00:54:21,660 I'm certain if the hall had been a failure, 1246 00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:23,100 I would've remembered every one of them. 1247 00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:24,270 >> But were there small adjustments 1248 00:54:24,270 --> 00:54:25,455 after the hard hat concert? 1249 00:54:25,455 --> 00:54:28,215 >> Yeah. And along the way, 1250 00:54:28,215 --> 00:54:32,580 I remember we remember that they put the soft 1251 00:54:32,580 --> 00:54:34,620 up and there was actually a panel of 1252 00:54:34,620 --> 00:54:37,305 curtains that didn't get installed, 1253 00:54:37,305 --> 00:54:39,435 and they pulled out all the scaffolding. 1254 00:54:39,435 --> 00:54:42,810 And so you can imagine it's probably 30, 40 feet clear. 1255 00:54:42,810 --> 00:54:44,280 And when you pull the scaffolding out, 1256 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,020 there's no way to install the curtains anymore 1257 00:54:46,020 --> 00:54:48,210 and it's like, well, that's gone. 1258 00:54:48,210 --> 00:54:50,920 We missed that opportunity. 1259 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,290 I have guilt about this is we didn't adequately think 1260 00:54:55,290 --> 00:54:59,610 about AV installation hangs in there. 1261 00:54:59,610 --> 00:55:05,340 We got all the conduit in there, but I remember it 1262 00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:08,280 was Carl Aldag at the time came in and said, 1263 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,305 well, where are we going to hang the speaker, Ray? 1264 00:55:10,305 --> 00:55:13,470 And I thought, I don't know where. 1265 00:55:13,470 --> 00:55:15,750 So there were some adjustments that had to be 1266 00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:17,865 made during that process. 1267 00:55:17,865 --> 00:55:20,820 But by and large, we got the basics pretty good. 1268 00:55:20,820 --> 00:55:24,120 >> Now, of course, a full-fledged performing facility 1269 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,550 then requires the staff to operate it. 1270 00:55:26,550 --> 00:55:27,810 And I'm sure in the back of your mind well not 1271 00:55:27,810 --> 00:55:29,235 in the back maybe the front of your mind. 1272 00:55:29,235 --> 00:55:30,925 Certainly, in the front of your mind was, 1273 00:55:30,925 --> 00:55:35,210 how are we going to operate this new performing center? 1274 00:55:35,210 --> 00:55:35,770 >> Yeah. 1275 00:55:35,770 --> 00:55:36,710 >> So tell me? 1276 00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:39,665 >> Well, we got lucky. 1277 00:55:39,665 --> 00:55:44,245 I can't emphasize enough 1278 00:55:44,245 --> 00:55:49,110 how fantastic the faculty 1279 00:55:49,110 --> 00:55:51,225 and the staff were at this time. 1280 00:55:51,225 --> 00:55:58,740 It might be my happiest time as a professional, 1281 00:55:58,740 --> 00:56:05,460 is this time around 2002-2007. 1282 00:56:05,460 --> 00:56:08,085 Every person that we brought on 1283 00:56:08,085 --> 00:56:11,580 was brilliant at something. 1284 00:56:11,580 --> 00:56:14,415 So John Curtis was 1285 00:56:14,415 --> 00:56:16,680 the recording engineer that we brought on. 1286 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,810 A fantastic sound guy. 1287 00:56:18,810 --> 00:56:20,385 And he knew. 1288 00:56:20,385 --> 00:56:22,290 Well, if this hall is going to sound this good, 1289 00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:24,390 this is the equipment that we need. 1290 00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:26,025 Well, John, we can't afford it. I know, 1291 00:56:26,025 --> 00:56:27,780 but here's the list and 1292 00:56:27,780 --> 00:56:30,060 we'll just chip away at it over time. 1293 00:56:30,060 --> 00:56:33,450 And then we hired 1294 00:56:33,450 --> 00:56:36,450 Bobby Asher away from Spivey Hall down in Clayton, 1295 00:56:36,450 --> 00:56:39,420 which is a great hall with a 1296 00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:41,850 fundamentally different aesthetic and 1297 00:56:41,850 --> 00:56:43,680 a fundamentally different purpose. 1298 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,015 It's a smaller hall. 1299 00:56:45,015 --> 00:56:46,890 It's a jewel. 1300 00:56:46,890 --> 00:56:51,375 You can't do Don Juan in Spivey. 1301 00:56:51,375 --> 00:56:53,535 The cubic volume is too small, 1302 00:56:53,535 --> 00:56:55,320 and it was not designed for that. 1303 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,450 So we designed our hall to serve 1304 00:56:57,450 --> 00:57:00,630 our students and big ensemble pieces, 1305 00:57:00,630 --> 00:57:03,195 but also would work for solo ensemble pieces. 1306 00:57:03,195 --> 00:57:08,550 So Bobby was down at Spivey, and at the time, 1307 00:57:08,550 --> 00:57:11,970 Spivey was the biznis in the university system, 1308 00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:14,220 Georgia in terms of concert halls. 1309 00:57:14,220 --> 00:57:16,140 We plucked him away, 1310 00:57:16,140 --> 00:57:18,570 and Bobby is now working at the University of Maryland. 1311 00:57:18,570 --> 00:57:22,660 He is, in my opinion, one of the great, 1312 00:57:22,910 --> 00:57:27,360 what's the right word entrepreneur and impresario. 1313 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,120 He knows as much about 1314 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,035 contemporary music today as anybody I know. 1315 00:57:34,035 --> 00:57:39,630 He's always listening, and he was fastidious in 1316 00:57:39,630 --> 00:57:43,020 the development of the schedule and 1317 00:57:43,020 --> 00:57:46,980 the mechanisms and the rules about how Bailey would work. 1318 00:57:46,980 --> 00:57:50,730 And those setup pieces are really important. 1319 00:57:50,730 --> 00:57:54,555 So there were some rules like you can't take 1320 00:57:54,555 --> 00:57:59,310 a music stand or chair into or out of Bailey. 1321 00:57:59,310 --> 00:58:00,255 >> Really? 1322 00:58:00,255 --> 00:58:01,260 >> That was a rule. 1323 00:58:01,260 --> 00:58:01,860 >> Why? 1324 00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:04,515 >> Because stands and chairs leave. 1325 00:58:04,515 --> 00:58:06,195 They go into dorm rooms, 1326 00:58:06,195 --> 00:58:09,465 and the brass players take them to their Easter gigs, 1327 00:58:09,465 --> 00:58:11,385 and they stay at the church. 1328 00:58:11,385 --> 00:58:13,980 So I remember vividly, 1329 00:58:13,980 --> 00:58:16,860 we got all of the equipment for the stands and chairs. 1330 00:58:16,860 --> 00:58:18,510 If you look in Bailey 1331 00:58:18,510 --> 00:58:21,840 today and you flip any chair stand underneath, 1332 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,130 you'll see handwriting in 1333 00:58:23,130 --> 00:58:25,515 a gold Sharpie Kennesaw State University. 1334 00:58:25,515 --> 00:58:27,060 I handwrote every one of those. 1335 00:58:27,060 --> 00:58:28,755 >> That's your life, one of your legacy. 1336 00:58:28,755 --> 00:58:31,305 >> I'm actually quite proud of that. 1337 00:58:31,305 --> 00:58:33,390 But one of the rules was you 1338 00:58:33,390 --> 00:58:35,280 can't take any equipment in or out. 1339 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,980 And so we set up some because we wanted 1340 00:58:37,980 --> 00:58:40,995 people to have pride about this facility. 1341 00:58:40,995 --> 00:58:43,530 Another rule was the students couldn't put 1342 00:58:43,530 --> 00:58:46,695 their cases on the arm rest out in the hall. 1343 00:58:46,695 --> 00:58:49,110 You couldn't put your trombone case or 1344 00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:52,275 your bassoon case on the armchairs, 1345 00:58:52,275 --> 00:58:53,925 pop it open and get your axe out. 1346 00:58:53,925 --> 00:58:55,800 All that stuff had to happen backstairs. 1347 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,180 There were zones for everything. 1348 00:58:57,180 --> 00:59:00,495 We were really specific. 1349 00:59:00,495 --> 00:59:01,620 >> Taking it to the next level. 1350 00:59:01,620 --> 00:59:03,915 >> Yeah, because we knew this was it. 1351 00:59:03,915 --> 00:59:07,050 This was our home. 1352 00:59:07,050 --> 00:59:09,165 And if we treated it like, 1353 00:59:09,165 --> 00:59:11,685 meh, it was not going to last. 1354 00:59:11,685 --> 00:59:16,110 And for the students who were here today, 1355 00:59:16,110 --> 00:59:17,745 this is what 10 years later, 1356 00:59:17,745 --> 00:59:19,995 there's a norm of 1357 00:59:19,995 --> 00:59:23,460 behavior about how you will respect Bailey that 1358 00:59:23,460 --> 00:59:27,015 exists today because we set up 1359 00:59:27,015 --> 00:59:29,010 what is acceptable and what is 1360 00:59:29,010 --> 00:59:31,500 not acceptable when the hall opened. 1361 00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:35,310 And Joe was that way and Bobby Asher was that way, 1362 00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:37,680 and John Lawless was 1363 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,060 that way about how we would 1364 00:59:39,060 --> 00:59:41,370 place the percussion instruments. 1365 00:59:41,370 --> 00:59:47,550 We just wanted it to be respected, if not revered. 1366 00:59:47,550 --> 00:59:50,370 And then the next year, 1367 00:59:50,370 --> 00:59:52,335 students would come in, 1368 00:59:52,335 --> 00:59:55,455 and it's just how people behave. 1369 00:59:55,455 --> 00:59:58,350 And so by Year 4, 1370 00:59:58,350 --> 01:00:03,030 there's a cultural expectation that we revere 1371 01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:05,070 and that there's pride in being 1372 01:00:05,070 --> 01:00:06,750 an owl and that there's 1373 01:00:06,750 --> 01:00:08,745 a certain way that we're going to treat this space. 1374 01:00:08,745 --> 01:00:10,950 >> Tell me about the reaction of the opening of 1375 01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:12,510 the Bailey Performing Arts 1376 01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:14,085 Center for the Atlantic Community. 1377 01:00:14,085 --> 01:00:18,510 >> Sure. So we had a big gala concert and we wanted to 1378 01:00:18,510 --> 01:00:21,720 demonstrate everything that the 1379 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,205 then, no still a department. 1380 01:00:23,205 --> 01:00:26,190 The department of music at the time could do. 1381 01:00:26,190 --> 01:00:27,600 >> This is in October? 1382 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:28,680 >> This is in October. 1383 01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,650 >> 2007. 1384 01:00:29,650 --> 01:00:35,135 >> 2007. And mind you, 1385 01:00:35,135 --> 01:00:38,900 we finally had a place where the Department of music at 1386 01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:42,755 that time could actually hear itself all at once. 1387 01:00:42,755 --> 01:00:46,100 We finally had a room where all the students could 1388 01:00:46,100 --> 01:00:50,390 convene and there's enough space for them on stage. 1389 01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:52,370 So this was the first time in 1390 01:00:52,370 --> 01:00:54,410 the history of KSU that we could do this. 1391 01:00:54,410 --> 01:00:56,540 So the choirs and 1392 01:00:56,540 --> 01:00:59,180 the orchestra and the jazz band and the bands, 1393 01:00:59,180 --> 01:01:00,635 the wind ensemble at the time, 1394 01:01:00,635 --> 01:01:03,005 and Mary Ackerman and Guitar. 1395 01:01:03,005 --> 01:01:04,790 Everybody that we had 1396 01:01:04,790 --> 01:01:06,845 could actually be on stage all at one time. 1397 01:01:06,845 --> 01:01:09,635 And so we set up a concert that was nonstop. 1398 01:01:09,635 --> 01:01:11,540 It would go from one thing to the other. 1399 01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:12,980 It's called the collage concert, 1400 01:01:12,980 --> 01:01:15,560 and it's a Eastman School of Music and 1401 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,690 the University of Michigan developed this and 1402 01:01:17,690 --> 01:01:19,880 schools across the nation will do these things, 1403 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,475 and audiences always love them. 1404 01:01:22,475 --> 01:01:26,510 But you go from one element to the next without applause. 1405 01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:29,330 And the light focuses first on this thing, 1406 01:01:29,330 --> 01:01:31,310 and then the light turns off and goes to this one, 1407 01:01:31,310 --> 01:01:32,495 and it's a jump cut. 1408 01:01:32,495 --> 01:01:34,595 It's a concert for the ADD. 1409 01:01:34,595 --> 01:01:38,255 And you then juxtapose contrasting styles, 1410 01:01:38,255 --> 01:01:41,090 so it's this really kaleidoscopic piece. 1411 01:01:41,090 --> 01:01:44,825 And we did a collage concert to open Bailey. 1412 01:01:44,825 --> 01:01:45,980 That was the performance. 1413 01:01:45,980 --> 01:01:49,670 And so we had Robin Johnson, who is my wife, 1414 01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:51,860 played the English horn solo from Tristan and 1415 01:01:51,860 --> 01:01:54,650 Isolde up behind stage. 1416 01:01:54,650 --> 01:01:56,885 And there was Leslie Blackwell 1417 01:01:56,885 --> 01:01:59,165 the choir singing up in the soffit. 1418 01:01:59,165 --> 01:02:01,940 So you had this ethereal sound, 1419 01:02:01,940 --> 01:02:06,395 and it was really spectacular. Just incredible. 1420 01:02:06,395 --> 01:02:09,290 And Pierre Roy was the arts critic for 1421 01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:11,660 the Alan Journal Constitution at the time. 1422 01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:14,405 He's now with the Alabama Symphony Orchestra. 1423 01:02:14,405 --> 01:02:19,560 And he called it. 1424 01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:21,950 What was the quote? I think 1425 01:02:21,950 --> 01:02:23,555 a Georgia gym or something like that. 1426 01:02:23,555 --> 01:02:30,350 He said, I'm paraphrasing here, but this is the 1427 01:02:30,350 --> 01:02:31,520 most significant large concert 1428 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:32,990 hall in Atlanta at the time. 1429 01:02:32,990 --> 01:02:38,570 And then the other ringing endorsement came 1430 01:02:38,570 --> 01:02:41,945 from Donald Runnicles who 1431 01:02:41,945 --> 01:02:43,370 was principal guest conductor 1432 01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:44,570 of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. 1433 01:02:44,570 --> 01:02:47,045 He came on alongside Robert Spano. 1434 01:02:47,045 --> 01:02:49,310 Now, mind you, 2007, 1435 01:02:49,310 --> 01:02:53,435 we have firmly established our reputation as an upstart. 1436 01:02:53,435 --> 01:02:57,950 And many more principal musicians and musicians from 1437 01:02:57,950 --> 01:02:59,510 the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra were teaching at 1438 01:02:59,510 --> 01:03:02,495 Kennesaw State than any other institution in Georgia. 1439 01:03:02,495 --> 01:03:04,460 And there's a vibe that's 1440 01:03:04,460 --> 01:03:06,620 starting to happen, and it's cooking. 1441 01:03:06,620 --> 01:03:08,570 And now this concert hall comes on. 1442 01:03:08,570 --> 01:03:10,655 And the next obvious step 1443 01:03:10,655 --> 01:03:12,170 was to have the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra 1444 01:03:12,170 --> 01:03:16,355 perform at KSU that was always by design. 1445 01:03:16,355 --> 01:03:19,800 That was always in the vision that we had. 1446 01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,240 So Donald Runnicles has 1447 01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:24,650 conducted the Berlin Philharmonic. 1448 01:03:24,650 --> 01:03:27,245 He's conducted the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra. 1449 01:03:27,245 --> 01:03:28,625 He was the music director at the time 1450 01:03:28,625 --> 01:03:30,710 of the San Francisco Opera. 1451 01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:33,800 A career on the highest levels. 1452 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:34,880 He has performed in 1453 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,790 the finest concert halls in the world. 1454 01:03:37,790 --> 01:03:42,425 And he came in and did a solo recital as a pianist with, 1455 01:03:42,425 --> 01:03:46,085 forgive me, I can't remember who the soprano was. 1456 01:03:46,085 --> 01:03:50,285 But he knew piano the Joe Mia hand picked. 1457 01:03:50,285 --> 01:03:54,890 And then playing and then we went 1458 01:03:54,890 --> 01:03:59,495 out and said Mr. Runnicles, what do you think? 1459 01:03:59,495 --> 01:04:03,270 And he said, this is a fantastic concert hall. 1460 01:04:05,140 --> 01:04:12,290 And so, Bobby Asher and I were at a watering hole. 1461 01:04:12,290 --> 01:04:16,250 Let's just say with Donald Runnicles thereafter, 1462 01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:17,480 and he was literally getting on 1463 01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,040 the plane the next morning to fly and 1464 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:20,720 rehearse with the Berlin Philharmonic 1465 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,700 in the Philharmonie in Berlin. 1466 01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:25,790 And we asked him, would you jot something down for us? 1467 01:04:25,790 --> 01:04:28,310 I'll try and find that document. 1468 01:04:28,310 --> 01:04:30,320 But he jotted down 1469 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:34,805 a Georgia jewel and just turned around and said, 1470 01:04:34,805 --> 01:04:37,550 absolutely and wrote it and signed it to us on a napkin, 1471 01:04:37,550 --> 01:04:40,130 and that should be part of 1472 01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:43,460 KSU's legacy, that simple document. 1473 01:04:43,460 --> 01:04:45,500 That's when I knew something 1474 01:04:45,500 --> 01:04:48,590 magical had happened for $6 million, 1475 01:04:48,590 --> 01:04:53,690 Kenesaw built a hall that a man who was about to 1476 01:04:53,690 --> 01:04:55,520 rehearse the Berlin Philharmonic in 1477 01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,340 the world's finest concert hall the Philharmonie he said, 1478 01:04:58,340 --> 01:05:00,985 yeah, you've got a jewel here. Not bad. 1479 01:05:00,985 --> 01:05:03,560 >> Fine moment. Well, just when we 1480 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,770 thought things couldn't get better then at the opening, 1481 01:05:06,770 --> 01:05:09,800 that is my understanding is when the announcement came. 1482 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:15,050 >> [OVERLAPPING] Correct. No. We didn't. 1483 01:05:15,050 --> 01:05:18,030 And so I remember, 1484 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,090 so President Siegel had 1485 01:05:23,090 --> 01:05:27,985 retired and President Pap was on board, and forgive me. 1486 01:05:27,985 --> 01:05:29,830 If it wasn't his first year, 1487 01:05:29,830 --> 01:05:31,975 it was probably his first or second year. 1488 01:05:31,975 --> 01:05:35,840 He was new to the campus. 1489 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:40,825 And so Bobby had done this, 1490 01:05:40,825 --> 01:05:43,820 and that announcement was made on 1491 01:05:43,820 --> 01:05:48,020 the stage that we were becoming an all Steinway School, 1492 01:05:48,020 --> 01:05:50,330 which meant not only the pianos in Bailey, 1493 01:05:50,330 --> 01:05:52,490 but every piano in Wilson. 1494 01:05:52,490 --> 01:05:55,685 In fact, every piano in any room 1495 01:05:55,685 --> 01:05:56,780 in the Department of 1496 01:05:56,780 --> 01:05:59,940 music would be a brand new instrument. 1497 01:06:01,780 --> 01:06:04,490 And so she had made that gift. 1498 01:06:04,490 --> 01:06:07,505 And I remember one of the people was on stage 1499 01:06:07,505 --> 01:06:12,050 was the Steinway representative for Atlanta at the time, 1500 01:06:12,050 --> 01:06:13,520 and forgive me, I can't recall his name, 1501 01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:14,960 but he was at the stage before. 1502 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:14,961 [LAUGHTER] 1503 01:06:14,961 --> 01:06:18,095 And he broke down in tears. 1504 01:06:18,095 --> 01:06:21,050 And the whole audience was elated. 1505 01:06:21,050 --> 01:06:23,945 And Bobby said, I remember this vividly. 1506 01:06:23,945 --> 01:06:27,485 He was effusive in his praise for 1507 01:06:27,485 --> 01:06:29,045 Bobby Bailey and what she meant and how 1508 01:06:29,045 --> 01:06:30,830 generous and insightful she was, 1509 01:06:30,830 --> 01:06:34,010 and he was overcome with emotion. 1510 01:06:34,010 --> 01:06:36,605 And Bobby walks up in that calm, 1511 01:06:36,605 --> 01:06:38,285 yeah, way that she had, 1512 01:06:38,285 --> 01:06:39,860 let's keep things in perspective. 1513 01:06:39,860 --> 01:06:42,065 And she said, well, thank you very much. 1514 01:06:42,065 --> 01:06:44,210 We had just met earlier today. 1515 01:06:44,210 --> 01:06:44,840 [LAUGHTER] 1516 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:46,070 There was this line 1517 01:06:46,070 --> 01:06:49,250 everybody bust out laughing because it was 1518 01:06:49,250 --> 01:06:51,590 a perfect encapsulation of 1519 01:06:51,590 --> 01:06:53,360 real genuine emotion that we all 1520 01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,895 felt for this gift that we had been given. 1521 01:06:55,895 --> 01:06:58,700 And then her pragmatic. 1522 01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:00,110 Yeah, of course, we need to do this. 1523 01:07:00,110 --> 01:07:03,005 You invest in good people and you give them good things. 1524 01:07:03,005 --> 01:07:05,480 That's who Bobby Bailey was. 1525 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,095 And it was a great laugh line for the evening. 1526 01:07:09,095 --> 01:07:11,105 But that was a really fun night. 1527 01:07:11,105 --> 01:07:16,310 >> So as chair, then, was it ever in the plan? 1528 01:07:16,310 --> 01:07:17,450 Was it ever the vision to be in 1529 01:07:17,450 --> 01:07:19,220 Elstein what would have been involved? 1530 01:07:19,220 --> 01:07:21,860 Could you have done it without that generous gift? 1531 01:07:21,860 --> 01:07:22,670 >> Absolutely not. 1532 01:07:22,670 --> 01:07:26,675 So Joe will know the exact numbers. 1533 01:07:26,675 --> 01:07:29,960 I remember it was somewhere around 45 instruments. 1534 01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,180 I hope I'm remembering that correctly in 1535 01:07:32,180 --> 01:07:34,775 the aggregate that we're going to be coming on. 1536 01:07:34,775 --> 01:07:41,495 And that's seven figures easily to acquire all of that. 1537 01:07:41,495 --> 01:07:44,225 And state budgets being what they are, 1538 01:07:44,225 --> 01:07:45,620 it is never the case that 1539 01:07:45,620 --> 01:07:47,930 an institution gets seven digits just 1540 01:07:47,930 --> 01:07:49,280 for a chunk of equipment for 1541 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,950 one academic unit. Doesn't happen. 1542 01:07:51,950 --> 01:07:56,030 So when somebody bestows a gift 1543 01:07:56,030 --> 01:07:57,170 on that and you're able to 1544 01:07:57,170 --> 01:07:59,780 take we had some good instruments, 1545 01:07:59,780 --> 01:08:01,325 but we had a lot of dross, 1546 01:08:01,325 --> 01:08:04,235 bad instruments that had been sitting in 1547 01:08:04,235 --> 01:08:06,215 practice rooms with open windows 1548 01:08:06,215 --> 01:08:08,120 in the original music building, 1549 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,135 getting guitar beat out of them for decades. 1550 01:08:11,135 --> 01:08:18,245 And we could just put those in the piano haven, 1551 01:08:18,245 --> 01:08:21,725 retirement home, and put all of these new instruments in. 1552 01:08:21,725 --> 01:08:24,870 Without her gift, that wouldn't have happened. 1553 01:08:26,170 --> 01:08:30,050 If the concert hall hadn't opened, 1554 01:08:30,050 --> 01:08:34,325 that gift might not have come. 1555 01:08:34,325 --> 01:08:36,380 There's something about investing in 1556 01:08:36,380 --> 01:08:39,875 something when all of the pieces are coming together. 1557 01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:40,445 >> The synergy. 1558 01:08:40,445 --> 01:08:44,180 >> There's a synergy. And it 1559 01:08:44,180 --> 01:08:45,590 would have been good money after 1560 01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:47,810 bad for her to provide those pianos in 1561 01:08:47,810 --> 01:08:49,160 the existing Wilson building with 1562 01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:51,635 the existing HVAC and all that stuff. 1563 01:08:51,635 --> 01:08:52,970 Because it would have been 1564 01:08:52,970 --> 01:08:53,930 a good instrument that would have 1565 01:08:53,930 --> 01:08:56,060 gotten with a much shorter lifespan. 1566 01:08:56,060 --> 01:08:58,145 But now that we had taken care of the HVAC 1567 01:08:58,145 --> 01:09:00,485 in Bailey and in the Wilson edition, 1568 01:09:00,485 --> 01:09:02,390 and there was a sense that these instruments could 1569 01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:05,165 actually be properly maintained, 1570 01:09:05,165 --> 01:09:07,100 it was a gift that followed 1571 01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:08,915 the state's original investment, 1572 01:09:08,915 --> 01:09:12,230 we actually believe that facilities and people matter, 1573 01:09:12,230 --> 01:09:14,655 and then things started to accrue. 1574 01:09:14,655 --> 01:09:17,230 >> So, we have a successful opening. 1575 01:09:17,230 --> 01:09:18,670 We were in Steinway school, 1576 01:09:18,670 --> 01:09:19,930 but we still now have 1577 01:09:19,930 --> 01:09:22,510 the Wilson Building addition to talk about. 1578 01:09:22,510 --> 01:09:23,890 My goodness. I can't even imagine 1579 01:09:23,890 --> 01:09:25,285 what your days must have been like. 1580 01:09:25,285 --> 01:09:25,810 >> They were fun. 1581 01:09:25,810 --> 01:09:28,280 [LAUGHTER] 1582 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,290 Again, I was younger then. 1583 01:09:30,290 --> 01:09:33,890 And Mike Alexander was on the team and 1584 01:09:33,890 --> 01:09:38,195 he is a visionary in his own right. 1585 01:09:38,195 --> 01:09:41,375 So I had sounding boards and we knew. 1586 01:09:41,375 --> 01:09:45,935 And that was a kitchen project, which was, 1587 01:09:45,935 --> 01:09:51,575 we need practice rooms and we need teaching studios. 1588 01:09:51,575 --> 01:09:53,660 And that's principally what the music 1589 01:09:53,660 --> 01:09:56,150 department at the time needed out of that space. 1590 01:09:56,150 --> 01:09:58,690 And that's fairly straightforward, 1591 01:09:58,690 --> 01:10:00,070 which is, who's going to 1592 01:10:00,070 --> 01:10:01,555 be taking the lesson in this space? 1593 01:10:01,555 --> 01:10:02,635 Is it a brass player? 1594 01:10:02,635 --> 01:10:04,060 Yes. Then we need a room of 1595 01:10:04,060 --> 01:10:05,890 this size. Is it a woodwind player? 1596 01:10:05,890 --> 01:10:07,660 Yes. We need a room of this size. 1597 01:10:07,660 --> 01:10:08,845 Is it a percussionist? 1598 01:10:08,845 --> 01:10:11,050 Yes. Do you have a four octo Marimba? 1599 01:10:11,050 --> 01:10:13,090 Yes. We need double doors. 1600 01:10:13,090 --> 01:10:15,910 So we started to build all of that stuff out 1601 01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:21,065 in relation to the Bailey center. 1602 01:10:21,065 --> 01:10:23,105 It was much more pragmatic. 1603 01:10:23,105 --> 01:10:24,860 It went very quickly, 1604 01:10:24,860 --> 01:10:26,660 and for instance, I remember, 1605 01:10:26,660 --> 01:10:27,890 one of the decisions was, 1606 01:10:27,890 --> 01:10:32,495 do we use the instrument practice rooms 1607 01:10:32,495 --> 01:10:34,490 or Wenger modules that are in 1608 01:10:34,490 --> 01:10:37,925 the basement in the first floor of the Wilson addition? 1609 01:10:37,925 --> 01:10:40,580 Practice rooms are very expensive to build. 1610 01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:42,335 They're actually per square foot, 1611 01:10:42,335 --> 01:10:44,360 the most expensive thing to build 1612 01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,790 because you're sound isolating 1613 01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:48,440 a very small number of square feet. 1614 01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:53,840 So you have all the sound isolation for 50 square feet, 1615 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,955 cost a fortune per square foot. 1616 01:10:55,955 --> 01:10:57,740 So actually, the first floor of 1617 01:10:57,740 --> 01:11:00,230 the Wilson addition is probably 1618 01:11:00,230 --> 01:11:01,640 much more expensive per 1619 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,835 square foot than the same amount of space in Bailey. 1620 01:11:04,835 --> 01:11:06,065 It's counterintuitive. 1621 01:11:06,065 --> 01:11:07,490 But we went with 1622 01:11:07,490 --> 01:11:09,035 those Wenger modules because 1623 01:11:09,035 --> 01:11:10,490 we knew that they would work. 1624 01:11:10,490 --> 01:11:13,730 You could change the adaptive acoustics 1625 01:11:13,730 --> 01:11:15,320 so the kids can actually hit 1626 01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,810 a lever and get some resonance in the room if they want 1627 01:11:17,810 --> 01:11:20,480 it. This is back in the day. 1628 01:11:20,480 --> 01:11:22,445 You could patch in your CD player 1629 01:11:22,445 --> 01:11:24,350 and play along with the recording. 1630 01:11:24,350 --> 01:11:25,910 Now they can do that with whatever 1631 01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:27,530 digital device that they have. 1632 01:11:27,530 --> 01:11:30,140 But that was one piece that we did. 1633 01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:32,690 That project was really fast, 1634 01:11:32,690 --> 01:11:35,330 much more pragmatically oriented, 1635 01:11:35,330 --> 01:11:37,790 and we just wanted to make certain that there were 1636 01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:41,720 some awareness of the relationship 1637 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,475 between the two spaces. 1638 01:11:43,475 --> 01:11:45,950 So the percussion studio 1639 01:11:45,950 --> 01:11:47,360 is on the second floor of Wilson, 1640 01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:48,980 and that's so that you can push 1641 01:11:48,980 --> 01:11:51,110 the equipment straight through without 1642 01:11:51,110 --> 01:11:52,865 going up or down on an elevator 1643 01:11:52,865 --> 01:11:55,025 and into the Bailey center backstage. 1644 01:11:55,025 --> 01:11:56,585 And John Laws was the reason why. 1645 01:11:56,585 --> 01:11:59,750 We want to make certain practically 1646 01:11:59,750 --> 01:12:02,195 that the building aged well. 1647 01:12:02,195 --> 01:12:05,150 >> So we're coming to the end of your tenure. 1648 01:12:05,150 --> 01:12:06,570 >> Yes. 1649 01:12:06,970 --> 01:12:11,315 >> So let's reflect back on your time as chair. 1650 01:12:11,315 --> 01:12:15,300 And I think certainly a lot to be proud of. 1651 01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:17,050 Are there some other moments 1652 01:12:17,050 --> 01:12:18,505 that we haven't covered already. 1653 01:12:18,505 --> 01:12:22,585 >> Well, the occasion for 1654 01:12:22,585 --> 01:12:25,150 our meeting today we're 1655 01:12:25,150 --> 01:12:28,395 coming up on the tenth anniversary of the Bailey Center. 1656 01:12:28,395 --> 01:12:32,375 And I say this to my friends, 1657 01:12:32,375 --> 01:12:35,165 and I say this about my friends. 1658 01:12:35,165 --> 01:12:38,750 The most significant accomplishment 1659 01:12:38,750 --> 01:12:42,900 is not the building. It's the people. 1660 01:12:50,020 --> 01:12:53,250 Magical people. 1661 01:12:54,160 --> 01:13:00,050 Students I stay in touch with today, 1662 01:13:00,050 --> 01:13:03,000 who have their own families. 1663 01:13:05,140 --> 01:13:10,160 You have to remember that the students who were there at 1664 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:15,350 the time knew something cool was going to happen, 1665 01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:19,410 and a lot of them never played in Bailey. 1666 01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,400 A lot of those kids probably should have had 1667 01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:26,840 conversations with mom about 1668 01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,180 transferring to this or that of the other place. 1669 01:13:29,180 --> 01:13:34,340 But they felt like something was happening. 1670 01:13:34,340 --> 01:13:38,270 That they got to study with people who were incredible, 1671 01:13:38,270 --> 01:13:41,975 that everybody in the hall of that little building 1672 01:13:41,975 --> 01:13:47,555 in Wilson loved them. 1673 01:13:47,555 --> 01:13:52,565 And so as you can tell, 1674 01:13:52,565 --> 01:13:55,595 I'm more proud of the people 1675 01:13:55,595 --> 01:14:00,030 that we were than the building that exists. 1676 01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:10,670 The facilities are the result of the relationships. 1677 01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:12,290 >> Manifestation. 1678 01:14:12,290 --> 01:14:13,280 But what was already 1679 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,245 there, certainly unique time. 1680 01:14:15,245 --> 01:14:17,330 I think all of our history. 1681 01:14:17,330 --> 01:14:19,680 >> Magical. 1682 01:14:20,350 --> 01:14:24,140 >> So we're coming to the end of your chair, 1683 01:14:24,140 --> 01:14:26,390 and it's time for you to move on, to something else. 1684 01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:28,460 Let's talk a little bit about the 1685 01:14:28,460 --> 01:14:29,660 circumstances for you leaving. 1686 01:14:29,660 --> 01:14:35,510 >> Sure. So this was in 2007, 1687 01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:40,220 2008 position at UMKC that I have at present, 1688 01:14:40,220 --> 01:14:42,545 and I'm about to depart from that position. 1689 01:14:42,545 --> 01:14:46,040 But University of Missouri Kansas City is 1690 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:50,420 a public institution of today about 15,000 students. 1691 01:14:50,420 --> 01:14:53,240 The conservatory is 547 students 1692 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,370 under its undergraduate Doctoral. 1693 01:14:55,370 --> 01:15:00,065 So that position became open, 1694 01:15:00,065 --> 01:15:03,035 and they invited me to talk with them about it. 1695 01:15:03,035 --> 01:15:05,450 It became clear that it was a good fit, 1696 01:15:05,450 --> 01:15:11,000 and I had been here for a number of years, 1697 01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,815 and it just was the right thing to do, 1698 01:15:15,815 --> 01:15:19,655 and it was quite poignant for a number of reasons. 1699 01:15:19,655 --> 01:15:21,290 As you can tell, I love this place. 1700 01:15:21,290 --> 01:15:22,640 So leaving here was hard. 1701 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,290 It is literally home. 1702 01:15:24,290 --> 01:15:27,120 I grew up here as a kid. 1703 01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:33,950 And we had this plucky start up pride. 1704 01:15:33,950 --> 01:15:38,940 We were ready to take it to the rest of the world, 1705 01:15:40,570 --> 01:15:42,995 but it was the right thing to do. 1706 01:15:42,995 --> 01:15:47,060 And so when I accepted that position, 1707 01:15:47,060 --> 01:15:48,545 I went from 1708 01:15:48,545 --> 01:15:52,310 a relatively young institution that was growing 1709 01:15:52,310 --> 01:15:54,140 to be enormous to 1710 01:15:54,140 --> 01:15:57,755 a relatively older institution that was smaller. 1711 01:15:57,755 --> 01:16:00,110 So I think we were what? 1712 01:16:00,110 --> 01:16:02,720 Maybe 22, 24,000 1713 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,345 students when I departed. I think that's right. 1714 01:16:05,345 --> 01:16:08,795 And UMKC is smaller in the aggregate, 1715 01:16:08,795 --> 01:16:11,300 about 16,000 students today. 1716 01:16:11,300 --> 01:16:14,285 But the music program is much larger. 1717 01:16:14,285 --> 01:16:16,490 And it was founded in 1906, 1718 01:16:16,490 --> 01:16:18,920 so it's one of the oldest music programs 1719 01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,110 in the nation, quite distinguished program. 1720 01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:22,535 So that was the draw. 1721 01:16:22,535 --> 01:16:24,320 It was an urban serving institution. 1722 01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,930 So it perhaps has an orientation 1723 01:16:26,930 --> 01:16:31,820 to Kansas City that might be more like 1724 01:16:31,820 --> 01:16:34,760 Georgia States orientation to the City of Atlanta, 1725 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,300 but we went there, and I've been there. 1726 01:16:38,300 --> 01:16:40,085 Now this is my ninth year. 1727 01:16:40,085 --> 01:16:41,390 And we are literally, 1728 01:16:41,390 --> 01:16:43,070 as you and I are talking, 1729 01:16:43,070 --> 01:16:44,960 Robin and I are about ready to 1730 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,615 move to the University of the Pacific, 1731 01:16:47,615 --> 01:16:49,865 and I've accepted a position in 1732 01:16:49,865 --> 01:16:51,440 California to be the dean 1733 01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:53,015 of the Conservatory music there, 1734 01:16:53,015 --> 01:16:55,520 which is the first conservatory 1735 01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:56,685 founded in the West Coast. 1736 01:16:56,685 --> 01:16:58,210 >> Fantastic. Do you 1737 01:16:58,210 --> 01:17:01,990 ever have occasion to visit KSU in that time? 1738 01:17:01,990 --> 01:17:04,870 >> I did. So a number of times, 1739 01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:08,480 I would come down to visit friends, 1740 01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,580 faculty who are here who have become friends, 1741 01:17:12,580 --> 01:17:14,305 visit mom and dad. 1742 01:17:14,305 --> 01:17:19,540 And then very generously, David Keeler, 1743 01:17:19,540 --> 01:17:21,730 who's now the director of 1744 01:17:21,730 --> 01:17:25,105 bands at KSU and conducts the wind ensemble, 1745 01:17:25,105 --> 01:17:27,345 doing a bang up job. 1746 01:17:27,345 --> 01:17:29,420 Now as a marching band and all that stuff 1747 01:17:29,420 --> 01:17:31,460 the athletic bands, it's a real thing. 1748 01:17:31,460 --> 01:17:35,360 And so he very graciously invited me to 1749 01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,130 come back after a number 1750 01:17:37,130 --> 01:17:39,140 of years and conduct the wind ensemble. 1751 01:17:39,140 --> 01:17:41,090 So it was my old group, 1752 01:17:41,090 --> 01:17:43,430 but of course, I didn't know any of the kids. 1753 01:17:43,430 --> 01:17:48,560 And here we are rehearsing where we're in Bailey. 1754 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:52,610 And I come back to this ensemble that had been mine, 1755 01:17:52,610 --> 01:17:54,980 but these students don't know me from Boo. 1756 01:17:54,980 --> 01:17:56,870 And they're rehearsing in 1757 01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:59,720 Bailey because that's where 1758 01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,085 the wind ensembles always rehearsed. 1759 01:18:01,085 --> 01:18:03,050 That's how it's always been for them. 1760 01:18:03,050 --> 01:18:07,340 So there's this enormous pride that those students, 1761 01:18:07,340 --> 01:18:09,590 I don't want to say, take it for granted, 1762 01:18:09,590 --> 01:18:13,025 but that's what they expect of college and they should. 1763 01:18:13,025 --> 01:18:14,900 But I was remembering, 1764 01:18:14,900 --> 01:18:19,250 Olivia Dates and Angie Cook and Cook and 1765 01:18:19,250 --> 01:18:24,500 Phil Orman and Brian Reath and Jennifer Peterson, 1766 01:18:24,500 --> 01:18:26,960 these musicians who rehearsed in 1767 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,350 the old building who never got to know. 1768 01:18:30,350 --> 01:18:35,180 But it's a real joy to 1769 01:18:35,180 --> 01:18:36,680 remember who helped make this 1770 01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:40,250 possible and to see what the school is today. 1771 01:18:40,250 --> 01:18:41,900 It's just a fantastic time. 1772 01:18:41,900 --> 01:18:44,150 But yes, I did get to conduct the wind ensemble here. 1773 01:18:44,150 --> 01:18:46,910 What was that maybe two years or so ago. 1774 01:18:46,910 --> 01:18:49,250 >> Well, if there's anything we haven't covered today, 1775 01:18:49,250 --> 01:18:50,120 we covered a lot. 1776 01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:55,595 >> Well, I think we've covered 1777 01:18:55,595 --> 01:18:57,695 a lot of the stories that help 1778 01:18:57,695 --> 01:19:01,040 make Bailey possible and what it is. 1779 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,820 And I think there are still some of the constraints, 1780 01:19:04,820 --> 01:19:07,130 I would suggest today that 1781 01:19:07,130 --> 01:19:10,620 we were meant to address when we built it. 1782 01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:14,030 The School of Music today is out of 1783 01:19:14,030 --> 01:19:17,030 practice rooms and out of teaching studios. 1784 01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:19,130 I have a little bit of guilt about that, 1785 01:19:19,130 --> 01:19:20,990 that we didn't think big enough, 1786 01:19:20,990 --> 01:19:23,540 but you have to recall, 1787 01:19:23,540 --> 01:19:26,765 nobody then imagined the merger 1788 01:19:26,765 --> 01:19:29,540 happen that would make KSU so large. 1789 01:19:29,540 --> 01:19:32,420 Everybody who grows up in Atlanta understands that 1790 01:19:32,420 --> 01:19:35,880 this city is just always growing. 1791 01:19:35,950 --> 01:19:40,670 But I would suggest that the School of Music 1792 01:19:40,670 --> 01:19:46,055 today at KSU is nationally known. 1793 01:19:46,055 --> 01:19:50,885 And I had a role to play in it. 1794 01:19:50,885 --> 01:19:54,290 But what's happening in the school 1795 01:19:54,290 --> 01:19:59,870 today is equal to the stories 10 years ago. 1796 01:19:59,870 --> 01:20:04,670 And certainly the long arc of this is Joe Miss's legacy. 1797 01:20:04,670 --> 01:20:07,430 So I think it's really important to 1798 01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:10,250 understand you have to have 1799 01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:16,895 crazy people who can think four and five decades out. 1800 01:20:16,895 --> 01:20:18,830 And then you have to have people who 1801 01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:20,735 can seize the opportunity 1802 01:20:20,735 --> 01:20:24,875 today and attach it to that long arc. 1803 01:20:24,875 --> 01:20:27,590 But this region, of course, 1804 01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:30,200 is no longer a city on the ascent, 1805 01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,790 Atlanta is an international city. 1806 01:20:32,890 --> 01:20:35,915 I would suggest that the School of Music 1807 01:20:35,915 --> 01:20:40,940 is fully mature and is 1808 01:20:40,940 --> 01:20:44,270 seen as a national leader and that 1809 01:20:44,270 --> 01:20:48,640 when faculty come here, 1810 01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:49,870 they know they're coming to 1811 01:20:49,870 --> 01:20:53,605 an established and importantly rising institution. 1812 01:20:53,605 --> 01:20:57,165 That it's not an institution that you get away from. 1813 01:20:57,165 --> 01:21:01,010 It's an institution that you come to and that you 1814 01:21:01,010 --> 01:21:02,660 can do things here that will be 1815 01:21:02,660 --> 01:21:05,225 the envy of other schools, 1816 01:21:05,225 --> 01:21:07,670 some of whom are flagships, 1817 01:21:07,670 --> 01:21:12,505 because of our location in a terrific suburban area, 1818 01:21:12,505 --> 01:21:14,965 but also in a major metropolitan area. 1819 01:21:14,965 --> 01:21:17,560 And there's some cocktails that are possible 1820 01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:21,415 because of KSU's location that are only possible here. 1821 01:21:21,415 --> 01:21:26,960 And I'm proud to have worked here, 1822 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,945 and I'm prouder yet of what it's becoming. 1823 01:21:29,945 --> 01:21:31,340 >> Well, Peter, thank you so much. 1824 01:21:31,340 --> 01:21:32,285 This has been wonderful. 1825 01:21:32,285 --> 01:21:32,900 >> Absolutely. 1826 01:21:32,900 --> 01:21:34,500 Thanks for the time.