1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,100 >> So I'll get started. 2 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:03,960 My name is Adina Langer, 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,900 and today is February 28, 2020. 4 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:09,820 I'm here at the Museum of History 5 00:00:09,820 --> 00:00:11,380 and Holocaust Education at 6 00:00:11,380 --> 00:00:13,580 Kennesaw State University with 7 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:15,920 Marcell Kohler to record 8 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,560 a legacy series Oral History interview. 9 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,990 Could you please start by stating your full name? 10 00:00:21,990 --> 00:00:24,100 >> Marcell Kohler. 11 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:26,355 >> And do you agree to this interview? 12 00:00:26,355 --> 00:00:27,120 >> Absolutely. 13 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,980 >> Fabulous. Could you please 14 00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:31,415 tell me when and where you were born? 15 00:00:31,415 --> 00:00:36,220 >> I was born in Utrecht Netherlands in 1950. 16 00:00:36,220 --> 00:00:39,380 In fact, October the 11th, 1950. 17 00:00:39,380 --> 00:00:41,980 >> And before we talk about your childhood, 18 00:00:41,980 --> 00:00:44,260 we're going to go back a little bit and talk about 19 00:00:44,260 --> 00:00:47,420 your family's experiences during World War 2. 20 00:00:47,420 --> 00:00:50,475 Could you please tell me your parents' names? 21 00:00:50,475 --> 00:00:53,680 >> My dad's name is Anton Kohler, 22 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,740 and my mother's name was Adriana Henrika. 23 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:00,630 >> And your father is he still? 24 00:01:00,630 --> 00:01:03,075 >> No, he passed. 25 00:01:03,075 --> 00:01:05,550 >> And do you have siblings? 26 00:01:05,550 --> 00:01:07,900 >> I have an older brother. 27 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:09,780 I have a brother who's about two years older, 28 00:01:09,780 --> 00:01:12,720 and then I have an older sister who 29 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,900 is probably I can't remember exactly, 30 00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:19,530 but I think, like eight or 10 years old. 31 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,700 I believe she was 14 years old when the war happened. 32 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:30,475 So she remembers probably more than than any of us. 33 00:01:30,475 --> 00:01:33,075 >> And what are their names, you siblings? 34 00:01:33,075 --> 00:01:36,455 >> My brother's name is Yoan Hankrick. 35 00:01:36,455 --> 00:01:38,180 Everybody calls him Hank, 36 00:01:38,180 --> 00:01:41,140 and my sister's name is Antoinette, 37 00:01:41,140 --> 00:01:44,045 and we all call her Nettie. 38 00:01:44,045 --> 00:01:49,215 >> And what kind of work did your parents do? 39 00:01:49,215 --> 00:01:52,990 >> My mother was pretty much a stay at home mom. 40 00:01:52,990 --> 00:01:56,770 My dad had somewhat of his own business. 41 00:01:56,770 --> 00:01:59,950 He was an upholster by trade, 42 00:01:59,950 --> 00:02:04,250 but he also had very good carpentry skills. 43 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:09,685 So his main source of income was redoing furniture. 44 00:02:09,685 --> 00:02:14,640 Also he did in theaters. 45 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:17,410 He would sew and put 46 00:02:17,410 --> 00:02:20,890 together curtains and different things like that. 47 00:02:20,890 --> 00:02:24,970 And one bizarre story that 48 00:02:24,970 --> 00:02:30,020 my mother told me that at certain times of the year, 49 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:32,580 I believe it was like, especially 50 00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:34,360 in the fall of the year, 51 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,010 and this is going to sound really bazar, 52 00:02:38,010 --> 00:02:41,030 but people would inadvertently accidentally fall into 53 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:43,370 the canals and they couldn't get him 54 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:46,190 out right away or couldn't find them or what have you. 55 00:02:46,190 --> 00:02:51,950 So my dad as ways of getting extra work would help. 56 00:02:51,950 --> 00:02:54,970 I can't remember if it was a government agency 57 00:02:54,970 --> 00:02:59,610 or a group of people that would retrieve these bodies, 58 00:02:59,610 --> 00:03:02,050 and my dad would help make coffins 59 00:03:02,050 --> 00:03:05,130 or caskets and for them. 60 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:09,270 So he did odd jobs, 61 00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:11,330 but his primary source of income was 62 00:03:11,330 --> 00:03:14,990 upholstery and making drapes and that type of thing. 63 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:17,640 >> And what brought them to Utrecht? 64 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:19,595 Were they always living there or? 65 00:03:19,595 --> 00:03:21,335 >> I believe so. 66 00:03:21,335 --> 00:03:23,200 I think they were basically born and 67 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,680 raised there to the best of my knowledge. 68 00:03:29,930 --> 00:03:32,340 I've never heard them talk about 69 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:34,695 any other place other than Utrecht. 70 00:03:34,695 --> 00:03:37,440 >> What was the neighborhood like? 71 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,220 >> To me, the best way I could explain it 72 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:46,880 is like the old version of condos. 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,300 You had two, three story buildings fairly narrow, 74 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:54,295 townhouses or condos like, 75 00:03:54,295 --> 00:03:55,600 and there was no room in 76 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,260 between the buildings they are all attached. 77 00:03:58,260 --> 00:04:01,100 And what little I remember of our house, 78 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:02,780 we had three levels 79 00:04:02,780 --> 00:04:07,200 and we had on the back of the house was 80 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,270 a small porch area 81 00:04:10,270 --> 00:04:14,050 with a little I believe it was a metal railing around it. 82 00:04:14,050 --> 00:04:17,470 Just probably a little bit bigger than 83 00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:21,630 a window or do double hung window type setup. 84 00:04:21,630 --> 00:04:24,570 >> And did most of the people who lived in 85 00:04:24,570 --> 00:04:28,170 the neighborhood work in trades like your father, 86 00:04:28,170 --> 00:04:31,030 or was there a lot of variety in what people did? 87 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:32,930 >> I'm not really sure. 88 00:04:32,930 --> 00:04:35,620 I know that my mother 89 00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:38,200 used to tell me stories about back then, 90 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,700 nobody went to the grocery store hardly. 91 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,800 They went to the butcher shop and got meat. 92 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,140 But in the United States, 93 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:49,820 they had people with pushcarts would sell 94 00:04:49,820 --> 00:04:52,680 vegetables and different things and they 95 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,300 would get a lot of their groceries 96 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:58,220 and stuff from the street vendors 97 00:04:58,220 --> 00:05:00,350 that would come to the house. 98 00:05:00,350 --> 00:05:02,660 Everybody had milk delivered to 99 00:05:02,660 --> 00:05:04,640 the house back then, that type of thing. 100 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,580 But I remember my mom would 101 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:12,765 tell me about going to the butcher shop to get different. 102 00:05:12,765 --> 00:05:16,215 They liked rabbit and back 103 00:05:16,215 --> 00:05:20,040 then horse meat was sold quite readily. 104 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,520 And everybody then back then ate horse meat and 105 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,180 a lot of people over here 106 00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:32,900 pretty amazed at that and discussed with it. 107 00:05:33,390 --> 00:05:40,360 >> Meat is meat. So did your parents or 108 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,980 your siblings tell you anything about how 109 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:45,060 the great depression may or may not 110 00:05:45,060 --> 00:05:47,970 have affected your family or your neighborhood? 111 00:05:47,970 --> 00:05:55,210 >> No. My sister really never said anything. 112 00:05:55,210 --> 00:05:58,030 And of course, my brother is in the same boat that I am. 113 00:05:58,030 --> 00:05:59,645 He was so young, 114 00:05:59,645 --> 00:06:02,910 it probably it didn't really sink in. 115 00:06:02,910 --> 00:06:05,190 But I remember a lot of times 116 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:07,630 my mother telling me about how food was 117 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:10,110 difficult to get hold of and 118 00:06:10,110 --> 00:06:14,295 that they basically traded for food. 119 00:06:14,295 --> 00:06:15,855 Nobody had any money. 120 00:06:15,855 --> 00:06:19,330 So they would give your trade 121 00:06:19,330 --> 00:06:24,130 your fine China or if you had decent quality silverware, 122 00:06:24,130 --> 00:06:26,110 you would trade that for food. 123 00:06:26,110 --> 00:06:30,680 I remember my dad telling me that the farmers did 124 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,600 well during the war because they 125 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,480 had the food and the crops and that type of thing, 126 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,905 and they bartered for it. 127 00:06:37,905 --> 00:06:41,500 >> And in the years 128 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,740 leading up to the Nazi invasion of Holland, 129 00:06:44,740 --> 00:06:47,100 was your family thinking about 130 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:50,170 the threat of war or aware of the threat of war? 131 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:56,090 >> I can't really remember any conversations like that. 132 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:05,050 I don't remember any major issues 133 00:07:05,050 --> 00:07:10,930 or concerns or problems for that matter before the war. 134 00:07:12,050 --> 00:07:17,290 Everybody had a bicycle, nobody had a car. 135 00:07:17,290 --> 00:07:19,710 My dad had two bicycles, 136 00:07:19,710 --> 00:07:21,870 one for Sundays and one 137 00:07:21,870 --> 00:07:24,905 for during the week, running errands. 138 00:07:24,905 --> 00:07:27,330 >> And how did they get 139 00:07:27,330 --> 00:07:29,490 information about what was going on in the world? 140 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:33,410 Were there newspapers, radio, news reels? 141 00:07:33,410 --> 00:07:38,210 >. I remember my mother told me they had a radio. 142 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:41,430 And obviously, yeah, they had newspapers back then. 143 00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:43,690 But one of the things that my dad 144 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:46,450 did when the invasion happened, 145 00:07:46,450 --> 00:07:49,030 he took our radio and hit it. 146 00:07:49,030 --> 00:07:53,615 And kept it away trying to keep it away from the Germans. 147 00:07:53,615 --> 00:07:58,150 >> And was religion important to your family? 148 00:07:58,150 --> 00:08:01,160 >> How much time you got. 149 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:06,320 One of the reasons I believe that we 150 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,960 relocated to the United States because basically 151 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,120 of what I would consider 152 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,460 a family feud between 153 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:17,300 my dad and my mother's side of the family. 154 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:21,220 My mother's side of the family was extremely religious. 155 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:24,100 They were Catholic, and my dad was a non 156 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:27,625 Catholic and was not as religious. 157 00:08:27,625 --> 00:08:31,880 So during their courtship, 158 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,560 there was a lot of pressure put on 159 00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:37,200 my dad to become Catholic. 160 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,335 And he just finally said, 161 00:08:39,335 --> 00:08:41,980 no, it's not for me. 162 00:08:41,980 --> 00:08:48,620 So my mother's parents forbid them to get married. 163 00:08:48,620 --> 00:08:54,420 And back in the 40s back then in Holland, 164 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:57,680 you had to have parents permission 165 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:00,120 to marry up until age 30. 166 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,740 So my dad was 30 at the time and my mother 167 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:07,260 was 28 and her parents wouldn't wouldn't give permission. 168 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:10,220 So my dad took him to court. 169 00:09:10,220 --> 00:09:14,120 And one and got 170 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,220 the court's approval to get married. They got married. 171 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:21,460 And basically, from that point on my mother and 172 00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:23,080 my dad and us got 173 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,260 excommunicated from my mother's side of the family. 174 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:31,480 So there was a lot of I don't want to say hatred, 175 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,960 but there was a lot of 176 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,380 friction between my dad 177 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:39,095 and my mother's side of the family. 178 00:09:39,095 --> 00:09:43,530 And I think the other side of that coin is, 179 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,260 my dad's brother was already living in Michigan, 180 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:52,980 and my dad thought it would be a good opportunity 181 00:09:52,980 --> 00:09:59,160 to advance because in Holland, 182 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,470 nobody had a car, nobody owned their own home, 183 00:10:03,470 --> 00:10:09,770 probably back then, very few people even had TVs. 184 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:13,410 Middle class people had radios, 185 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:15,770 and it was really 186 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:18,850 a way to improve 187 00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:21,530 our standard of living by coming to the United States. 188 00:10:21,530 --> 00:10:24,470 >> And we'll get into a little bit more of 189 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:26,730 that when we get to 190 00:10:26,730 --> 00:10:30,290 the decision making to leave right after the war. 191 00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:33,090 Thinking back to the time before the war. 192 00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:35,750 Do you know if there were Jewish families 193 00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:39,005 living in the same neighborhood as your family? 194 00:10:39,005 --> 00:10:41,480 >> I couldn't tell you that. 195 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,040 I know that my mother and 196 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,740 dad did hide Jews during the war. 197 00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:48,550 Now, whether they were neighbors 198 00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:53,200 or friends or friends, I'm not sure. 199 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:55,720 >> What did your parents and 200 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,180 your sister tell you about May 10, 201 00:10:58,180 --> 00:11:01,920 1940 when Hitler invaded Holland? 202 00:11:05,510 --> 00:11:08,895 >> I don't remember anything. 203 00:11:08,895 --> 00:11:11,250 >> Yeah, that's fine. Sometimes the date is really 204 00:11:11,250 --> 00:11:13,980 intense and people remember on that day this happened, 205 00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:16,630 but sometimes it's more gradual. 206 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:21,900 How did things begin to change for 207 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:25,840 them once the occupation started? 208 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:30,135 >> As best as I can recall, 209 00:11:30,135 --> 00:11:34,440 again, the stories that my mother and dad told that, 210 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,225 they really had to be walking on eggshell, so to speak, 211 00:11:39,225 --> 00:11:40,800 if they were out in public, 212 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:46,950 because there was a large German army presence. 213 00:11:48,670 --> 00:11:51,770 Not to be exaggerating, 214 00:11:51,770 --> 00:11:56,055 but if you sneezed and they didn't like it, 215 00:11:56,055 --> 00:11:58,990 you got taken away. 216 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,290 They were occupied where they were at. 217 00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:07,680 There was occupation of the city, 218 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:11,310 and you just really had to watch your Ps and Qs. 219 00:12:11,310 --> 00:12:16,560 You had to, basically, be seen, 220 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:20,640 not heard and be very respectful of them because 221 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,380 they were SS, they were Nazis. 222 00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:26,655 They didn't care. 223 00:12:26,655 --> 00:12:29,340 They'd just soon haul you off and lock you up 224 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:33,225 and ship you off than anything else. 225 00:12:33,225 --> 00:12:35,760 >> Did they tell you any stories 226 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,400 of witnessing direct violence, 227 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,935 whether it was round-ups of people or 228 00:12:40,935 --> 00:12:45,040 people being killed in their presence? 229 00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:48,300 >> The only thing along 230 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:51,570 those lines that I can remember is 231 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:54,330 either my mom or dad told me that we had 232 00:12:54,330 --> 00:12:57,885 a relative that got taken to a concentration camp, 233 00:12:57,885 --> 00:13:01,725 and I can't remember if it was a cousin 234 00:13:01,725 --> 00:13:07,125 or exactly what relation that individual was, 235 00:13:07,125 --> 00:13:11,220 but fortunately, he did make it through 236 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:12,600 the war and got out of 237 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,335 the concentration camp somewhat unscathed. 238 00:13:16,335 --> 00:13:18,360 I'm not 100% sure, 239 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,185 I think somehow he got shot or hurt. 240 00:13:22,185 --> 00:13:24,780 But he spent quite a bit of 241 00:13:24,780 --> 00:13:27,870 time in the concentration camp, 242 00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:31,390 and he was one of the lucky ones that made it out. 243 00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:33,810 >> And you mentioned how 244 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:36,945 your father hid your family radio. 245 00:13:36,945 --> 00:13:41,685 How did they get information once the war began? 246 00:13:41,685 --> 00:13:43,890 >> I'm not really sure. 247 00:13:43,890 --> 00:13:48,105 I know that, from what I've been told, 248 00:13:48,105 --> 00:13:52,635 he had places in the house where he could 249 00:13:52,635 --> 00:13:56,100 undo the boards and then put 250 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:58,350 valuable stuff underneath the boards 251 00:13:58,350 --> 00:13:59,520 and then put the board back, 252 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,990 and I don't know if they slid a piece of 253 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:02,760 furniture on it or what, 254 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,520 but he had a way of hiding stuff. 255 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:11,040 Now, the Germans weren't there 24/7. 256 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,070 So maybe sometimes at night or something they'd bring 257 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:15,900 that radio out and plug it 258 00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,150 in and get some news or something. 259 00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:19,875 I don't know, I'm speculating. 260 00:14:19,875 --> 00:14:23,475 But I think a lot of it was word of mouth, 261 00:14:23,475 --> 00:14:27,750 and I couldn't really say for sure because I'm 262 00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:32,490 assuming that the Germans took over the newspaper, 263 00:14:32,490 --> 00:14:39,430 and even broadcast most normal means of communication. 264 00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:42,075 >> Some people have talked about 265 00:14:42,075 --> 00:14:43,980 there were flyers dropped 266 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:48,000 from airplanes by the British, things like that. 267 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,440 I don't know if anyone in your family 268 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,460 ever remember seeing that. 269 00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:56,590 >> I don't recall any of that being told to me. 270 00:15:01,730 --> 00:15:03,990 >> And I'll let you take a drink of water. 271 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:06,270 >> We need to stop. [LAUGHTER] 272 00:15:06,270 --> 00:15:08,820 >> Yeah, we're fine. I'll take a drink of water too. 273 00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:22,350 [inaudible]. 274 00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:24,780 So you mentioned that your family 275 00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:27,630 hid Jewish people somewhere in their house. 276 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:30,300 Do you know anything about where that may have been? 277 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,700 Was it an attic or the floor? 278 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,525 >> I've talked to my sister about that. 279 00:15:36,525 --> 00:15:40,290 I never remember anything of that nature, 280 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:43,500 but I've talked to my sister recently and she said 281 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,845 she could remember upstairs on the third level, 282 00:15:46,845 --> 00:15:49,770 there was somewhere up there, 283 00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:53,910 whether it was in the floor or in an attic or somewhere, 284 00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:57,225 where they did hide Jewish people on and off, 285 00:15:57,225 --> 00:16:02,010 not all the time, but periodically. 286 00:16:02,010 --> 00:16:04,425 >> And to do that, 287 00:16:04,425 --> 00:16:07,545 they would have had to have connections to 288 00:16:07,545 --> 00:16:10,905 know who needed hiding and how to get them there. 289 00:16:10,905 --> 00:16:13,500 Would that have been both of your parents 290 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,020 probably together or one or the other? 291 00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:18,120 >> I would say both. 292 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:25,320 They were pretty much a traditional old school couple, 293 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,510 and they didn't have 294 00:16:27,510 --> 00:16:29,790 secrets and what one knew the other knew, 295 00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:32,670 and they never went anywhere without each other. 296 00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:33,840 They're always together type. 297 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,210 So I'm assuming that they both knew. 298 00:16:36,210 --> 00:16:39,630 And I remember my mother telling the stories. 299 00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:43,230 And probably I received more of 300 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:46,710 the stories from my mother because she lived longer, 301 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:48,960 and I had more time to talk to her. 302 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,295 But I think they were both pretty much on the same page. 303 00:16:53,295 --> 00:16:55,380 They were both in the loop. 304 00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:57,630 I never really gave it much thought, 305 00:16:57,630 --> 00:16:59,760 but they would have had to have some kind of 306 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,750 communication network with the underground. 307 00:17:06,140 --> 00:17:08,760 That makes a lot of sense. 308 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,040 >> How did they get food during the war? 309 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,365 Did they have ration cards, or? 310 00:17:13,365 --> 00:17:15,390 >> Yes, they had ration cards, 311 00:17:15,390 --> 00:17:17,700 and like I said, they traded. 312 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:20,610 And another kind of 313 00:17:20,610 --> 00:17:23,370 bizarre story that I love to 314 00:17:23,370 --> 00:17:27,225 tell is my dad used to raise rabbits. 315 00:17:27,225 --> 00:17:30,210 My mother and dad really liked rabbits, 316 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:32,055 as opposed to chickens. 317 00:17:32,055 --> 00:17:36,030 But anyway, that my dad would raise rabbits and 318 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:40,620 then there was a black market for food. 319 00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:42,300 They would, a lot of times, 320 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:44,055 get food on the black market, 321 00:17:44,055 --> 00:17:48,660 and not to get too gross, 322 00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:52,350 but I remember my dad telling me that there was 323 00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:57,015 some unscrupulous type people on the black market 324 00:17:57,015 --> 00:17:58,995 that would try to sell you 325 00:17:58,995 --> 00:18:01,965 a cat and tell you it was a rabbit, 326 00:18:01,965 --> 00:18:06,540 because physically, they're fairly close in size. 327 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:09,420 And he had this little trick that 328 00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:15,885 if this piece of food he thought maybe it was a cat, 329 00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:17,925 he would take a little piece of it, 330 00:18:17,925 --> 00:18:20,805 and if the cat would eat it, 331 00:18:20,805 --> 00:18:23,430 it would be a rabbit and you wouldn't have to worry. 332 00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:26,400 But if the cat wouldn't want anything to do with it, 333 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,050 you know it was somebody trying to 334 00:18:28,050 --> 00:18:30,420 peddle a cat for a rabbit. 335 00:18:30,420 --> 00:18:33,255 [LAUGHTER] And that was 336 00:18:33,255 --> 00:18:38,070 their unscientific method of verifying food quality, 337 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:40,050 if you will. [LAUGHTER] 338 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:41,700 >> I think that says a lot about cats. 339 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:50,010 [LAUGHTER] 340 00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:53,130 So in addition to hiding people, 341 00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:55,230 do you recall your family 342 00:18:55,230 --> 00:18:56,730 being involved in any other 343 00:18:56,730 --> 00:18:58,785 resistance kind of activities? 344 00:18:58,785 --> 00:19:01,170 >> Not that I can remember, 345 00:19:01,170 --> 00:19:03,240 not that my parents had told me. 346 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,455 I'm sure there was incidents that happened that 347 00:19:07,455 --> 00:19:14,290 they thought best not to tell us and share with us. 348 00:19:17,060 --> 00:19:20,400 >> When the first part of Holland was 349 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,300 liberated in September of 1944, 350 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:26,475 was Utrecht part of that, 351 00:19:26,475 --> 00:19:29,730 or were they stuck on the other side? 352 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:33,180 >> The only information I have on that is, again, 353 00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,910 I was talking to my sister a while 354 00:19:35,910 --> 00:19:39,075 back and she remembers when 355 00:19:39,075 --> 00:19:42,225 Utrecht was liberated because it was 356 00:19:42,225 --> 00:19:46,990 a big parade. Excuse me. 357 00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:53,260 >> She's got Kleenex behind. 358 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:20,780 >> She was saying, 359 00:20:30,090 --> 00:20:33,115 when the army came through, 360 00:20:33,115 --> 00:20:36,080 they were giving everybody chocolate. 361 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,395 And the irony was my sister was allergic 362 00:20:41,395 --> 00:20:50,600 to chocolate. I'm sorry. 363 00:20:53,400 --> 00:21:01,840 >> So it was 364 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,080 this very intense emotional time the Army came through. 365 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,565 Were the Canadians, 366 00:21:06,565 --> 00:21:09,380 or Americans or British? 367 00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:13,825 >> I thought she said that they were Americans. 368 00:21:13,825 --> 00:21:17,230 I thought, but there could have been a mixture. 369 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:19,670 Yeah, obviously. 370 00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:23,350 >> And did your family tell you about 371 00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:26,680 any really hard time right before liberation? 372 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,465 For some people that time, 373 00:21:28,465 --> 00:21:30,400 the months leading right up to liberation, 374 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,860 there were tremendous food shortages. 375 00:21:32,860 --> 00:21:37,660 >> I remember the main trouble 376 00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:42,070 that they would have is food. 377 00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:44,170 And my mother was telling me that, 378 00:21:44,170 --> 00:21:46,255 they would get a potato too, 379 00:21:46,255 --> 00:21:48,535 and that would be the food for the week. 380 00:21:48,535 --> 00:21:52,465 Make soup out of it and add whatever to it 381 00:21:52,465 --> 00:21:57,130 and food was a big issue. 382 00:21:57,130 --> 00:22:02,710 And my sister I think probably 383 00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:08,230 to this day she's had a lot of health issues, 384 00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:12,460 and I think my personal opinion 385 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:15,760 is that because she probably didn't get 386 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,315 the proper nutrients and milk 387 00:22:19,315 --> 00:22:22,090 that attributes a lot of 388 00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:25,615 her health issues now because when you're growing up, 389 00:22:25,615 --> 00:22:30,115 you need to build good bones and all that. 390 00:22:30,115 --> 00:22:31,420 >> And she would've been right at 391 00:22:31,420 --> 00:22:35,740 that cusp growth spurt age during that time. 392 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:37,945 >> And milk was hard to get. 393 00:22:37,945 --> 00:22:43,550 I remember they would get powdered milk. 394 00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:46,480 But my sister too, 395 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,860 was allergic to a lot of stuff, 396 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:50,410 so they were really had to be careful 397 00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:54,370 what they could get her and food was really limited. 398 00:22:54,370 --> 00:22:59,380 So the food was really a struggle. 399 00:22:59,380 --> 00:23:03,925 >> And did they tell you any stories about air raids 400 00:23:03,925 --> 00:23:07,720 or blackouts having to make sure that they were. 401 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,665 >> I don't remember any specific stories, 402 00:23:11,665 --> 00:23:13,180 but I remember in general, 403 00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:14,635 it was very common. 404 00:23:14,635 --> 00:23:17,065 The power would go out. 405 00:23:17,065 --> 00:23:20,090 There'd be blackouts. 406 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,475 That would go on quite a bit. 407 00:23:24,475 --> 00:23:30,700 And I believe that 408 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:34,120 there's some parts of the city that the Germans bombed. 409 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,730 And I can't be 100% sure, 410 00:23:36,730 --> 00:23:39,460 but it seems like one of the stories is 411 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:42,250 about a aid sirens 412 00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:45,370 going off and bombers overhead and that type of thing. 413 00:23:45,370 --> 00:23:47,650 But I don't have 414 00:23:47,650 --> 00:23:50,005 any real specific information 415 00:23:50,005 --> 00:23:51,700 when and where and that type of thing. 416 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:54,550 >> Sure. Sometimes it's just this general impression 417 00:23:54,550 --> 00:23:56,560 that people experienced. 418 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,225 So liberation comes, there's a parade. 419 00:24:01,225 --> 00:24:06,290 How did life begin to return to normal for your family? 420 00:24:06,750 --> 00:24:10,885 >> Wasn't a whole lot talked about that, 421 00:24:10,885 --> 00:24:14,635 obviously, there had been a big relief. 422 00:24:14,635 --> 00:24:21,490 And I'm not really sure on how quickly after that, 423 00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:26,110 things got back to somewhat of a normal existence as 424 00:24:26,110 --> 00:24:31,450 far as everyday life and work and getting food. 425 00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:35,215 But I can't remember 426 00:24:35,215 --> 00:24:37,450 very many or any stories 427 00:24:37,450 --> 00:24:39,760 that my mother told me about that. 428 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,680 >> Well, eventually, things were normal 429 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,750 enough that you were born in 1950. 430 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,880 But your family immigrated to the United States in 1955. 431 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,730 Did you have any first impressions, 432 00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:57,190 which track do you remember it at all? 433 00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:58,870 >> I remember a little bit. 434 00:24:58,870 --> 00:25:03,620 I remember playing out in from of the house, 435 00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:07,930 soccer was the big thing. 436 00:25:10,530 --> 00:25:13,135 I remember going to school, 437 00:25:13,135 --> 00:25:15,220 but I don't remember too much of it. 438 00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:17,080 And my mother said 439 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,985 that there was a Montessori school there, 440 00:25:21,985 --> 00:25:23,890 and we went to that. 441 00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:27,370 And I think I might have been going to 442 00:25:27,370 --> 00:25:31,510 school like three and a half, 443 00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:35,080 four years of age and going to school. 444 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,960 So it almost sounded like 445 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,330 maybe the modern version of 446 00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:44,125 pre-school or the early version of preschool. 447 00:25:44,125 --> 00:25:49,300 But I think back 448 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:53,395 on that because my dad had learned English in school. 449 00:25:53,395 --> 00:25:58,030 My mother spoke really broken English, 450 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:01,135 and she struggled with the English language. 451 00:26:01,135 --> 00:26:03,970 And my sister, you couldn't tell she doesn't 452 00:26:03,970 --> 00:26:07,345 have an accent or my brother or I. 453 00:26:07,345 --> 00:26:12,235 And I don't remember taking English lessons in school, 454 00:26:12,235 --> 00:26:15,430 but yet coming over here to the United States. 455 00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:19,225 We spoke the language and growing up, 456 00:26:19,225 --> 00:26:22,570 her mother and dad would speak to us in Dutch, 457 00:26:22,570 --> 00:26:24,910 and we answer back in English. 458 00:26:24,910 --> 00:26:29,095 So consequently, I have a reasonable ear for it, 459 00:26:29,095 --> 00:26:30,700 but I can't speak it. 460 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:35,290 My sister is the only one that can read and write Dutch. 461 00:26:35,290 --> 00:26:37,780 But my brother and I were too young to 462 00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:42,040 really learn those skills. 463 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,170 >> So how did your family make 464 00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:47,380 the decision to immigrate to the United States? 465 00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:51,790 >> Well, I think that's a two part story I alluded to 466 00:26:51,790 --> 00:26:57,880 earlier and this is just speculation on my part, 467 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,300 that what my gut tells me that he had enough 468 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:06,265 of being outcast by their relatives. 469 00:27:06,265 --> 00:27:07,840 And then, like I said, 470 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,360 my dad's brother was over here 471 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:14,320 and I'm sure that he told them about, 472 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,440 owning your own car and owning your own house 473 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,930 and it's my understanding in Holland. 474 00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:25,360 Currently if you want 475 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,550 to rent an apartment or buy a house, 476 00:27:27,550 --> 00:27:29,410 you get put on a waiting list. 477 00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:33,715 And there's so much more opportunity 478 00:27:33,715 --> 00:27:34,900 in the United States, 479 00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:40,270 and the old fairy tale 480 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:43,360 about United States was paved with streets of gold. 481 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:45,670 There was a little bit of truth to that, 482 00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:47,380 probably in my parents eyes, 483 00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:53,605 that it was a good opportunity for a new life. 484 00:27:53,605 --> 00:27:56,170 >> Do you remember the passage over? 485 00:27:56,170 --> 00:27:57,490 Did you did you go by ship? 486 00:27:57,490 --> 00:27:59,440 >> Yes. We were on 487 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,735 the Waterman and it was a two week voyage. 488 00:28:04,735 --> 00:28:06,730 And I remember my mother telling 489 00:28:06,730 --> 00:28:09,490 me I did the best because I was only sea 490 00:28:09,490 --> 00:28:12,250 sick three days and everybody else 491 00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:16,270 was in bed for a week or more. 492 00:28:16,270 --> 00:28:20,270 So I do remember 493 00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:39,985 bits and pieces on the port 494 00:28:39,985 --> 00:28:43,070 running around and getting candy. 495 00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:46,975 >> There were people there who were generous? 496 00:28:46,975 --> 00:28:48,265 >> Yeah. 497 00:28:48,265 --> 00:28:52,290 >> And was it all immigrants people coming together? 498 00:28:52,290 --> 00:28:53,655 Were there soldiers to you? 499 00:28:53,655 --> 00:28:57,975 >> Actually, from what my mother had told me or my dad, 500 00:28:57,975 --> 00:28:59,940 I can't remember which one. 501 00:28:59,940 --> 00:29:04,785 It wasn't a traditional passenger ship. 502 00:29:04,785 --> 00:29:09,000 Part of the ship was dedicated for cargo. 503 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,070 And then the other part of the ship 504 00:29:11,070 --> 00:29:13,845 was dedicated for passengers. 505 00:29:13,845 --> 00:29:17,685 So I don't know if all or 506 00:29:17,685 --> 00:29:23,055 what percentage were immigrants or just normal people, 507 00:29:23,055 --> 00:29:27,180 going from Holland to the United States. 508 00:29:27,180 --> 00:29:30,675 >> So what were your first impressions 509 00:29:30,675 --> 00:29:33,690 of America when you arrived? 510 00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:36,390 >> It was interesting because 511 00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:39,435 I started obviously kindergarten. 512 00:29:39,435 --> 00:29:44,080 And to me, the biggest what you'd call 513 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,055 shock was Halloween because 514 00:29:48,055 --> 00:29:51,325 there's no Halloween in Holland. 515 00:29:51,325 --> 00:29:58,300 And I had like the week leading up to Halloween, 516 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:00,910 they were decorating the school 517 00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:03,640 and kids were talking about a costume, 518 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,670 and I thought to myself they're crazy. 519 00:30:06,670 --> 00:30:10,210 They're not going to wear a costume to school. 520 00:30:10,210 --> 00:30:15,430 And sure enough that day of Halloween, 521 00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:19,310 everybody had a costume except for me. 522 00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:26,450 And another tradition is Christmas. 523 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:32,045 In the Netherlands, you have St. Nicholas, 524 00:30:32,045 --> 00:30:34,325 and then you have Black Pete. 525 00:30:34,325 --> 00:30:38,300 They ride around on horses. 526 00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:40,940 And if you're good, 527 00:30:40,940 --> 00:30:43,580 you get candy or 528 00:30:43,580 --> 00:30:44,630 a present or something in 529 00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:46,895 your wooden shoe by the fireplace. 530 00:30:46,895 --> 00:30:49,520 And if you were misbehaving, 531 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,070 you got coal in 532 00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:57,245 your wooden shoe or in your stocking or whatever. 533 00:30:57,245 --> 00:31:02,020 So that was kind of different too that in Holland, 534 00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:05,395 at that time, nobody bought presents for anybody. 535 00:31:05,395 --> 00:31:09,820 It was just I think if the kids were 536 00:31:09,820 --> 00:31:14,880 good the parents gave the kids a reward or a treat. 537 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,020 >> Did your family carry on any of those traditions? 538 00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:20,255 >> Oh, yeah. We started celebrating 539 00:31:20,255 --> 00:31:23,330 Halloween and giving out candy and all that. 540 00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:24,575 Same thing with Christmas. 541 00:31:24,575 --> 00:31:27,970 We would exchange gifts and that type of thing. 542 00:31:27,970 --> 00:31:30,010 >> I remember and I don't know if it's 543 00:31:30,010 --> 00:31:32,920 a tradition in the Netherlands or only in Sweden, 544 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,780 there's something St. Lucia, 545 00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:40,150 or the women wear candles on 546 00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:43,270 their head or I must be thinking of a different country. 547 00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:45,610 >> I don't remember that in Holland, 548 00:31:45,610 --> 00:31:50,250 but the St. Nicholas did have, 549 00:31:50,350 --> 00:31:54,140 I don't know, a pope looking head dress on. 550 00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:58,940 [LAUGHTER] Not exactly a crown but kind of 551 00:31:58,940 --> 00:32:01,550 a fancy thing something maybe the pope 552 00:32:01,550 --> 00:32:04,340 would wear or a clergy. 553 00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:05,030 >> A maya. 554 00:32:05,030 --> 00:32:06,650 >> Something like that. Yeah. 555 00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:09,080 I don't know what it's called. 556 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,440 >> So when you came to the US, 557 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,170 where did you come in and then where did you go? 558 00:32:15,170 --> 00:32:17,490 Where did you live? 559 00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:21,590 >> Obviously by that time Ellis Island 560 00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:26,225 was no longer functional. 561 00:32:26,225 --> 00:32:28,940 So we ended up somewhere in New York 562 00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:32,210 where I'm not particularly sure where exactly. 563 00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:38,665 But I remember we got on a train and from New York, 564 00:32:38,665 --> 00:32:47,615 we went to Michigan and my uncle, 565 00:32:47,615 --> 00:32:50,120 at that time, when we first arrived, 566 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,600 had a bakery on the north side of Lansing off of 567 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,305 Grand River Avenue and above his bakery, 568 00:32:57,305 --> 00:32:59,825 he had living quarters. 569 00:32:59,825 --> 00:33:02,810 He allowed us to stay above his bakery 570 00:33:02,810 --> 00:33:05,300 for I can't remember the first 2, 571 00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:06,950 3, 4, 5 months or 572 00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:09,470 whatever until we could get a place of our own. 573 00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:13,910 And let me back up a little bit before that 574 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:18,470 that before we could come over to the United States, 575 00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:21,170 we had to go through an extensive physical. 576 00:33:21,170 --> 00:33:27,620 And I think every shot known to man we got. 577 00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:30,620 And everybody in our family has 578 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:33,995 got a minimum of three vaccinations. 579 00:33:33,995 --> 00:33:36,560 And I think my sister, 580 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,160 I think she's got like six because 581 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,240 they gave her a couple of 582 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,980 them and they weren't sure if they took, 583 00:33:42,980 --> 00:33:44,720 so they gave her a couple more. 584 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,685 And they gave you 585 00:33:46,685 --> 00:33:51,470 a pretty thorough medical evaluation and health 586 00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:54,590 screening that before they 587 00:33:54,590 --> 00:33:56,870 would grant you a visa to come over here. 588 00:33:56,870 --> 00:34:02,510 >> And did your parents 589 00:34:02,510 --> 00:34:07,610 want to go through the citizenship process 590 00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:10,430 early on or was that a goal? 591 00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:12,095 >> I'm not really sure. 592 00:34:12,095 --> 00:34:17,165 I can't remember any conversations of that. 593 00:34:17,165 --> 00:34:21,065 But the thing that's still amazing to 594 00:34:21,065 --> 00:34:27,185 me is being back in 2000, 595 00:34:27,185 --> 00:34:28,790 I was a single guy 596 00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:31,430 and the company I worked for transferred me from 597 00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:33,620 Michigan to Georgia and 598 00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:36,440 basically took care of everything for you. 599 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,300 And I'm thinking to myself, 600 00:34:46,870 --> 00:34:50,225 to pack up your whole family 601 00:34:50,225 --> 00:34:53,370 and to move to a different country. 602 00:35:01,330 --> 00:35:05,510 I wish I could have communicated that to 603 00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:09,870 my dad when he was alive. 604 00:35:17,470 --> 00:35:21,275 >> It's a hard choice to make and so much 605 00:35:21,275 --> 00:35:23,570 support that love he had 606 00:35:23,570 --> 00:35:25,565 for everyone wanting to give them that life? 607 00:35:25,565 --> 00:35:26,820 >> Yeah. 608 00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:29,120 >> What kind of work did he 609 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,655 do when he got work in Michigan? 610 00:35:31,655 --> 00:35:35,900 >> Well, he had an opportunity to go to 611 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:42,365 work for General Motors at a fisher body plant lancing, 612 00:35:42,365 --> 00:35:46,205 and he should have. 613 00:35:46,205 --> 00:35:50,300 But that's water under the bridge. 614 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:54,815 But the interview that he had 615 00:35:54,815 --> 00:35:58,220 the general motors interviewer said he had 616 00:35:58,220 --> 00:36:03,890 too much skill to work on a production line. 617 00:36:03,890 --> 00:36:10,220 But in retrospect, he would have had a lot more benefits, 618 00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:12,480 made a lot more money. 619 00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:15,740 As it turned out, 620 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:18,065 my dad went to work for 621 00:36:18,065 --> 00:36:21,290 a little portering shop 622 00:36:21,290 --> 00:36:25,355 where the owner worked and he was the only employee. 623 00:36:25,355 --> 00:36:29,360 So he had no medical insurance, no paid vacation, 624 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,430 and it put us in 625 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:35,780 some financial difficulty when 626 00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:39,530 my dad had a heart attack and didn't have insurance. 627 00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:45,560 But that's the balance of life. 628 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,880 You do something you 629 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,620 like or you do something where you can make 630 00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:53,040 money at the two don't always meet. 631 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,930 >> And when he was working in 632 00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:59,495 the upholstery shop in Lansing, 633 00:36:59,495 --> 00:37:03,690 did he have clients all over? 634 00:37:03,940 --> 00:37:07,220 >> He was basically an employee. 635 00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:12,110 So the owner of the company had a shop and 636 00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:14,210 people would come in and 637 00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:17,330 then they didn't acquire business that way, 638 00:37:17,330 --> 00:37:19,475 but basically all the work my dad 639 00:37:19,475 --> 00:37:22,730 did was for the shop or for the owner. 640 00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:25,880 And I remember my dad telling us and 641 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,275 asking my brother and I if 642 00:37:27,275 --> 00:37:29,075 we wanted to go into the business, 643 00:37:29,075 --> 00:37:31,400 be upholster and my brother said, 644 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,110 no, I didn't want to do it. 645 00:37:33,110 --> 00:37:36,410 So dad says, if you two would 646 00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:39,935 have wanted to join and be an upholster, 647 00:37:39,935 --> 00:37:41,975 he'd set up his own shop. 648 00:37:41,975 --> 00:37:43,850 But he said, no sense setting up 649 00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:46,910 a shop if you're not going to take over the business. 650 00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:54,725 So my brother and I we didn't want to do that. 651 00:37:54,725 --> 00:37:56,810 My brother had the skills. 652 00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:59,120 My brother's got that carpenter gene, 653 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,670 but I can barely pound a nail in, 654 00:38:01,670 --> 00:38:03,560 so it didn't make a whole lot of sense 655 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,050 for me to be an upholster. 656 00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:11,705 >> What kind of work did you end up doing? 657 00:38:11,705 --> 00:38:14,420 What excited you in school? 658 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:16,955 >> Well, not a whole lot. 659 00:38:16,955 --> 00:38:20,240 I had probably in this day and age, 660 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:21,635 if I was in school, 661 00:38:21,635 --> 00:38:24,500 I would be diagnosed with ADD. 662 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,070 I could spend all day 663 00:38:28,070 --> 00:38:29,450 in classroom just looking 664 00:38:29,450 --> 00:38:30,755 out the window and day dreaming. 665 00:38:30,755 --> 00:38:33,930 I just didn't have any interest. 666 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:40,955 I on a very good day, 667 00:38:40,955 --> 00:38:44,330 if I applied myself 110%, 668 00:38:44,330 --> 00:38:45,860 I was a B student. 669 00:38:45,860 --> 00:38:49,805 And I remember my first year in junior high, 670 00:38:49,805 --> 00:38:51,800 I got Cs and Bs, 671 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,855 and my parents were just delighted. 672 00:38:53,855 --> 00:38:55,280 They thought I had made 673 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,880 the corner and I was headed down the right path. 674 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,380 And then in junior high, 675 00:39:00,380 --> 00:39:04,040 you get to know kids and you get to be 676 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,105 more concerned about being 677 00:39:07,105 --> 00:39:11,025 accepted and social and having fun. 678 00:39:11,025 --> 00:39:16,685 I actually swam competitively in junior high, 679 00:39:16,685 --> 00:39:20,300 and I swam competitively in high school, 680 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:23,780 and I set some city records 681 00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:26,045 and school records and pool records. 682 00:39:26,045 --> 00:39:30,425 And I was offered a couple of swimming scholarships. 683 00:39:30,425 --> 00:39:34,670 But the goof off I was in high school, 684 00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:38,000 I barely maintained a D average, 685 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,610 and I barely stayed on the swimming team because 686 00:39:40,610 --> 00:39:44,195 my grades were border line every semester. 687 00:39:44,195 --> 00:39:49,880 And there's a lot of things I don't remember, 688 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,970 but I remember I 689 00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:54,530 applied at Central Michigan 690 00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:56,750 because they offered me a full scholarship, 691 00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:59,180 and I got a letter back. 692 00:39:59,180 --> 00:40:03,665 And it was a boilerplate type letter 693 00:40:03,665 --> 00:40:06,260 and at the bottom that said, 694 00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:09,710 Mr. Kohler, we're sorry to inform you that you 695 00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:13,415 have some inadequate grades in some academic areas. 696 00:40:13,415 --> 00:40:18,920 Really? D average they were very polite. 697 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:26,450 [LAUGHTER] 698 00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:28,160 >> Did you have a sense at all with 699 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,320 your other siblings and your parents? 700 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,770 Did they miss home, home being the Netherlands? 701 00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:34,280 >> Yeah. 702 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:34,940 >> They miss? 703 00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:42,920 >> Yes. It's ironic that after my dad died, 704 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,160 my mother's relatives came out of 705 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,050 the woodwork and they 706 00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:50,075 all wanted to come over and they all wanted to visit. 707 00:40:50,075 --> 00:40:53,930 And I by that time 708 00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:59,335 I wasn't real happy with my mother's side of the family. 709 00:40:59,335 --> 00:41:01,780 But after my dad died, 710 00:41:01,780 --> 00:41:04,765 my mother did go back several times. 711 00:41:04,765 --> 00:41:07,420 My sister went back. 712 00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:12,010 I think twice, and even my niece, 713 00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:15,460 one year went back with my mother. 714 00:41:15,460 --> 00:41:18,280 And I can remember one time when they came back, 715 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,345 my mother was telling me that 716 00:41:21,345 --> 00:41:25,955 they had torn down our house where we used to live, 717 00:41:25,955 --> 00:41:29,660 and it was at that time, 718 00:41:29,660 --> 00:41:32,225 parking lot for a bank. 719 00:41:32,225 --> 00:41:36,740 And I don't know if I've told her this, 720 00:41:36,740 --> 00:41:39,170 but I was a bachelor for years. 721 00:41:39,170 --> 00:41:42,080 We just recently got married like four years ago. 722 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,555 So all this time, 723 00:41:44,555 --> 00:41:47,885 my mother was always getting on me for being single. 724 00:41:47,885 --> 00:41:50,990 And I don't know how many times she says, well, 725 00:41:50,990 --> 00:41:53,090 why don't you come back to Holland with 726 00:41:53,090 --> 00:41:55,460 me and find a nice Dutch girl to marry. 727 00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:58,066 [LAUGHTER] 728 00:41:58,066 --> 00:42:00,195 And I told I told her then. 729 00:42:00,195 --> 00:42:02,160 I said, if I'm going to spend 730 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,575 that much money and go to Europe, 731 00:42:04,575 --> 00:42:07,215 I want to go to Switzerland and go scan. 732 00:42:07,215 --> 00:42:09,435 I wouldn't know my relatives. 733 00:42:09,435 --> 00:42:13,560 I want to do something fun or something interesting. 734 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,185 But I never did go back. 735 00:42:16,185 --> 00:42:18,930 I just you stop and 736 00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:22,005 figure that when my parents got married, 737 00:42:22,005 --> 00:42:24,645 my dad was 30, my mother's 28. 738 00:42:24,645 --> 00:42:26,955 I have no grandparents left. 739 00:42:26,955 --> 00:42:31,140 The majority of my aunts and uncles are deceased. 740 00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:33,390 And like I wouldn't know 741 00:42:33,390 --> 00:42:36,480 relatives if they came up to me on the street. 742 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,630 I just unfortunate. 743 00:42:39,630 --> 00:42:43,590 And you got people 744 00:42:43,590 --> 00:42:46,380 that are not family that are considered family, 745 00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:49,230 and you have family members 746 00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:51,450 that you really don't want anything to do with. 747 00:42:51,450 --> 00:42:54,555 So I think it's different for everybody. 748 00:42:54,555 --> 00:42:56,760 >> Absolutely. Well, the first 749 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,360 time I met you brought in a medal. 750 00:43:01,430 --> 00:43:05,420 And one quick note before I ask you about that, 751 00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:07,325 you have a little bit of tissue? 752 00:43:07,325 --> 00:43:08,390 >> Oh, I'm sorry. 753 00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:08,990 >> No. That's okay. 754 00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:12,240 [OVERLAPPING] I wasn't sure if it was. 755 00:43:12,370 --> 00:43:14,000 >> Thank you. 756 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,430 >> Sure. So you had brought this medal that 757 00:43:20,430 --> 00:43:22,710 your parents had saved after 758 00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:27,705 the war which marked the liberation of Holland. 759 00:43:27,705 --> 00:43:30,930 What were the family stories about that? 760 00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:33,990 Were there any stories that were in your family? 761 00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:35,730 >> Not really. And I think we 762 00:43:35,730 --> 00:43:37,560 talked a little bit about it previously 763 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,295 that I was under the impression that, 764 00:43:41,295 --> 00:43:43,635 that was given to my mother and father. 765 00:43:43,635 --> 00:43:47,580 And after the research that you did to me, 766 00:43:47,580 --> 00:43:50,925 I question that now if they might have purchased it. 767 00:43:50,925 --> 00:43:53,730 I'm not so sure now that it was given to them, 768 00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:58,005 but a couple of times, 769 00:43:58,005 --> 00:44:00,330 my mother had mentioned that because of 770 00:44:00,330 --> 00:44:03,720 what they did to help the 771 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:07,380 underground and hide Jews and 772 00:44:07,380 --> 00:44:10,350 and make life miserable 773 00:44:10,350 --> 00:44:12,540 for the Germans where and when they could, 774 00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:16,140 that's what it represented. 775 00:44:16,140 --> 00:44:18,540 >> And that's always one of those things 776 00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:21,090 where it represents is important, 777 00:44:21,090 --> 00:44:23,085 when it meant to the family, 778 00:44:23,085 --> 00:44:25,830 whether or not they were given it 779 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:28,200 as a gift by someone who purchased it 780 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,990 at the post office or whether they were the ones that 781 00:44:30,990 --> 00:44:34,885 purchased it at the meeting that is important. 782 00:44:34,885 --> 00:44:38,330 So how did you eventually come to settle in Georgia? 783 00:44:38,330 --> 00:44:40,670 You mentioned that your company transferred you here? 784 00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:48,570 >> Yeah. I had the luxury of back in the '60s, 785 00:44:48,570 --> 00:44:50,820 I was able to go to 786 00:44:50,820 --> 00:44:55,200 Florida a couple of times on vacation. 787 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,160 And the older I got, 788 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,365 the less I like snow and blowing 10 below zero. 789 00:45:04,365 --> 00:45:08,760 So I've been bugging my supervisor to transfer me South. 790 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,060 And every year during your evaluation, 791 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:13,695 where do you want to go on a company, 792 00:45:13,695 --> 00:45:14,910 where do you see yourself, 793 00:45:14,910 --> 00:45:16,530 and I want to go South. 794 00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:19,065 Just somewhere where it doesn't snow. 795 00:45:19,065 --> 00:45:23,010 And they offered me a position here in Kennesaw. 796 00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:26,430 We have a district office 797 00:45:26,430 --> 00:45:28,605 in Kennesaw right off of Chastain. 798 00:45:28,605 --> 00:45:32,115 And I actually tried to talk my boss into 799 00:45:32,115 --> 00:45:34,020 relocating me in Tampa 800 00:45:34,020 --> 00:45:36,360 because we have a facility in Tampa. 801 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,310 And he said, no, 802 00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:39,360 we want to keep you with 803 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,370 the environmental folks and 804 00:45:41,370 --> 00:45:43,920 the other safety folks and so on. 805 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,695 And so I didn't want to push my walk. 806 00:45:46,695 --> 00:45:48,945 >> Remind me again, what company you work for? 807 00:45:48,945 --> 00:45:50,655 >> Marathon Petroleum. 808 00:45:50,655 --> 00:45:58,290 And they hired the moving van 809 00:45:58,290 --> 00:46:02,070 and took care of all the issues and it 810 00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:04,200 was interesting because when 811 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,660 the moving an showed up at my house, 812 00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:09,180 the mover comes in the house and says, 813 00:46:09,180 --> 00:46:10,500 Mr. Cole, we want to sit 814 00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:12,360 right there in that chair and don't move. 815 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,070 We'll take care of all the rest. 816 00:46:14,070 --> 00:46:17,190 And since we've been married, 817 00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:20,175 we've moved four times. 818 00:46:20,175 --> 00:46:24,165 And we've had to pack and unpack everything ourselves. 819 00:46:24,165 --> 00:46:27,150 It's really nice when somebody does 820 00:46:27,150 --> 00:46:30,045 all the grunt work for you. 821 00:46:30,045 --> 00:46:33,780 >> Absolutely. So tell me about meeting your wife. 822 00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:35,520 Did you meet her here in Georgia? 823 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,285 >> Yeah. I actually met her online. 824 00:46:39,285 --> 00:46:44,460 And then we had some online chats. 825 00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:47,790 And then she got 826 00:46:47,790 --> 00:46:50,880 brave and figured she'd meet me and we met 827 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,790 at Bahama Breeze over here on 828 00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:57,915 Bart Parkway and had dinner and took off from there. 829 00:46:57,915 --> 00:46:58,920 >> That's great. 830 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,935 >> And I always liked telling this part of it. 831 00:47:01,935 --> 00:47:04,290 I asked her after a while. 832 00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:06,000 I says, well, what about 833 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,510 my online profile attracted you. 834 00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:11,130 I said, my dimples, 835 00:47:11,130 --> 00:47:14,580 my green eyes, my smile. 836 00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:17,460 And she says, no, I saw you like to drink wine. 837 00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:21,510 [LAUGHTER] 838 00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:24,350 >> [OVERLAPPING] All that fun 839 00:47:24,350 --> 00:47:26,255 that you had in high school paid off. 840 00:47:26,255 --> 00:47:27,930 >> There you go. 841 00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:31,740 >> So these are 842 00:47:31,740 --> 00:47:33,000 questions I always ask 843 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,380 everyone at the end of an interview. 844 00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:38,430 What do you think students should take away 845 00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:41,710 from learning about your family's experiences. 846 00:47:43,790 --> 00:47:48,090 >> That's hard to do without getting on a soapbox 847 00:47:48,090 --> 00:47:51,585 and preaching and lecturing. 848 00:47:51,585 --> 00:47:56,655 But I get a little 849 00:47:56,655 --> 00:47:59,400 irritated when people complain 850 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,130 about how bad United States is. 851 00:48:02,130 --> 00:48:07,035 And it's by no means perfect granted, 852 00:48:07,035 --> 00:48:10,455 but going through hard times. 853 00:48:10,455 --> 00:48:12,720 And you get the same thing that 854 00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:15,150 people over in this country, 855 00:48:15,150 --> 00:48:17,610 older folks that have gone through the depression. 856 00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:21,060 I've known lots of people that people 857 00:48:21,060 --> 00:48:25,725 that still to this day will 858 00:48:25,725 --> 00:48:28,380 take a piece of 859 00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:30,765 aluminum foil that they've used to cook on 860 00:48:30,765 --> 00:48:33,450 clean it and then put it back to use it 861 00:48:33,450 --> 00:48:37,150 again or a plastic bag. 862 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,645 If you experience something like that, 863 00:48:42,645 --> 00:48:45,600 it gives you a totally different perspective. 864 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:52,020 You appreciate life a lot more experiencing those things. 865 00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:59,595 I said, not and I can see that in my own family. 866 00:48:59,595 --> 00:49:03,150 When I was 12, 13, 867 00:49:03,150 --> 00:49:07,245 14 years old, I was mowing yards for $0.50. 868 00:49:07,245 --> 00:49:10,350 I was shoveling snow in the wintertime 869 00:49:10,350 --> 00:49:13,545 for one quarter $0.50 or whatever. 870 00:49:13,545 --> 00:49:17,070 I remember my first job, 871 00:49:17,070 --> 00:49:18,585 we lived about, 872 00:49:18,585 --> 00:49:20,490 I'm going to say about two miles 873 00:49:20,490 --> 00:49:21,975 from Lansing Country Club. 874 00:49:21,975 --> 00:49:24,210 So I'd hop on my bike 875 00:49:24,210 --> 00:49:27,270 and ride to the country club and I'd be a caddie. 876 00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:29,400 And on a good day, 877 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,400 you could make three or $4 plus the guy 878 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,820 would buy you a pop or an ice cream con. 879 00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:38,235 And that was great. 880 00:49:38,235 --> 00:49:45,190 And my own my own nephew, 881 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,770 he didn't get a job until he started at Michigan State. 882 00:49:49,770 --> 00:49:52,290 And then he was just delivering 883 00:49:52,290 --> 00:49:55,350 pizzas for Papa John for beer money. 884 00:49:55,350 --> 00:49:57,060 And I don't know. 885 00:49:57,060 --> 00:50:00,030 I sound like an old fuddy daddy when 886 00:50:00,030 --> 00:50:04,455 I start talking this way, so I'll stop. 887 00:50:04,455 --> 00:50:06,705 >> That's okay. 888 00:50:06,705 --> 00:50:10,260 So is there anything I haven't asked you 889 00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:12,945 about that you'd want to talk about? 890 00:50:12,945 --> 00:50:16,260 >> No. I'm trying to think. 891 00:50:16,260 --> 00:50:18,555 There was something I wanted to 892 00:50:18,555 --> 00:50:22,570 but I can't think of what it was now. 893 00:50:24,620 --> 00:50:29,500 Yeah, we pretty much covered everything. 894 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:37,345 I think pretty much all the relevant stuff, 895 00:50:37,345 --> 00:50:39,535 I think we've pretty much covered. 896 00:50:39,535 --> 00:50:41,155 >> Well, thank you for your time. 897 00:50:41,155 --> 00:50:44,710 >> Well, thank you for putting up with me. 898 00:50:44,710 --> 00:50:46,570 >> [inaudible] challenging. We really appreciate 899 00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:48,820 your story sharing it with us. 900 00:50:48,820 --> 00:50:51,790 Thank you. What a great job you do. 901 00:50:51,790 --> 00:50:54,160 >> She wanted me to have it. 902 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,145 She said, after I'm gone, 903 00:50:57,145 --> 00:51:00,020 I want to know what's in a safe place. 904 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:07,090 But the youngest is always the spoiled one. 905 00:51:07,090 --> 00:51:13,525 Of the youngest of the family can get away with murder 906 00:51:13,525 --> 00:51:17,830 and just natural chain of 907 00:51:17,830 --> 00:51:23,410 events that I see stuff that my brother was able to do, 908 00:51:23,410 --> 00:51:24,805 my sister never was, 909 00:51:24,805 --> 00:51:28,345 and I had them all beaten because I could do no wrong. 910 00:51:28,345 --> 00:51:30,385 I could walk on water 911 00:51:30,385 --> 00:51:35,570 especially after I had moved out of the house. 912 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,565 I remember my mother criticizing my brother and 913 00:51:39,565 --> 00:51:44,995 criticizing my sister and I thinking, 914 00:51:44,995 --> 00:51:47,065 why spend time on that? 915 00:51:47,065 --> 00:51:49,180 What good is it going to do? 916 00:51:49,180 --> 00:51:52,165 You're not going to change anybody. 917 00:51:52,165 --> 00:51:54,745 >> But he and his mom were very close, 918 00:51:54,745 --> 00:51:56,980 and they would sit on the front porch 919 00:51:56,980 --> 00:51:58,990 of her house and she would 920 00:51:58,990 --> 00:52:04,840 share stories with them at her house in Lansing? 921 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,240 What neighborhood did they live in? 922 00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,330 >> Do you know roughly where 923 00:52:13,330 --> 00:52:18,070 Mount Hope and Logan Street intersect? 924 00:52:18,070 --> 00:52:18,715 >> Yes. 925 00:52:18,715 --> 00:52:21,775 >> In fact, we were growing up, 926 00:52:21,775 --> 00:52:25,390 we were basically two blocks 927 00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:29,030 from St. Casper's if you know where that is. 928 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:33,145 I went to Moors Park Elementary School 929 00:52:33,145 --> 00:52:36,250 and then Walter French Junior High, 930 00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:38,350 and then Sexton High School. 931 00:52:38,350 --> 00:52:42,350 We basically stayed in that general vicinity. 932 00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:51,280 We lived in a duplex for I don't know how long. 933 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,430 When we moved out of our uncle's place, 934 00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:56,860 we moved into a duplex and 935 00:52:56,860 --> 00:53:00,010 we stayed there for years and years, 936 00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:01,810 and then finally my parents bought 937 00:53:01,810 --> 00:53:05,125 a house on the other side of Mount Hope on Rondel. 938 00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:08,875 Do you know where Shafer's Bakery was or is? 939 00:53:08,875 --> 00:53:10,030 >> Yes. 940 00:53:10,030 --> 00:53:13,090 >> Wow. [LAUGHTER] Because 941 00:53:13,090 --> 00:53:15,550 Rundle Street runs right next to 942 00:53:15,550 --> 00:53:17,770 the bakery and then it crosses Mount Hope. 943 00:53:17,770 --> 00:53:21,880 We're basically two blocks off of Mount Hope and talk 944 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,230 about an enjoyable childhood at night. 945 00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:29,620 This was a huge bakery and they'd bake bread 946 00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:31,150 and you'd sit on the front porch 947 00:53:31,150 --> 00:53:33,890 and you could smell fresh bread. 948 00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:39,850 That sensation, that aroma was just fantastic. 949 00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:43,870 [LAUGHTER] One of the advantages 950 00:53:43,870 --> 00:53:47,260 of living near the bakery. 951 00:53:47,260 --> 00:53:50,110 We used to go up there, they 952 00:53:50,110 --> 00:53:52,570 called it the Dael bread store, 953 00:53:52,570 --> 00:53:54,190 buy bread all the time. 954 00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:58,300 We never lacked for anything, 955 00:53:58,300 --> 00:54:03,250 but we always had hamburgers and chicken. 956 00:54:03,250 --> 00:54:04,525 We didn't always eat steak, 957 00:54:04,525 --> 00:54:09,680 but basically traditional middle-class upbringing. 958 00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:12,430 A lot of fun memories. 959 00:54:12,430 --> 00:54:14,710 I learned how to swim at Morris pool. 960 00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:18,115 I don't know if you remember or know where that is? 961 00:54:18,115 --> 00:54:18,595 >> Morris? 962 00:54:18,595 --> 00:54:21,355 >> Morris Park swimming pool. 963 00:54:21,355 --> 00:54:25,030 Actually, back in I think it was 964 00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:29,050 '67 and '68, I was a lifeguard there. 965 00:54:29,050 --> 00:54:31,810 I worked there, and I think 966 00:54:31,810 --> 00:54:38,635 that pool they need like a million five to fix it. 967 00:54:38,635 --> 00:54:41,755 The pool, I want to say it's 100 years old, 968 00:54:41,755 --> 00:54:47,185 and there's a big effort to try and save that pool. 969 00:54:47,185 --> 00:54:49,810 >> When I lived there, I remember going by. 970 00:54:49,810 --> 00:54:53,480 It wasn't open to the public, but it was still there. 971 00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:58,990 >> It was closed for a couple of years, 972 00:54:58,990 --> 00:55:01,240 and then I think they put some money into it. 973 00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,620 I think maybe in the last 974 00:55:02,620 --> 00:55:04,150 two or three years it's been open, 975 00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:07,105 but I think it's on the chopping block again. 976 00:55:07,105 --> 00:55:11,300 It needs a lot of money. 977 00:55:12,270 --> 00:55:14,620 >> But it's fun to reminisce 978 00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:16,210 about a place that I've also lived. 979 00:55:16,210 --> 00:55:17,610 [LAUGHTER] 980 00:55:17,610 --> 00:55:20,860 >> One thing and think about it, 981 00:55:20,860 --> 00:55:23,920 but that coin I have, 982 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,750 I think there would be 983 00:55:28,750 --> 00:55:35,750 value if I donated it to you to the museum. 984 00:55:36,690 --> 00:55:39,190 >> We would use anything 985 00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:41,780 like that for educational purposes. 986 00:55:43,770 --> 00:55:48,455 >> Like I said, think about it, 987 00:55:48,455 --> 00:55:54,110 I would be honored if you would display it somewhere. 988 00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:57,250 >> Anything that's in our collection would 989 00:55:57,250 --> 00:56:00,415 become part of a rotating display. 990 00:56:00,415 --> 00:56:02,350 So I don't know if you've been inside 991 00:56:02,350 --> 00:56:04,660 our Parallel Journeys Exhibit. 992 00:56:04,660 --> 00:56:09,160 We have currently this currency on display 993 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,215 related to Nazi Germany and Jewish life. 994 00:56:14,215 --> 00:56:17,650 But we also, those cases are always changing. 995 00:56:17,650 --> 00:56:19,675 We're always trying to bring in 996 00:56:19,675 --> 00:56:20,980 different stories and in 997 00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:23,890 our introductory exhibit space as well. 998 00:56:23,890 --> 00:56:27,385 I could see this coin telling multiple stories. 999 00:56:27,385 --> 00:56:29,800 We talk about how artifacts can 1000 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,940 tell different stories [inaudible]. 1001 00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:34,900 >> Visual always helps. 1002 00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:37,495 >> Exactly. So for you, 1003 00:56:37,495 --> 00:56:40,780 it has this deep familial connection. 1004 00:56:40,780 --> 00:56:44,140 It's also a story about the Dutch government 1005 00:56:44,140 --> 00:56:45,700 minting a coin to 1006 00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:47,875 commemorate this really important moment. 1007 00:56:47,875 --> 00:56:54,700 >> Because if you don't put it on display, 1008 00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:56,860 it's going to end up in a box somewhere, 1009 00:56:56,860 --> 00:56:59,920 and I don't think any 1010 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,010 of our kids or grandkids are interested in that, 1011 00:57:03,010 --> 00:57:06,130 and I'd rather have it here 1012 00:57:06,130 --> 00:57:09,460 than at Salvation Army or goodwill or someplace. 1013 00:57:09,460 --> 00:57:10,900 [LAUGHTER] 1014 00:57:10,900 --> 00:57:14,005 >> Think about it because we protect artifacts too. 1015 00:57:14,005 --> 00:57:15,220 Nothing is ever on display all 1016 00:57:15,220 --> 00:57:17,335 the time because otherwise, 1017 00:57:17,335 --> 00:57:19,900 that's not the best thing for the object, either. 1018 00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:22,090 So when it's rotated off display, 1019 00:57:22,090 --> 00:57:25,510 we keep things in preservation boxes. 1020 00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:27,625 In our collections catalog, 1021 00:57:27,625 --> 00:57:29,035 we always know that they're there. 1022 00:57:29,035 --> 00:57:32,590 Sometimes we bring things out for a home school day 1023 00:57:32,590 --> 00:57:36,730 about liberation or on a particular topic. 1024 00:57:36,730 --> 00:57:39,490 And then it might go back off display, 1025 00:57:39,490 --> 00:57:41,185 but that's how museums works. 1026 00:57:41,185 --> 00:57:43,330 Things are on display, off display, 1027 00:57:43,330 --> 00:57:45,670 but they're part of the tools 1028 00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:47,500 that we have to tell these stories. 1029 00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:49,480 >> And I can imagine there's a benefit to that 1030 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,580 because that way you're 1031 00:57:51,580 --> 00:57:53,830 growing more people because it's changing. 1032 00:57:53,830 --> 00:57:56,200 [OVERLAPPING] You've got different and not the same old 1033 00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,570 thing over and over again. 1034 00:57:58,570 --> 00:57:59,740 >> So you can certainly think about it. 1035 00:57:59,740 --> 00:58:01,000 But if you decide that 1036 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,350 that's something you really want to do, 1037 00:58:02,350 --> 00:58:06,520 we can accept an appointment and you can donate it to us. 1038 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,220 Thank you for the offer. I know 1039 00:58:09,220 --> 00:58:11,420 that was a lot of extra stuff.