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>> Today is Thursday,
March 24th,

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2016, and I'm here

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in the Sturgis Library at
Kennesaw State University.

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My name is Adina Langer,

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and I'm the curator of
the Museum of History and

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Holocaust Education and
I'm here with Harry Kone.

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Can you please start by
saying your full name?

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>> My full name is Harry
Joseph Kone, K-O-N-E.

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>> And where and
when were you born?

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>> I was born August 16,

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1920 in Baltimore, Maryland.

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St. Ann's Hospital.

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>> Can you tell me
about your family?

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What did your parents
do for a living?

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>> My mother was
always a housewife and

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my father brought in ships
to the harbor in Baltimore.

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He worked for the Baltimore
and Ohio Railroad.

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And in those days,
different railroads

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had piers in Baltimore,

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like the New
York-Pennsylvania Railroad,

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Southern Pacific.

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Different railroads had piers

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and they'd bring the ships in

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and they'd unload these ships.

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And then obviously,

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all the freight would go
into the freight cars and

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then they would take it to the

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various cities, towns, places.

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>> Did you live close to

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the pier with your family?
What was your movement?

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>> We moved around
several times,

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but mainly in west
part of Baltimore.

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>> And what did your
neighborhood look like?

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Do you remember?

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>> We lived in what
they call row houses.

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If you want to go
around the block,

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you have to get out of
your front door and walk

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all the way around the block
to get in the back door.

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But it was very
nice in those days.

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We only had one heater.

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That was the furnace
in the basement.

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But neighbors were
very friendly,

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cooperative. I enjoyed it.

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>> And the neighborhood,

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were there lots of
different kinds of people,

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different jobs that they did

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or were a lot the
families just like yours?

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>> I'm not sure. Growing up,

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we didn't talk too much
about what your father did.

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So we were just a bunch of
neighbors who got along,

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had fun, played all the games

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that kids play in those days.

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The policeman though
were very nice.

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They used to walk around the
streets with their little,

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I forget what they
call their sticks,

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but they would have a way of
tossing them up and down,

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and then up and so on,

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and they'd teach
us how to do that.

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So I learned a policeman's
baton, I guess in those days.

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So I think in our neighborhood,

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we had maybe 20 boys
and maybe three girls.

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>> Do you have any siblings?

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>> No. I didn't.

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>> And did your mother, did
she stay home with you?

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>> Yes. All the time.

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>> So where did you
graduate from high school?

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>> When?

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>> What and where?

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>> Baltimore, Maryland, Mount
Saint Joseph High School,

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and I graduated in 1938.

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It was a all boys
high school at time.

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>> And you received
a scholarship.

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Where did you receive
a scholarship

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from when you graduated?

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>> That was to
University of Wisconsin.

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They were having a
special program.

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They wanted people who

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could act in and write
scripts for television.

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They were starting that at

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that particular time
about 1939, 1940.

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>> And was that something you

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did while you were
in high school?

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>> No. This was after I
graduated from high school.

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>> How did you know
you wanted to do this?

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>> How did I know? It
was something different.

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I thought I liked
to learn to write

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and maybe act in

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TV because I were just
starting in TV in those days.

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So it's just an excuse probably
to get out of Baltimore.

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>> And what did you know
about Wisconsin at the time?

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Had you ever been
out of the State?

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>> Didn't know anything
about Wisconsin.

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So I just hopped on a
train and went from

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Baltimore to Milwaukee
on the train.

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>> At this time, did

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you know much about what
was going on in the world?

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Did you have a sense that
we were on the eve of war?

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>> Yes. We were
talking about it in

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high school and
studying what was

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going on and why
it was happening

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but never thinking about
maybe I'll have to go to war.

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Now, who was our
president in those days?

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That was FDR, was it?

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And he was trying to
keep us out of war

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like Wilson did in World War I.

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So that's about the
same time that he gave

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those four Stacker destroyers to

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England because England was

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losing so many ships because
of the German submarines.

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So yes, we were
talking about it,

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but never thinking that
we would be involved.

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>> So we left off.
It was December 7,

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1941, and you were telling me.

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>> It was a Sunday, right?

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>> It was.

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>> I forget.

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We were in the morning house.

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I think we were having
lunch or dinner.

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Lunch must have been right when

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the news came what
happened at Pearl Harbor.

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>> You mentioned you were dating

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your girlfriend at the time?

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>> Yes. Very interesting.

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There was a lady who ran

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this morning house right
overlooking Lake Michigan

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was one of the big
old fashion houses

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and she rented rooms and
she also served meals.

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And I think we paid for
the whole week 7.50.

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And for dinner, there
would be about 12,

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14 of us having dinner.

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And so at different
times of the day,

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different people would be
at the boarding house.

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And I forget exactly where
we were in the living room,

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I believe, and they
had the radio on,

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and that's how we
heard about it.

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>> So what did you think?

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What did you feel when
you heard about it?

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>> Well, we were in
a state of shock.

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We didn't think Japan would
do anything like that.

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Particularly with
where we were in

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Pearl Harbor with all our
battleships down there,

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but it had been well planned,

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obviously, and they
were very successful.

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They sunk all of
our battleships,

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which destroyed them as
they thought they did.

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And then right away,

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Roosevelt declared war on Japan.

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And then we started
talking and the draft.

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I think we had a draft
at that time, too.

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And I didn't want to be drafted

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and so I had discussion with
my girlfriend at the time.

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Her name was Marjorie.

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And I said, I think I'm going
to go back home and enlist

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and find out what my
father did in World War I.

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He was in the Navy
in World War I

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and see what he would
say and so on. So I did.

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I left at that particular time,

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maybe a month or two
later and went back to

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Baltimore and talked to

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my dad and for some
strange reason,

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we decided I should go
in the Marine Corps.

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So I went down and enlisted
and they accepted me,

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and I went to boot camp.

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>> Now, what year in college
were you at this point?

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>> This was the first year.

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>> So you mentioned
your father was in

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the Navy and you had uncles
who had been in the army?

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>> I had two uncles and they
will later be in the army.

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>> And so you

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received your orders to
report to boot camp.

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How did that come to you?

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How did you get that information

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about where and when you report?

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>> Well, you mean,

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like in the recruiting stations?

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Downtown in Baltimore, they
had recruiting stations when

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I went down and listed at
that particular point.

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>> And did you
spend any time with

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your family before you reported.

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>> Yes. I guess a couple
of months at least.

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And then had a notification

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we to report downtown
in Baltimore.

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And they put us on a train in

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Baltimore and went
to Washington,

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DC and then we

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boarded another train
in Washington and

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went to Paris Island,
South Carolina.

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>> So what were your first
impressions of Paris Island?

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>> I guess the first
impression was,

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what the hell am I doing
in a place like this?

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And till they were

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yelling at us right away,
the drill instructors.

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And then they issued
us uniforms, helmets,

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and shoes and we'd have to
hold a bucket of sand and

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then they'd look down
under our feet and then

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that's the kind of
shoes we got that size,

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whether they fit or not,
that's what you got.

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And I think the thing I remember

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most about just going to

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Paris Island was the fact
that the drill sergeant said,

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now we have you [LAUGHTER].

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Now you are ours.

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And then they did from then on,

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and it was really very

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difficult going
through Paris Island?

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>> And so how long were
you at Paris Island?

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>> I imagine we were
there about eight weeks.

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>> And from there, you
went to, [OVERLAPPING].

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>> I went to the rifle range.

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We went to the rifle
range for a week,

211
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learned how to snap
in as they say,

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and learned all the
positions prone kneeling,

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sitting off hand,

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and then from there,

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we had no leave, nothing.

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We went right to San Diego

217
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and we helped load
not battleships,

218
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but the freighters
and we learned to

219
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ride in the afternoon how
to come down cargo nets.

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First of all, we adjust doing
this on our uniforms on,

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and then we go down with rifles.

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Then we go down with packs,

223
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and then we go down

224
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with all the equipment
that we land with.

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We didn't know what
that was going to be.

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So that was about 40,

227
00:11:32,975 --> 00:11:34,520
50 pounds Saco when you're

228
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back going down
these cargo nets.

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So we learned to do that.

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And after the ship was loaded,

231
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we left San Diego and
off to the islands.

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>> Had you ever been on a
big ship like that before?

233
00:11:47,765 --> 00:11:49,970
>> No. I never had no.

234
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>> And so this was 1942?

235
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>> Yes. Right.

236
00:11:55,890 --> 00:11:58,450
>> what was life like onboard

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the ship while you
were traveling?

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>> Well, In the service,

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you sort of lose contact with

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different people because you
count off by numbers one,

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two, three, four, and
number ones go here,

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00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:16,435
number twos go there,
number threes go here.

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And so the people I was with,

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we were separated aboard ship.

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00:12:20,965 --> 00:12:22,960
And then this one day we lined

246
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up and we went through the one,

247
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two, three fours again.

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And I forget what my
number happened to be,

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00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,895
but they said, all number
two step over here.

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And now they said, you're
now machine gunners.

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So from there on in the ship,

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I learned all about how
to fire a machine gun.

253
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>> Was there any kind of
social life on the ship?

254
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,800
Did you get information?

255
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,420
Was there a radio?

256
00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:51,125
>> No, never had a radio one.

257
00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:56,720
No, we just criss
crossed zigzag,

258
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,255
I guess, until we landed.

259
00:12:59,255 --> 00:13:01,955
And then we were

260
00:13:01,955 --> 00:13:06,600
training again for later on
the other islands, right?

261
00:13:06,970 --> 00:13:10,250
>> So where was the first
place that you landed?

262
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:12,920
>> The first place
was Pango Pango,

263
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,190
and this is where the
first time we were allowed

264
00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:19,400
to fire weapons
with real bullets.

265
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,770
So we knew how to
handle it right.

266
00:13:21,770 --> 00:13:25,415
And then we were doing
coast watching at the time.

267
00:13:25,415 --> 00:13:32,150
We were in a village in

268
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:38,960
Pango Pango and we

269
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,930
would have to take turns
going out for night watch.

270
00:13:41,930 --> 00:13:45,905
And what we would do we'd
have an early lunch.

271
00:13:45,905 --> 00:13:50,450
And then we cross the Carl
Reaves to where we had

272
00:13:50,450 --> 00:13:54,110
a machine gun nest and
we'd have to stay there

273
00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:58,400
all night and if anything arose,

274
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,280
we'd always have a
weapon to fire and

275
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,795
unlike the other groups
that we were with.

276
00:14:05,795 --> 00:14:08,315
And one night, this did happen

277
00:14:08,315 --> 00:14:11,120
when we were out there on duty.

278
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,570
And it was a Japanese submarine

279
00:14:14,570 --> 00:14:17,030
and they began to
unload from their ship.

280
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:21,110
And so we started to fire

281
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:23,950
our machine gun and

282
00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:26,290
nobody did anything because I

283
00:14:26,290 --> 00:14:28,060
don't know if our bullets
reached there or not,

284
00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:30,205
but the day before,

285
00:14:30,205 --> 00:14:34,795
we had to reload
the machine guns.

286
00:14:34,795 --> 00:14:37,675
The boxes that we have,

287
00:14:37,675 --> 00:14:39,565
they carry their ammunition in.

288
00:14:39,565 --> 00:14:41,740
And we didn't know what
they were we were just

289
00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:44,050
putting bullets in where
they were supposed to go.

290
00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:46,830
Then as soon as we started
to fire this machine gun,

291
00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:49,145
we noticed that we
had a lot of tracers.

292
00:14:49,145 --> 00:14:50,750
So it was just a
line from where we

293
00:14:50,750 --> 00:14:53,585
were to where the
bullets were going.

294
00:14:53,585 --> 00:14:55,910
But fortunately, in the
other part of the island,

295
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:58,940
they had the artillery and
I think what they did,

296
00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:00,680
they must have to
gauge from where

297
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,365
our bullets were going
and where they were,

298
00:15:03,365 --> 00:15:05,060
and they could fire like this.

299
00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:09,230
And it frightened the Japanese,

300
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:10,970
their battleship,
or their submarine.

301
00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:13,550
Then they piled back in
again and they shoved off.

302
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:18,935
So that was my first engagement
with firing any weapons.

303
00:15:18,935 --> 00:15:21,965
>> Did you ever

304
00:15:21,965 --> 00:15:25,100
interact with any of the people
that lived on the island?

305
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:30,450
>> Certainly yeah.
What happened there?

306
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,135
We had mosquito netting,

307
00:15:35,135 --> 00:15:37,520
but we didn't have
any other bars

308
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,140
that you put up and then put

309
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:41,090
the netting over these bars to

310
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:43,385
make sure that you were covered.

311
00:15:43,385 --> 00:15:47,330
So we were ordered to go
out and get some sticks.

312
00:15:47,330 --> 00:15:48,770
So we went out and
start and look

313
00:15:48,770 --> 00:15:50,240
around for some sticks
that we thought

314
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320
would work on bunks,

315
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,780
sacks, what we call them.

316
00:15:56,780 --> 00:15:59,390
And we brought in
there what we thought

317
00:15:59,390 --> 00:16:03,485
would first would work properly.

318
00:16:03,485 --> 00:16:05,330
But low and behold,

319
00:16:05,330 --> 00:16:09,350
the talking chief was
alerted what we were

320
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:11,630
doing And we were

321
00:16:11,630 --> 00:16:13,160
told nobody's going to talk to

322
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,990
us the rest of the
time we were here.

323
00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:17,990
So we had to go to them and

324
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:22,790
apologize for cutting in
their harvest patches,

325
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:24,275
I guess, or whatever it was.

326
00:16:24,275 --> 00:16:28,970
And so we apologized
and then after that,

327
00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:30,590
they said, anything you
want, we'll bring you.

328
00:16:30,590 --> 00:16:33,395
So they brought us bananas
and they brought us coconuts.

329
00:16:33,395 --> 00:16:36,800
You just asked for it and
they do that for us now.

330
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,450
But we learned that you don't go

331
00:16:38,450 --> 00:16:40,520
out and just cut down
whatever you want.

332
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,450
So that was another working
with these natives, right?

333
00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:49,925
>> So at this point in time,

334
00:16:49,925 --> 00:16:50,975
as you were training,

335
00:16:50,975 --> 00:16:54,065
you were preparing for
the Guadalcanal campaign?

336
00:16:54,065 --> 00:16:55,325
>> Yes right.

337
00:16:55,325 --> 00:16:59,900
>> So what did Marines have
to do to prepare to go there?

338
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,985
>> Well, we learned to do

339
00:17:01,985 --> 00:17:04,620
what they called overhead fire.

340
00:17:04,750 --> 00:17:08,480
Bullets coming out of
a machine gun will go

341
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,450
so far and they make what
they call a beaten path.

342
00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:15,680
So maybe it be like
35 or 40 yards from

343
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,380
the closest bullet to

344
00:17:18,380 --> 00:17:21,410
the furthest bullet after
you had this overhead fire.

345
00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:24,845
So the troops can

346
00:17:24,845 --> 00:17:27,500
progress while you are
firing over their heads.

347
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,360
That's why it was overhead fire.

348
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,745
But you'd have to stop
at a certain point,

349
00:17:31,745 --> 00:17:33,875
or they knew about how
far they could go.

350
00:17:33,875 --> 00:17:37,415
Otherwise, you're shooting
your own men, right?

351
00:17:37,415 --> 00:17:39,140
So we learned to do that we

352
00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:40,835
just before we went
to Guadalcanal.

353
00:17:40,835 --> 00:17:45,695
>> And were you involved
in the initial invasion?

354
00:17:45,695 --> 00:17:47,945
>> Not the initial
invasion of Guadalcanal.

355
00:17:47,945 --> 00:17:51,410
We came later. We were probably

356
00:17:51,410 --> 00:17:55,160
this next group I
think [OVERLAPPING].

357
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,740
>> So can you tell
me about what it was

358
00:17:57,740 --> 00:18:01,130
like what the island of
Guadalcanal [OVERLAPPING].

359
00:18:01,130 --> 00:18:02,360
>> It certainly is no place you

360
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,160
want to go for a vacation.

361
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,565
A, mosquitoes are horrible.

362
00:18:07,565 --> 00:18:09,740
Although in a way,

363
00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:11,900
they're nice because
they take your blood,

364
00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,790
but they always deposit
something there

365
00:18:13,790 --> 00:18:16,430
and that turns out to
be malaria, right?

366
00:18:16,430 --> 00:18:21,060
Then it rains three times a day.

367
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,955
What else going to
tell you about the,

368
00:18:25,955 --> 00:18:29,030
everything was jungle.

369
00:18:29,030 --> 00:18:31,490
And if you're in a jungle,

370
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:33,770
for more than 15 minutes

371
00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:35,615
without a compass,
you could get lost.

372
00:18:35,615 --> 00:18:38,045
That's how thick the jungle was.

373
00:18:38,045 --> 00:18:41,225
Fortunately for us,
the Japanese had to

374
00:18:41,225 --> 00:18:44,735
attack us because we
had Henderson Field,

375
00:18:44,735 --> 00:18:46,520
and that's what they wanted.

376
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,250
And of course, the
reverse was then we had

377
00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:52,160
after we controlled Guadalcanal.

378
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,930
But that took us six months
to conquer Guadalcanal.

379
00:18:56,930 --> 00:19:00,470
That's how much the Japanese
wanted that because whoever

380
00:19:00,470 --> 00:19:02,420
controlled that island would

381
00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:04,190
control everything to Australia,

382
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:08,270
New Zealand, and parts
of Southern Asia.

383
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:10,820
So they really wanted that.

384
00:19:10,820 --> 00:19:13,550
And of course, we
had a hard time

385
00:19:13,550 --> 00:19:17,855
because we didn't have a Navy.

386
00:19:17,855 --> 00:19:19,760
Our battleships were all gone.

387
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,575
And I think they say that a
Japanese battleship could

388
00:19:24,575 --> 00:19:29,840
fire their big guns
like 14 miles.

389
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,890
So if you had a
destroyer, I mean,

390
00:19:31,890 --> 00:19:33,730
they could blow it out of
the water before it ever

391
00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:36,010
got close enough to fire
at the battleships.

392
00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:37,590
So they controlled
all of that and

393
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:39,570
they controlled
all the airfields.

394
00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:42,470
So we were either shot

395
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:44,090
by the Japanese soldiers

396
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:45,650
trying to come
through the jungles,

397
00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:48,720
where we were bombed
by the Air Force,

398
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,565
or we were bombed by the
Navy on Guadalcanal.

399
00:19:51,565 --> 00:19:53,865
So we really had a
rough time over there.

400
00:19:53,865 --> 00:19:58,700
And if a certain sound
of a plane came,

401
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:00,500
we knew if it was a zero,

402
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:01,960
we were going to be strafed.

403
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,440
If it was a Betsy, we
were going to be bombed.

404
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,730
So we knew which fox
hole was to jump into.

405
00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:10,800
So we were trained very well,

406
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,260
and we were waiting for them.

407
00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:14,200
But they really had

408
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,760
a rough time coming
out of the jungles.

409
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,790
We'd be there waiting for them.

410
00:20:17,790 --> 00:20:22,195
>> So eventually, did
you just war them down?

411
00:20:22,195 --> 00:20:24,020
How did you face them?

412
00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:26,620
>> Well, that's what it was.
They lost more than we did.

413
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:29,480
I think we lost like 1,000

414
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,090
Marines killed and
taking Guadalcanal.

415
00:20:33,090 --> 00:20:36,340
So it was a tough battle.

416
00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:38,700
>> And at that time, did you

417
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,265
know about what was going on
in the rest of the world?

418
00:20:41,265 --> 00:20:44,990
>> No. Only what

419
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:48,770
Tokyo Rode would tell
us we hear by radio,

420
00:20:48,770 --> 00:20:51,785
What was cooking someplace else.

421
00:20:51,785 --> 00:20:55,115
>> Did you ever see news
videos or anything like that?

422
00:20:55,115 --> 00:20:56,640
>> No.

423
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,520
>> And then you caught
Malaria pretty early.

424
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,010
[OVERLAPPING] So what
was your recovery like?

425
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:06,670
What was it like
to have Malaria?

426
00:21:06,790 --> 00:21:10,110
>> It certainly
isn't unpleasant.

427
00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:14,230
You're very weak and you hurt,

428
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:19,190
you ache all over and you're
vomiting quite a bit.

429
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:23,085
So you wish you weren't there.

430
00:21:23,085 --> 00:21:29,175
And we took our Atabrine
we also had quinine.

431
00:21:29,175 --> 00:21:35,220
Today, that's why I like
to drink Scotch, vodka,

432
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:38,130
and quinine water
because you fight

433
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:39,925
malaria with quinine so

434
00:21:39,925 --> 00:21:42,500
I don't want to get
quinine in Atlanta.

435
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,325
>> So after you recovered,

436
00:21:47,325 --> 00:21:50,880
what was your daily life
like on the island?

437
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,235
What were your duties?

438
00:21:53,235 --> 00:21:57,150
>> Well, because we were
in a machine company,

439
00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:59,505
we would be moved
around quite a bit.

440
00:21:59,505 --> 00:22:02,295
Wherever they thought the
enemy could be coming from,

441
00:22:02,295 --> 00:22:04,650
we'd move our unit to

442
00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:08,910
where we could have
firepower and reach

443
00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:12,135
them before they
crossed over because

444
00:22:12,135 --> 00:22:15,750
they were so adamant about
getting Guadalcanal.

445
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:17,565
They needed that airfield.

446
00:22:17,565 --> 00:22:20,695
So we were moving
around quite a bit.

447
00:22:20,695 --> 00:22:23,870
>> And at some point you ended
up helping unload ships.

448
00:22:23,870 --> 00:22:27,060
Can you tell me about
how that happened?

449
00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:30,305
>> It was very difficult for

450
00:22:30,305 --> 00:22:32,060
us to have any kind
of food, anything,

451
00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:36,045
any ships coming into
Guadalcanal because

452
00:22:36,045 --> 00:22:38,130
they could bomb
them or else they

453
00:22:38,130 --> 00:22:40,845
could shoot them out
with their Navy.

454
00:22:40,845 --> 00:22:42,465
But when a ship would come in,

455
00:22:42,465 --> 00:22:44,040
we'd have to unload
it because there were

456
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,820
no docks and there
were no porters.

457
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:50,760
Everything was done
by cargo nets.

458
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,300
The ship would come in,
throw out its anchor,

459
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,600
and we'd have to move cargo in

460
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,715
little Higgins boats come
out and they would unload

461
00:23:02,715 --> 00:23:06,135
big cargo nets coming
down and dropping into

462
00:23:06,135 --> 00:23:08,460
our Higgins boat and

463
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,200
we'd unloaded whatever it

464
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,585
happened to be food
or ammunition.

465
00:23:12,585 --> 00:23:14,250
And then before you know it,

466
00:23:14,250 --> 00:23:15,420
the ship was gone again.

467
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:18,300
So we had to do
everything in a hurry.

468
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,375
One day, we were unloading.

469
00:23:21,375 --> 00:23:22,560
I was there.

470
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,990
I think there were
four of us unloading.

471
00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:28,755
We had our helmets
on cartridge belts,

472
00:23:28,755 --> 00:23:32,850
our rifles we had put in the
bottom of the Higgins boat,

473
00:23:32,850 --> 00:23:36,645
and then all of a sudden,

474
00:23:36,645 --> 00:23:38,610
the ship was being strafed.

475
00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:40,740
And then the cargo net stopped,

476
00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:42,615
whoever stopped the cargo net,

477
00:23:42,615 --> 00:23:47,400
and it split open and
all the things cascaded

478
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,560
down on top of us
and we had to dive

479
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,710
from our Higgins
boat into the ocean.

480
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:56,580
Well, in the process of loading,

481
00:23:56,580 --> 00:24:03,420
I had a lot of ammunition
on my knees and ankles,

482
00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:06,150
so we could store the stuff in

483
00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:09,150
our little Higgins boat so
we can take it to the shore.

484
00:24:09,150 --> 00:24:12,180
And I couldn't pull my
legs out fast enough when

485
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:17,475
all these supplies started
to drop down on top of us.

486
00:24:17,475 --> 00:24:19,560
But finally, I made it
and in the process,

487
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,495
I twisted my knees and

488
00:24:21,495 --> 00:24:24,225
I wrecked my knees really
is what happened to me.

489
00:24:24,225 --> 00:24:28,455
But fortunately, when the
cargo net finally broke open,

490
00:24:28,455 --> 00:24:31,080
it fell over caught
our Higgins boats and

491
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,915
as we came up from diving,

492
00:24:33,915 --> 00:24:38,310
we grabbed on the cargo
nets and that pulled us up,

493
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:40,260
so we climbed back
into our Higgins boat.

494
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:41,580
But from that time on,

495
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:45,030
my knees were terrible and I
couldn't perform my duties.

496
00:24:45,030 --> 00:24:48,975
So they sent me to a hospital
for surgery on my knees,

497
00:24:48,975 --> 00:24:52,860
and that was in New Caledonia.

498
00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:56,700
[LAUGHTER] And then from there,

499
00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:00,855
they sent us to New Zealand

500
00:25:00,855 --> 00:25:04,605
and for more rehabilitation
and in reassignment.

501
00:25:04,605 --> 00:25:06,390
And then the next trip we were

502
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:08,535
supposed to make was
back to Bougainville.

503
00:25:08,535 --> 00:25:10,170
But my knees were so bad

504
00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:14,265
that I had to go back to the
hospital for more surgery.

505
00:25:14,265 --> 00:25:18,105
>> So before you ended
up in New Zealand,

506
00:25:18,105 --> 00:25:21,150
what was the hospital
like in New Caledonia?

507
00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:22,290
>> They were all cargo.

508
00:25:22,290 --> 00:25:24,645
They were Quonset huts

509
00:25:24,645 --> 00:25:27,645
all joined together
and welded together.

510
00:25:27,645 --> 00:25:33,855
And on the floor yeah
were big boards,

511
00:25:33,855 --> 00:25:35,220
what they were cracked.

512
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:37,320
They weren't always
tight together.

513
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,700
And when

514
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:40,480
different

515
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,110
sailors

516
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:50,520
would come in and

517
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,580
different Marines because
it was a naval hospital.

518
00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:54,930
Rangers didn't
have any hospital.

519
00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:56,460
It was all naval hospital.

520
00:25:56,460 --> 00:26:00,840
And they'd have to rig

521
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,900
the guys up depending on
how they were wounded.

522
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:08,625
Let's say you get
shot in the legs,

523
00:26:08,625 --> 00:26:12,300
they'd hang you, pull your
legs up and you're in a cast.

524
00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:14,325
When they'd make the cast out of

525
00:26:14,325 --> 00:26:16,575
plaster of Paris
or some whatever,

526
00:26:16,575 --> 00:26:18,600
it's almost like a concrete.

527
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,480
Well, they'd put in
maggots and they

528
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,585
would eat the dead
skin in there.

529
00:26:24,585 --> 00:26:26,760
And as the maggots would
come out of the cast,

530
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,950
they'd fall on the beds

531
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:30,810
and so we'd knock
them on the floor,

532
00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:32,940
knock them on the wood,
and with our crutches,

533
00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:35,770
[NOISE] we'd be able to
kill all the maggots.

534
00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:39,950
So it was very rugged times.

535
00:26:39,950 --> 00:26:42,635
>> Do you remember
food from that time?

536
00:26:42,635 --> 00:26:43,580
>> I beg your pardon.

537
00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:44,630
>> Do you remember the food?

538
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:45,895
Do you remember what you ate?

539
00:26:45,895 --> 00:26:47,235
>> What do we eat?

540
00:26:47,235 --> 00:26:47,790
>> Yeah.

541
00:26:47,790 --> 00:26:52,515
>> Whatever they brought
us. It wasn't great,

542
00:26:52,515 --> 00:26:56,535
but it was all right.

543
00:26:56,535 --> 00:26:59,460
We survived much better
than being on the islands,

544
00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:01,020
in the Guadalcanal,

545
00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:02,955
trying to get something to eat.

546
00:27:02,955 --> 00:27:05,130
In the Guadalcanal, we'd

547
00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:07,125
get powdered eggs for breakfast.

548
00:27:07,125 --> 00:27:10,745
For lunch, they'd
get the same eggs

549
00:27:10,745 --> 00:27:14,970
with powdered tomatoes.

550
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:17,220
And then the dinner we'd get

551
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:21,000
the same thing only they'd
put in Vienna sausage.

552
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,220
And nobody ate it, so
they'd throw that away.

553
00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,380
Next morning, you
get powdered eggs.

554
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:27,240
[LAUGHTER] Same thing.

555
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,100
That's why we lost
so much weight

556
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:31,065
because we couldn't get
all the food we needed.

557
00:27:31,065 --> 00:27:32,580
The ships couldn't last that

558
00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:36,400
long in the little
harbors that they had.

559
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:40,860
>> So during this time,

560
00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:42,390
when you were at
the hospital and

561
00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:44,430
then possibly when you
were in New Zealand,

562
00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:46,950
did you get to communicate
with your family at all?

563
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:49,680
Did you send or
receive any letters?

564
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,825
>> Yes. Once upon a time,

565
00:27:51,825 --> 00:27:56,175
I got about 25 letters from
my girlfriend at the time.

566
00:27:56,175 --> 00:27:57,840
She wrote every day.

567
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,540
And of course, on
the Guadalcanal,

568
00:28:00,540 --> 00:28:03,030
we didn't get any
of the mail at all.

569
00:28:03,030 --> 00:28:06,525
But in New Zealand, I got
these 20 some letters.

570
00:28:06,525 --> 00:28:09,945
And of course,
everybody in my squad,

571
00:28:09,945 --> 00:28:11,430
they'd all pick up my letters

572
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:13,260
because when they're
delivering them,

573
00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:16,050
the semi would always
stand on a box of

574
00:28:16,050 --> 00:28:17,400
ammunition or something and call

575
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,455
your name out and just
throw the letter.

576
00:28:19,455 --> 00:28:23,055
So every time Cohn.

577
00:28:23,055 --> 00:28:25,410
So the squad would
pick up my letters,

578
00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:27,360
and of course, they'd
start reading them.

579
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,280
And they'd always come and say,

580
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,705
Harry, you know what?

581
00:28:30,705 --> 00:28:31,950
You got to marry this girl.

582
00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:34,440
[LAUGHTER] She loves you.

583
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,360
I said thank you for
reading my mail.

584
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:41,220
[LAUGHTER] So days like
that make it worthwhile.

585
00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:44,145
The comradery was there.

586
00:28:44,145 --> 00:28:47,385
We were all one.

587
00:28:47,385 --> 00:28:51,900
>> Do you remember any of
your comrades in particular?

588
00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:53,745
>> Did they do what?

589
00:28:53,745 --> 00:28:55,410
>> Did you keep in touch?

590
00:28:55,410 --> 00:29:00,000
>> No. After Bougainville,

591
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,310
I think most everybody
that I knew was dead.

592
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:05,775
Nobody that I contacted.

593
00:29:05,775 --> 00:29:12,450
>> So why was this Battle of
Bougainville so important?

594
00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:15,015
Why were they training
you to go back there?

595
00:29:15,015 --> 00:29:18,120
>> Because that's the
way they planned it.

596
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,640
MacArthur and Nimitz, I guess,

597
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,710
MacArthur was going to go into

598
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:24,390
New Guinea and then
they were going

599
00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:25,905
to go up to the Philippines

600
00:29:25,905 --> 00:29:28,080
and then they were
going to go into Japan.

601
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,960
And the Navy, because
of the ships,

602
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,690
they would go up on the islands.

603
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:37,320
The Army went one way and the
Marines went the other way.

604
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,735
That's why we were
in all the islands

605
00:29:39,735 --> 00:29:42,790
because we needed the airfields.

606
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,820
>> Can you describe
what the fighting

607
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:49,740
was like in Bougainville?

608
00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:50,520
>> The what is what?

609
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,620
>> Fighting. What was it like to

610
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:56,440
fight there? What
was the battle like?

611
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,695
>> What can I tell
you about that?

612
00:30:01,695 --> 00:30:05,295
Your mind goes blank
after a while,

613
00:30:05,295 --> 00:30:07,170
and you know what
you have to do,

614
00:30:07,170 --> 00:30:08,715
what you were trained to do,

615
00:30:08,715 --> 00:30:13,860
and you do what you have to.

616
00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:18,960
It's very difficult
to talk about it.

617
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:25,095
>> And your legs have
been injured previously.

618
00:30:25,095 --> 00:30:29,430
Did that play a role in how
the battle went for you?

619
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:32,445
>> Well, you know what
you're supposed to do.

620
00:30:32,445 --> 00:30:35,460
And you know the men
or your comrades on

621
00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:37,230
the left are going to do what

622
00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:39,465
they have to do and
those on your right.

623
00:30:39,465 --> 00:30:42,600
And that's why in
the Marine Corps,

624
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,015
we have that Semper
Fidelis, always faithful.

625
00:30:45,015 --> 00:30:46,605
You know what you have to do

626
00:30:46,605 --> 00:30:48,270
and you know that anybody else

627
00:30:48,270 --> 00:30:49,800
on the other right or left of

628
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,570
you they'll do what
they have to do.

629
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:56,745
>> So after that,

630
00:30:56,745 --> 00:31:00,150
you ended up going
back to New Caledonia.

631
00:31:00,150 --> 00:31:03,825
So when was that exactly?

632
00:31:03,825 --> 00:31:06,675
>> What is what exactly?

633
00:31:06,675 --> 00:31:08,370
>> When did you end
up going back to

634
00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:10,785
New Caledonia right
after the battle?

635
00:31:10,785 --> 00:31:15,580
>> Yeah. Then I went
there for more surgery.

636
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:21,300
>> Was it successful,
the surgery?

637
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:23,670
>> Well, they told me
that I was going to have

638
00:31:23,670 --> 00:31:25,530
maybe three other
operations rest of

639
00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:31,260
my life. They didn't know.

640
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:34,480
They do what they have
to do at the time.

641
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,340
But they said I had
to have probably

642
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:41,590
at least three other
surgeries rest of my life.

643
00:31:46,910 --> 00:31:50,505
Before I forget, I
have to tell you this.

644
00:31:50,505 --> 00:31:53,130
I was in a hospital
ship coming back

645
00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:55,380
after they couldn't
do much more for me

646
00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:57,270
and they said you
can't stay over here

647
00:31:57,270 --> 00:31:59,835
much longer because
you can't help us.

648
00:31:59,835 --> 00:32:01,965
I came back on a hospital ship

649
00:32:01,965 --> 00:32:05,220
and about a half hour

650
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:08,235
before we came into
the California coast,

651
00:32:08,235 --> 00:32:09,990
the captain made
an announcement.

652
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:11,685
He said in about half an hour,

653
00:32:11,685 --> 00:32:14,055
we're going to go under
the Golden Gate Bridge.

654
00:32:14,055 --> 00:32:15,960
Well, as soon as
that word went out,

655
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,060
every crutch and every cane

656
00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:23,105
and anything that they
could hobble went topside.

657
00:32:23,105 --> 00:32:24,380
And when we went under

658
00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:28,715
the Golden Gate Bridge
everybody was quiet.

659
00:32:28,715 --> 00:32:30,350
The only thing that
you could hear

660
00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:32,335
with just the motors
running in the ship.

661
00:32:32,335 --> 00:32:34,800
And I looked up and
I said thank you,

662
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,660
Father, for bringing us home.

663
00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:39,225
I think to this day,

664
00:32:39,225 --> 00:32:42,840
that's the most memorable
thing I have in my life.

665
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,370
[NOISE] I forgot my coffee.

666
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:49,560
>> Go ahead. Take a drink

667
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,360
a little break to
drink some coffee.

668
00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:01,980
>> Very good. [NOISE].

669
00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:04,830
>> All these beautiful
trees are contributing

670
00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:09,010
to a very intense
allergy season.

671
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:18,350
So you sailed under the Golden
New Bridge and this was

672
00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:21,965
your return home to
the United States.

673
00:33:21,965 --> 00:33:25,800
How did you feel about
leaving the Pacific?

674
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:32,335
>> Well, I was glad to leave.

675
00:33:32,335 --> 00:33:36,950
We zig zagged all the
way back to the States.

676
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:42,850
And then, first place we landed,

677
00:33:43,210 --> 00:33:46,685
they told us what
hospital we're going to.

678
00:33:46,685 --> 00:33:51,050
And what floor it would be on

679
00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:55,820
and different little
things like that.

680
00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:58,445
So anyhow, when we landed,

681
00:33:58,445 --> 00:34:00,800
they put us in ambulances.

682
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,250
Hospital was in
Oakland, California.

683
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:08,540
And our beds were
selected for us.

684
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:14,450
And so when we got
there, I went to my bed.

685
00:34:14,450 --> 00:34:18,080
We used to call it the sack.

686
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,105
And on there, there was a book

687
00:34:20,105 --> 00:34:21,770
and I thought, this is nice.

688
00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:23,450
The Navy is giving us books.

689
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:26,270
And I picked the
thing up and it said,

690
00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:29,480
The Science of Mind
by Ernest Holmes.

691
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,480
Are you familiar with these?

692
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:35,275
And I said, I've never

693
00:34:35,275 --> 00:34:37,960
seen this book or heard of,
but I wonder what it is.

694
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,640
So I started to
reading it. Well,

695
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,360
it's one of these
esoteric type of books.

696
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,385
And I said, this is fabulous.

697
00:34:46,385 --> 00:34:47,750
Next to the Bible, I think

698
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:49,685
it's the best book
I've ever read.

699
00:34:49,685 --> 00:34:54,830
And unfortunately, we were
only there about two weeks,

700
00:34:54,830 --> 00:34:58,370
and it's a real thick
book like this.

701
00:34:58,370 --> 00:35:01,580
And they said, please leave

702
00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:03,470
all your books and
all the materials

703
00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:04,940
for the next group
that's coming through,

704
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:06,500
the next group of veterans.

705
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:08,960
And then I went to
the hospital in

706
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,405
San Diego for more
surgery down there,

707
00:35:11,405 --> 00:35:16,580
but then I didn't know
anything about it,

708
00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:19,040
until years later when

709
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,275
we found out that the
man who wrote the book,

710
00:35:21,275 --> 00:35:24,680
I could have heard him
talk in California,

711
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,540
had I only known him, but

712
00:35:26,540 --> 00:35:28,355
nobody knew anything
about Ernest Holmes.

713
00:35:28,355 --> 00:35:34,110
So he created The Science of
Mind as a form of religion.

714
00:35:34,110 --> 00:35:36,505
Spiritual approach, I guess,

715
00:35:36,505 --> 00:35:38,770
I should say, but that

716
00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:41,305
was fabulous to have
a book like that.

717
00:35:41,305 --> 00:35:43,820
Had all the bads.

718
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:47,810
So life is wonderful.

719
00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:51,275
It just keeps
growing and growing.

720
00:35:51,275 --> 00:35:55,940
>> So was there a difference in

721
00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:57,965
the medical treatment between

722
00:35:57,965 --> 00:36:02,180
the new Caledonia
field hospital?

723
00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:04,010
>> In the field
hospital, they only

724
00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:06,065
do first class things.

725
00:36:06,065 --> 00:36:08,135
When I say first class,

726
00:36:08,135 --> 00:36:10,115
they do that in a hurry.

727
00:36:10,115 --> 00:36:12,185
They can't do a
real fine surgery.

728
00:36:12,185 --> 00:36:14,000
My knees required more type

729
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,995
of surgery than they could do in

730
00:36:15,995 --> 00:36:18,860
the field because they

731
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:20,810
had to cover the wounds
and sew them up,

732
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:22,130
and things like that.

733
00:36:22,130 --> 00:36:24,680
Remove the shrapnel
and different things

734
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,010
to stop the bleeding
and that sort of thing.

735
00:36:29,470 --> 00:36:31,775
So they were different,

736
00:36:31,775 --> 00:36:35,975
but there was a run off
on medical program.

737
00:36:35,975 --> 00:36:39,630
So I was in five
hospitals in California.

738
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:44,390
>> And do you remember,
they did they give

739
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:49,110
you medication for pain?

740
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:52,160
>> Pills take you mean?

741
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,190
Yes. Otherwise, you wouldn't
be sleeping too well.

742
00:36:58,190 --> 00:37:01,475
Yes. They gave you whatever
they thought you needed.

743
00:37:01,475 --> 00:37:03,810
Yeah. They were very good.

744
00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:08,435
>> So after this time that
you spent in California,

745
00:37:08,435 --> 00:37:10,890
where did you go next?

746
00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:17,450
>> In the meantime, I
was doing guard duty at

747
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:20,210
different places because they

748
00:37:20,210 --> 00:37:22,100
wanted me to walk around
and do the [inaudible].

749
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,305
Then he thought may
be great if I went to

750
00:37:24,305 --> 00:37:27,680
OCS because of my experience

751
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,140
in Guadalcanal in
different places.

752
00:37:30,140 --> 00:37:32,630
And so I said, no.

753
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:33,920
I said, I don't think
I'm going to make

754
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,345
it because my knees
are too weak.

755
00:37:35,345 --> 00:37:39,530
No, you're okay. You're mobile.

756
00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:45,920
So I went to OCS in
Quantico and we had to

757
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,200
learn to poop and snoop and

758
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,280
do different things like
that to become an officer.

759
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,710
And my legs just
gave out completely.

760
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:57,995
So when I went to the
hospital there in Quantico,

761
00:37:57,995 --> 00:37:59,720
the doctor said, son,

762
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:01,250
you should have been
out of this hospital

763
00:38:01,250 --> 00:38:02,510
a year-and-a-half ago.

764
00:38:02,510 --> 00:38:04,505
What are you doing
walking around here?

765
00:38:04,505 --> 00:38:06,785
So they discharged me.

766
00:38:06,785 --> 00:38:10,010
>> So just going back to

767
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:13,085
the trip from
California to Virginia,

768
00:38:13,085 --> 00:38:14,525
how did you get
across the State?

769
00:38:14,525 --> 00:38:17,870
>> Railroad. That's all
they had in those days.

770
00:38:17,870 --> 00:38:20,250
Well, and they had airplanes.

771
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,095
They had troop trains.

772
00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,020
So many soldiers and

773
00:38:29,020 --> 00:38:30,130
sailors and marines would be

774
00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:31,330
transferred different places.

775
00:38:31,330 --> 00:38:35,530
So they go so far and
then so many would leave

776
00:38:35,530 --> 00:38:38,300
and then we ended up from

777
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:41,675
California to
Quantico, Virginia.

778
00:38:41,675 --> 00:38:44,420
>> Do you remember stopping
anywhere along the way?

779
00:38:44,420 --> 00:38:48,695
>> Only need to discharge
passengers. No.

780
00:38:48,695 --> 00:38:51,455
>> And when you
were in Quantico,

781
00:38:51,455 --> 00:38:53,510
what were your duties?

782
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:55,715
You were talking about some
of the specific training.

783
00:38:55,715 --> 00:38:58,595
>> We were learning to
become officers, yeah.

784
00:38:58,595 --> 00:39:02,180
Drills and rifle procedures

785
00:39:02,180 --> 00:39:06,275
and ideas of what you
are going to face.

786
00:39:06,275 --> 00:39:08,510
Now, I'm very happy that

787
00:39:08,510 --> 00:39:10,220
was discharged
because I would have

788
00:39:10,220 --> 00:39:14,730
gone to Korea as an
officer in those days.

789
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:19,670
>> So then what were
your memories at

790
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:23,795
the end of the war when the
bombs were dropped in Japan?

791
00:39:23,795 --> 00:39:26,510
>> I thought that was wonderful.

792
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:29,810
Otherwise, they
predict a million men

793
00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:31,730
were going to be killed
going into Japan.

794
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:38,060
So you're sorry that
individuals had to be killed,

795
00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:42,335
but the Japanese were not

796
00:39:42,335 --> 00:39:46,610
famous for protecting
prisoners at all.

797
00:39:46,610 --> 00:39:49,625
They were very cruel,
almost wicked,

798
00:39:49,625 --> 00:39:51,410
I would say, from what we have

799
00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:54,750
heard about the fellows
who were prisoners.

800
00:39:56,110 --> 00:40:00,305
So I was very happy
that it was all over.>>

801
00:40:00,305 --> 00:40:03,020
Do you remember where you
were when you learned

802
00:40:03,020 --> 00:40:06,125
about the bombs that
were dropped on Japan?

803
00:40:06,125 --> 00:40:08,300
>> The bombs on Japan?

804
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:11,150
>> The atomic bombs. Do you
remember where you were?

805
00:40:11,150 --> 00:40:15,720
>> I guess I was in the
Pacific at the time.

806
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,130
>> Well, you were in
the Pacific when they

807
00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:20,855
were dropping the initial bombs,

808
00:40:20,855 --> 00:40:22,415
but the end of the war,

809
00:40:22,415 --> 00:40:23,810
do you remember that moment?

810
00:40:23,810 --> 00:40:26,520
>> Oh, the end of
the war completely.

811
00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:30,605
No, I don't remember
where I was.

812
00:40:30,605 --> 00:40:34,820
I really don't, but I must
have been very happy,

813
00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:38,210
but I don't remember
exactly where I was.

814
00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:40,070
>> So you were discharged in

815
00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:42,710
August of 1945, is that right?

816
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:42,900
>> Yes.

817
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:44,915
>> August of 1945?

818
00:40:44,915 --> 00:40:49,145
And can you tell me
about meeting your wife?

819
00:40:49,145 --> 00:40:52,340
Where did you go right
after you were discharged?

820
00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:54,455
>> I went to Chicago

821
00:40:54,455 --> 00:41:04,950
and we made arrangements
to get married in Chicago.

822
00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:09,120
And we were married in Chicago.

823
00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:14,405
>> How did you meet her?

824
00:41:14,405 --> 00:41:17,900
>> I met her at this
boarding house way back

825
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:22,385
in '49, I guess it was.

826
00:41:22,385 --> 00:41:23,480
>> In '39?

827
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:24,590
>> '39.

828
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:25,715
>> This is the same girlfriend.

829
00:41:25,715 --> 00:41:27,560
>> Yeah. Wrote me
all these letters.

830
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,200
Absolutely. Yeah.

831
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,945
>> And what was her name?

832
00:41:32,945 --> 00:41:34,850
>> Marjorie.

833
00:41:34,850 --> 00:41:39,965
>> And did you write back
to her during the war too?

834
00:41:39,965 --> 00:41:41,585
Did you write
letters back to her?

835
00:41:41,585 --> 00:41:43,505
>> Unfortunately, I didn't.

836
00:41:43,505 --> 00:41:47,060
And she told me about that too.

837
00:41:47,060 --> 00:41:49,880
She said, I dated a couple
of guys while you were gone.

838
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,455
I said, oh.

839
00:41:51,455 --> 00:41:52,820
Well, you didn't
write to me that

840
00:41:52,820 --> 00:41:53,945
much. I didn't know
where you were.

841
00:41:53,945 --> 00:41:56,600
I said, well, they tore up

842
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:57,770
all our letters and they

843
00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:59,750
crossed everything
out and just said,

844
00:41:59,750 --> 00:42:01,040
and we were so busy.

845
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,410
I said, I didn't have
time to really write.

846
00:42:03,410 --> 00:42:05,780
I said, I know I should
have, but I didn't,

847
00:42:05,780 --> 00:42:11,430
but anyhow, she was
faithful and wonderful.

848
00:42:12,580 --> 00:42:15,395
>> Did she spend the
war in Wisconsin?

849
00:42:15,395 --> 00:42:19,140
>> Yes. She rolled bandages.

850
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,930
At the time, she was working for

851
00:42:28,930 --> 00:42:32,795
the Cudahy packing company

852
00:42:32,795 --> 00:42:37,310
and she was working
in the main office,

853
00:42:37,310 --> 00:42:40,650
the secretary to the
president, she was.

854
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,990
So she was in Milwaukee
all the time.

855
00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:53,810
>> So you got married in
September in Chicago?

856
00:42:53,810 --> 00:42:55,355
Who came to your wedding?

857
00:42:55,355 --> 00:42:58,070
>> We only had 12 people.

858
00:42:58,070 --> 00:43:00,755
My mother, my father,

859
00:43:00,755 --> 00:43:09,970
her mother, and just friends
from Chicago, I guess.

860
00:43:09,970 --> 00:43:15,680
That's it. It was just
12 of us, counting us.

861
00:43:17,710 --> 00:43:21,290
>> So then was it very

862
00:43:21,290 --> 00:43:22,820
shortly after your marriage

863
00:43:22,820 --> 00:43:24,800
that you were
diagnosed with ATV.

864
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,210
>> After about three months.

865
00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:30,280
So she waited two-and-a-half
years for me.

866
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,135
And she'd have to take
[inaudible], a street car,

867
00:43:34,135 --> 00:43:36,085
and a bus to get
to the hospital,

868
00:43:36,085 --> 00:43:40,760
and she'd come three times
a week, four times a week.

869
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:44,675
>> And what was
that hospital like?

870
00:43:44,675 --> 00:43:48,200
>> It was a VA hospital,
veterans hospital.

871
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,510
Just like every other hospital

872
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:52,455
that you've ever been into.

873
00:43:52,455 --> 00:43:59,780
Although there were more
paraplegics and quadriplegics.

874
00:44:03,310 --> 00:44:06,320
Well, let's see.
What can I tell you?

875
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,905
A lot of jungle rot on

876
00:44:09,905 --> 00:44:14,060
the people and everything
was like purple.

877
00:44:14,060 --> 00:44:17,120
Every time you passed
this one section,

878
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,620
they were getting rid of all of

879
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:21,305
the purple bandages and so on.

880
00:44:21,305 --> 00:44:24,875
And I had to go
there of something.

881
00:44:24,875 --> 00:44:29,330
I think my tongue
hurt because one

882
00:44:29,330 --> 00:44:31,010
of the fellows that I

883
00:44:31,010 --> 00:44:33,215
was close to had
cancer of the tongue.

884
00:44:33,215 --> 00:44:35,600
Naturally, you look
at him and you

885
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,015
can pick up cancer too.

886
00:44:38,015 --> 00:44:39,950
And I thought, my
tongue is sore.

887
00:44:39,950 --> 00:44:41,270
Maybe there's something wrong.

888
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:43,820
So I applied to go to

889
00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:46,910
this place where all the
wounded people were.

890
00:44:46,910 --> 00:44:49,700
I saw all these bandages.

891
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:52,700
And I noticed that doctor
was using one figure.

892
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:55,340
She said, let's say we'll
do that and we'll do this

893
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:56,630
here and we'll do that over

894
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:58,610
here and we'll put
them over here.

895
00:44:58,610 --> 00:45:01,830
And all of a sudden,
my tongue got better.

896
00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:07,040
[LAUGHTER] I didn't want
any of those purple hand,

897
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,540
fingers going in my tongue,

898
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:11,400
so I get up and walked out.

899
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,120
But they were wonderful.

900
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,860
All the doctors were marvelous.

901
00:45:17,350 --> 00:45:21,875
One thing I would
like to explain,

902
00:45:21,875 --> 00:45:24,725
these poor guys coming
back from Europe,

903
00:45:24,725 --> 00:45:28,445
from Afghanistan and Middle
East and over there.

904
00:45:28,445 --> 00:45:34,865
At nighttime, in
the VA hospitals,

905
00:45:34,865 --> 00:45:36,800
we'd get out of
our beds and go to

906
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,310
the Johns and we'd sit
there and talk to each

907
00:45:40,310 --> 00:45:45,640
other and maybe three or four

908
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,170
of us would sit there
for a while and then

909
00:45:47,170 --> 00:45:48,790
maybe three or four other guys

910
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:49,930
would come in like 1 o'clock,

911
00:45:49,930 --> 00:45:52,195
2 o'clock in the morning, they
couldn't sleep and so on.

912
00:45:52,195 --> 00:45:54,055
And then we talked about
what happened to you?

913
00:45:54,055 --> 00:45:56,210
Where were you and
what was life?

914
00:45:56,210 --> 00:45:57,620
What you're going to do
when you're finished?

915
00:45:57,620 --> 00:46:00,420
And I remember this one fellow.

916
00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:03,065
I think he was
from West Virginia

917
00:46:03,065 --> 00:46:04,730
and he worked in the coal mines.

918
00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:06,200
And he said, you know, guys?

919
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,065
He said, I am never going down
one of those mines again.

920
00:46:10,065 --> 00:46:12,610
And we asked him, why would
you not go down there?

921
00:46:12,610 --> 00:46:13,720
And he explained to us

922
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,590
all the problems that they
have with the mines and so on.

923
00:46:16,590 --> 00:46:18,740
And he said, that's
not for me anymore.

924
00:46:18,740 --> 00:46:20,060
No after being in service

925
00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:22,700
and hearing what some
of you guys are doing.

926
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:25,205
He said, I'm never
going to go back there.

927
00:46:25,205 --> 00:46:28,760
And then some of
the other fellows,

928
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,530
the black fellows there,

929
00:46:30,530 --> 00:46:31,955
they would talk about
the trouble they

930
00:46:31,955 --> 00:46:36,050
had with the white
police in the South.

931
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:38,030
And this one fellow told about,

932
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:40,235
he asked his wife to come down.

933
00:46:40,235 --> 00:46:42,710
And when she got off the train,

934
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:44,900
he went up and kissed
her and all of a sudden,

935
00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:46,730
the police started banging in on

936
00:46:46,730 --> 00:46:48,965
the back and hitting
him on the head.

937
00:46:48,965 --> 00:46:50,450
You're not supposed to kiss

938
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:52,745
a white woman in a
railroad station.

939
00:46:52,745 --> 00:46:54,020
Finally, the MPs were

940
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:55,730
there and they dragged
the police off.

941
00:46:55,730 --> 00:46:59,270
And his wife was quite white.

942
00:46:59,270 --> 00:47:01,475
That was the problem.

943
00:47:01,475 --> 00:47:03,995
Then we hear stories like this,

944
00:47:03,995 --> 00:47:05,870
what happened to some
of the Black fellows

945
00:47:05,870 --> 00:47:09,515
and you realize and
you look at them,

946
00:47:09,515 --> 00:47:11,300
and they're bleeding in
the same way you are,

947
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:12,860
their hearts are in
the same way and

948
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:14,840
their bloods the same color and

949
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,430
they have the same feelings

950
00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:19,415
and they go to the same
churches and all this.

951
00:47:19,415 --> 00:47:23,690
So maybe that's what some of

952
00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:28,340
these fellows should get
together and talk what they did,

953
00:47:28,340 --> 00:47:29,360
that would help them because

954
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,415
the psychiatrists
aren't helping them.

955
00:47:31,415 --> 00:47:32,870
And it would seem to me

956
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:35,435
that if they could get
together and just talk,

957
00:47:35,435 --> 00:47:37,880
this has happened to me and
this is where it hurts,

958
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,405
and this is why I
only have one leg.

959
00:47:41,405 --> 00:47:43,370
Of course, the guys are ahed,

960
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:44,555
they don't talk at all,

961
00:47:44,555 --> 00:47:46,130
so they don't come
and talk to you.

962
00:47:46,130 --> 00:47:47,570
But I think that would help them

963
00:47:47,570 --> 00:47:50,015
more than just talking
to a psychiatrist.

964
00:47:50,015 --> 00:47:52,790
Just like I'm talking to
you and you and I were

965
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:56,340
in the same truck that got
blown up or something.

966
00:47:57,070 --> 00:47:59,450
Anyhow, I think that

967
00:47:59,450 --> 00:48:01,340
helped tremendously
in the hospital.

968
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:02,630
>> So it helps you and

969
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:04,700
the other veterans
in the hospital?

970
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:05,255
>> Yes.

971
00:48:05,255 --> 00:48:07,250
>> And you had
mentioned that you

972
00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:11,300
also became a DJ for
the hospital radio.

973
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:14,315
What kinds of things did you
talk about on the radio?

974
00:48:14,315 --> 00:48:15,995
What was the radio like?

975
00:48:15,995 --> 00:48:18,050
>> We would interview
different people

976
00:48:18,050 --> 00:48:20,375
who came different celebrities.

977
00:48:20,375 --> 00:48:22,730
That was when Dean Martin
and Jerry Lewis were

978
00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:26,435
still partners and they
came and talked to them.

979
00:48:26,435 --> 00:48:29,790
Band leaders would come,

980
00:48:31,450 --> 00:48:33,515
Kay Star, a singer.

981
00:48:33,515 --> 00:48:37,625
She was a gal. We
interviewed her.

982
00:48:37,625 --> 00:48:41,255
So many people. Different
writers would come,

983
00:48:41,255 --> 00:48:43,490
newspaper men would come
and we'd talk to them,

984
00:48:43,490 --> 00:48:44,915
ask them what they're doing,

985
00:48:44,915 --> 00:48:47,330
where they're going
and so on, like that.

986
00:48:47,330 --> 00:48:54,455
And then we'd play records
that the WPA writers created.

987
00:48:54,455 --> 00:48:58,025
Different people
from Hollywood would

988
00:48:58,025 --> 00:49:00,020
record different songs and

989
00:49:00,020 --> 00:49:02,180
welcome the fellows back home,

990
00:49:02,180 --> 00:49:03,770
we'd play that to them.

991
00:49:03,770 --> 00:49:05,900
And then somebody believed

992
00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:09,305
that if you had something
under your pillow,

993
00:49:09,305 --> 00:49:11,795
like a little microphone,

994
00:49:11,795 --> 00:49:14,585
or a receiver,

995
00:49:14,585 --> 00:49:17,765
that you can learn a language.

996
00:49:17,765 --> 00:49:21,860
And so we put French on
and we put Italian on

997
00:49:21,860 --> 00:49:26,045
or whatever language
we had, we play those.

998
00:49:26,045 --> 00:49:28,970
But I never remember
anybody ever learning to

999
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:30,650
speak a language because they've

1000
00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:32,840
been listening to these
things under their pillow.

1001
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,110
And then they had
physical therapy.

1002
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,920
They give us parachutes
and they would show

1003
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,500
us how to pull different strands

1004
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:47,240
out and we can make napkins,

1005
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:49,715
make table cloths out
of the parachutes.

1006
00:49:49,715 --> 00:49:54,635
And plastic, we made
pianos out of plastic,

1007
00:49:54,635 --> 00:49:59,030
teeny pianos and we make
purses and wallets,

1008
00:49:59,030 --> 00:50:00,620
out of leather, and they teach

1009
00:50:00,620 --> 00:50:02,375
you how to sew it
and all that thing.

1010
00:50:02,375 --> 00:50:04,430
So the hospitals were very

1011
00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:07,100
good for us for rehabilitation.

1012
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:09,200
What did you do with those
things when you made them?

1013
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,090
Did you keep them or
did you sell them?

1014
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,630
In fact, you can see a
great big sergeant knitting

1015
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:21,070
[LAUGHTER] and they made little
booties and they'd make,

1016
00:50:21,070 --> 00:50:22,610
I don't know,

1017
00:50:22,610 --> 00:50:27,005
but they make little pillows,
I guess, and things.

1018
00:50:27,005 --> 00:50:30,230
And here they are
knitting [LAUGHTER].

1019
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:31,970
I never learned to knit right.

1020
00:50:31,970 --> 00:50:35,645
I made a couple of wallets
and some things like that.

1021
00:50:35,645 --> 00:50:37,745
Well, you give them to people

1022
00:50:37,745 --> 00:50:41,660
because it didn't cost us
anything for the material.

1023
00:50:41,660 --> 00:50:43,520
It all came from the VA.

1024
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,980
And some things
that were so nice

1025
00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:51,050
so they put them in the
little place where they sold,

1026
00:50:51,050 --> 00:50:57,215
coffee and food and

1027
00:50:57,215 --> 00:50:59,705
things like that for
visitors and they buy them,

1028
00:50:59,705 --> 00:51:03,230
they buy these things,
wallets and purses.

1029
00:51:03,230 --> 00:51:13,130
>> So while you

1030
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:14,330
were in the hospital,

1031
00:51:14,330 --> 00:51:17,690
what were your hopes and
dreams for the future?

1032
00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:20,345
What were you thinking about
that you wanted to do next?

1033
00:51:20,345 --> 00:51:24,170
>> One nice thing. The
University of Wisconsin

1034
00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:26,885
was working with the Army.

1035
00:51:26,885 --> 00:51:29,495
I guess it was the army.

1036
00:51:29,495 --> 00:51:34,970
And they would give
courses and I took

1037
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:38,450
a whole year of
English literature

1038
00:51:38,450 --> 00:51:40,265
from the University
of Wisconsin.

1039
00:51:40,265 --> 00:51:42,185
From [inaudible] I
think it was called,

1040
00:51:42,185 --> 00:51:44,840
United States Armed forces,
something or the other.

1041
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:45,980
>> While you were
in the hospital?

1042
00:51:45,980 --> 00:51:48,785
>> While in the hospital.
They come right to my bed.

1043
00:51:48,785 --> 00:51:52,385
>> This was the University
of Wisconsin or

1044
00:51:52,385 --> 00:51:53,930
University of Chicago?

1045
00:51:53,930 --> 00:51:57,690
>> That was from the
University of Wisconsin.

1046
00:51:58,150 --> 00:52:01,385
>> And so when you
when you did get out,

1047
00:52:01,385 --> 00:52:03,470
you went back to complete

1048
00:52:03,470 --> 00:52:05,690
your undergraduate
degree, where?

1049
00:52:05,690 --> 00:52:06,920
>> At Northwestern.

1050
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,480
>> And how did

1051
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,280
you obtain your GI Bill
benefits to do that?

1052
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,530
How did you learn
about the GI Bill?

1053
00:52:15,530 --> 00:52:17,600
>> I just applied for it.

1054
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,380
And when I was
discharging Quantico,

1055
00:52:21,380 --> 00:52:24,290
I think I was given
a 20% disability

1056
00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:27,350
right then when I was discharged
from the from Quantico.

1057
00:52:27,350 --> 00:52:31,460
So I guess I was already
registered with the VA

1058
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:39,515
and so I just applied
for it and away I went.

1059
00:52:39,515 --> 00:52:43,670
>> And did they give you and

1060
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:47,450
your wife housing
assistance as well?

1061
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:49,890
>> They paid for everything.

1062
00:52:51,250 --> 00:52:53,900
We didn't get pensions
in those days.

1063
00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:55,520
We got compensation because

1064
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,470
in compensation,
they can cut it.

1065
00:52:57,470 --> 00:52:59,945
Pension, I guess, is sacred.

1066
00:52:59,945 --> 00:53:01,715
And that was from World War I.

1067
00:53:01,715 --> 00:53:03,230
Those fellows got pensions.

1068
00:53:03,230 --> 00:53:05,180
So we only got compensation.

1069
00:53:05,180 --> 00:53:06,770
Well, I was in the hospital,

1070
00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:11,040
I was 100% disabled and then
they kept cutting it back.

1071
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,140
But I guess they
sent the bills to

1072
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:18,110
Northwestern and because
I never pay the thing.

1073
00:53:18,110 --> 00:53:21,215
And I go to the bookstore
and just sign and

1074
00:53:21,215 --> 00:53:25,940
chit and get my books and
everything, all paid for it.

1075
00:53:25,940 --> 00:53:27,695
>> What did you study?

1076
00:53:27,695 --> 00:53:35,820
>> Communications. So speech
pathology and audiology.

1077
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:39,120
>> And where did you live while

1078
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,100
you were attending school?

1079
00:53:41,100 --> 00:53:43,580
>> I lived with

1080
00:53:43,580 --> 00:53:48,075
my wife in an apartment
building. We had an apartment.

1081
00:53:48,075 --> 00:53:50,265
>> Was it close by campus?

1082
00:53:50,265 --> 00:53:52,320
>> Yeah. I took the L every

1083
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,660
day to to Evanson
because we were

1084
00:53:54,660 --> 00:53:56,340
living in Chicago right on

1085
00:53:56,340 --> 00:54:00,070
the lake front off
Lake Michigan.

1086
00:54:00,620 --> 00:54:04,020
>> And can you tell me about

1087
00:54:04,020 --> 00:54:07,230
your career after you graduated?

1088
00:54:07,230 --> 00:54:12,450
>> Well, let's see.
After I got my degree,

1089
00:54:12,450 --> 00:54:14,505
I went and got a
master's degree,

1090
00:54:14,505 --> 00:54:17,620
and then I taught
elementary school.

1091
00:54:21,260 --> 00:54:27,960
This one school I went
to the principal, said,

1092
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,390
Harry, you have to go
to the second grade

1093
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:35,010
because they're having trouble
with the teacher reading.

1094
00:54:35,010 --> 00:54:37,545
I said, okay,

1095
00:54:37,545 --> 00:54:39,945
I haven't done this before.

1096
00:54:39,945 --> 00:54:41,220
He said, well, you're
a professional.

1097
00:54:41,220 --> 00:54:43,440
You got your degree. He
said go do something.

1098
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,045
I said, okay,

1099
00:54:45,045 --> 00:54:48,540
so happened that she
talked this because she

1100
00:54:48,540 --> 00:54:52,110
had a legal lisp and of course,

1101
00:54:52,110 --> 00:54:53,610
the kids were trying to imitate

1102
00:54:53,610 --> 00:54:56,295
he's they weren't
learning to read.

1103
00:54:56,295 --> 00:54:57,570
So she and I had to have

1104
00:54:57,570 --> 00:54:59,490
a long talk and

1105
00:54:59,490 --> 00:55:02,620
I'm trying to help her
with her legal lisp.

1106
00:55:02,810 --> 00:55:05,730
So that was my first experience

1107
00:55:05,730 --> 00:55:07,830
of teaching in the
elementary schools.

1108
00:55:07,830 --> 00:55:10,260
That was fun.

1109
00:55:10,260 --> 00:55:14,050
And then high
school, same thing.

1110
00:55:14,570 --> 00:55:18,825
We try to communicate with
people who had difficulty.

1111
00:55:18,825 --> 00:55:20,895
Some had lingual.

1112
00:55:20,895 --> 00:55:23,235
Other would have
had a lateral lisp.

1113
00:55:23,235 --> 00:55:25,830
So we tried to help them.

1114
00:55:25,830 --> 00:55:31,530
>> And eventually, you
became a professor.

1115
00:55:31,530 --> 00:55:34,890
>> Yeah. I guess I
went from one to

1116
00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:36,705
elementary high
school to college

1117
00:55:36,705 --> 00:55:39,675
because they needed a
speech teacher in college.

1118
00:55:39,675 --> 00:55:41,670
And so I went up

1119
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:44,955
there and I taught English
as a second language.

1120
00:55:44,955 --> 00:55:48,270
And all my career in

1121
00:55:48,270 --> 00:55:49,875
phonics was so important

1122
00:55:49,875 --> 00:55:52,750
when you're teaching
foreign language.

1123
00:55:53,590 --> 00:55:57,410
How some don't do not
pronounce the ahs and

1124
00:55:57,410 --> 00:56:00,575
some can't pronounce
the ings and so on.

1125
00:56:00,575 --> 00:56:03,140
And I think we had like

1126
00:56:03,140 --> 00:56:08,535
72 foreign countries when
I was teaching in Chicago.

1127
00:56:08,535 --> 00:56:10,500
>> Altogether in the same class,

1128
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:11,775
people from all
different countries?

1129
00:56:11,775 --> 00:56:15,100
>> Yeah. They just mix
them all up. Sure.

1130
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:18,050
>> How long did you teach?

1131
00:56:18,050 --> 00:56:20,820
>> Forty some years.

1132
00:56:21,140 --> 00:56:23,700
>> And can you

1133
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:25,350
tell me a little bit
more about your family,

1134
00:56:25,350 --> 00:56:29,290
your children? Where
were they born?

1135
00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:35,880
>> My oldest daughter
she has her PhD.

1136
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,225
My youngest daughter
went here to school,

1137
00:56:39,225 --> 00:56:40,815
got her master's here,

1138
00:56:40,815 --> 00:56:45,075
and she worked in the
commodity market for 13 years.

1139
00:56:45,075 --> 00:56:50,220
I wish I could remember the
gentleman who is in charge of

1140
00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:53,190
the financing department because

1141
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:55,320
she liked him very much
and she worked for him.

1142
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,175
And I think he now he's
associated with the university,

1143
00:56:59,175 --> 00:57:01,470
but I can't remember
his name, really.

1144
00:57:01,470 --> 00:57:05,220
He has his own business
and he's doing very well.

1145
00:57:05,220 --> 00:57:08,775
Because Barbara worked
with him for a while.

1146
00:57:08,775 --> 00:57:11,140
And my son,

1147
00:57:11,930 --> 00:57:16,590
he went to University
of Michigan,

1148
00:57:16,590 --> 00:57:22,320
I think, and he majored
in fraternities and beer,

1149
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,360
I think that was his first year.

1150
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:25,995
And then we told him he can't

1151
00:57:25,995 --> 00:57:27,360
stay in college and do that.

1152
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,860
So we took him out of that
and sent him to University of

1153
00:57:31,860 --> 00:57:40,320
, where did he go?

1154
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,405
Some place down in Chicago.

1155
00:57:45,405 --> 00:57:47,985
And I can't remember
where it is now.

1156
00:57:47,985 --> 00:57:51,930
And then he got a job working in

1157
00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:59,055
a sporting goods store
learning to put boots on skis.

1158
00:57:59,055 --> 00:58:02,190
And then he went down to
visit his sister who happened

1159
00:58:02,190 --> 00:58:05,025
to be living in
Atlanta at the time,

1160
00:58:05,025 --> 00:58:06,990
and he got a job right away in

1161
00:58:06,990 --> 00:58:09,555
a sporting goods store
doing the same thing.

1162
00:58:09,555 --> 00:58:12,390
And then he went to a bank,

1163
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:14,655
I forget the name of the bank,

1164
00:58:14,655 --> 00:58:17,650
Nations Bank, I think
it was at the time.

1165
00:58:17,650 --> 00:58:21,170
And he worked in lockboxes.

1166
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:25,520
Now, a lock box is not
safety deposit box.

1167
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,680
That's a different story.

1168
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,695
And it's when you
send a check in,

1169
00:58:30,695 --> 00:58:36,105
say for corporations money

1170
00:58:36,105 --> 00:58:38,115
for some reason, you
send them a check.

1171
00:58:38,115 --> 00:58:40,440
That check goes to a lock box.

1172
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,735
And now once that's recorded,

1173
00:58:42,735 --> 00:58:45,090
they can use that
money to lend it to

1174
00:58:45,090 --> 00:58:47,070
other corporations or to

1175
00:58:47,070 --> 00:58:49,440
other businesses,
things like that.

1176
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,855
He learned to do that and then

1177
00:58:51,855 --> 00:58:54,825
he learned to sell to banks.

1178
00:58:54,825 --> 00:58:56,220
So he's out selling all of

1179
00:58:56,220 --> 00:59:00,705
this computer
rigmaroles to banks.

1180
00:59:00,705 --> 00:59:04,470
>> So what are your
children's names?

1181
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:06,735
>> Susan is the oldest.

1182
00:59:06,735 --> 00:59:08,770
>> She was born when?

1183
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,710
>> 1950. And then
Barbara was born

1184
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:16,710
two years later and she's
the one who came to

1185
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:18,630
school here and she was

1186
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:21,375
the first girl to
major in finance

1187
00:59:21,375 --> 00:59:26,550
and also in statistics,
I think she was.

1188
00:59:26,550 --> 00:59:29,010
And then my son Stewart.

1189
00:59:29,010 --> 00:59:32,565
And while he was
working for the bank,

1190
00:59:32,565 --> 00:59:34,410
they sent him to school,
he graduated from

1191
00:59:34,410 --> 00:59:37,455
Georgia State, I think it is.

1192
00:59:37,455 --> 00:59:40,815
So we have a very happy family.

1193
00:59:40,815 --> 00:59:42,240
And we're all living here.

1194
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:43,650
They wanted us to move down from

1195
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:46,410
Chicago because they
were afraid that we

1196
00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:47,700
have a road rage or

1197
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:50,955
something or run into some
abutment or something.

1198
00:59:50,955 --> 00:59:52,680
They found this
apartment for us.

1199
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,470
That's where I'm living
down in that apartment.

1200
00:59:55,470 --> 01:00:00,045
>> And your wife she
passed away in 2010.

1201
01:00:00,045 --> 01:00:01,170
>> I'm sorry what?

1202
01:00:01,170 --> 01:00:02,445
>> Your wife, she passed away?

1203
01:00:02,445 --> 01:00:06,010
>> Yes. She's been
dead about a year now.

1204
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:12,760
>> But you still see your
children frequently?

1205
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:17,790
>> She had one son
who who went to

1206
01:00:17,790 --> 01:00:20,655
University of Georgia and

1207
01:00:20,655 --> 01:00:23,595
he took over his
mother's business.

1208
01:00:23,595 --> 01:00:26,115
Barbara his mother.

1209
01:00:26,115 --> 01:00:27,930
And he's in her business now,

1210
01:00:27,930 --> 01:00:32,590
and he's a financial
advisor and my son,

1211
01:00:34,940 --> 01:00:39,940
as I say this is his 16th job.

1212
01:00:41,420 --> 01:00:44,880
>> So before I ask
you my last question,

1213
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,005
I wanted to actually go back.

1214
01:00:46,005 --> 01:00:51,000
I realized that I didn't
ask you early on.

1215
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,060
You had mentioned that
when you were first in

1216
01:00:54,060 --> 01:00:56,340
school at the
University of Wisconsin

1217
01:00:56,340 --> 01:00:57,840
that you tried to work,

1218
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,060
where you worked briefly
on airplane factory?

1219
01:01:00,060 --> 01:01:02,530
>> I worked in a steel mill.

1220
01:01:04,490 --> 01:01:06,930
If I wanted to stay in school,

1221
01:01:06,930 --> 01:01:10,390
I needed money, so I
had to earn some money.

1222
01:01:11,780 --> 01:01:15,360
I forget who it was
at the dinner table.

1223
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,670
I told you we had
these like 15 people

1224
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:19,440
for dinner they talked

1225
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,510
different things
and they said they

1226
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:23,955
heard about this steel mill
that needed some people.

1227
01:01:23,955 --> 01:01:26,145
So I applied and I got the job.

1228
01:01:26,145 --> 01:01:28,905
And we were making

1229
01:01:28,905 --> 01:01:34,020
fuel oil tanks for
tanks for Army tanks.

1230
01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:40,320
And our job was to weld these
tanks to hold gasoline.

1231
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,210
Well, after they're welded,

1232
01:01:42,210 --> 01:01:44,820
they have to be tested
because the weld doesn't

1233
01:01:44,820 --> 01:01:47,790
always hold and they

1234
01:01:47,790 --> 01:01:50,430
has to be rewelded in
these certain places.

1235
01:01:50,430 --> 01:01:53,310
I was a tester. We
would test these

1236
01:01:53,310 --> 01:01:56,085
by putting them in tanks
of water and so on.

1237
01:01:56,085 --> 01:01:59,520
Then they asked us to
who wanted to learn

1238
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,690
to weld because welders
make very good money.

1239
01:02:03,690 --> 01:02:09,975
Years ago, big ships used
to be bolted together.

1240
01:02:09,975 --> 01:02:13,815
That takes a lot of weight.

1241
01:02:13,815 --> 01:02:16,800
They could use the
weight someplace else.

1242
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,060
The Germans learned to

1243
01:02:18,060 --> 01:02:21,120
weld instead of using
these big bolts.

1244
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:25,940
So Americas needed to
make all the ships.

1245
01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:29,690
And if you could weld
overhead particularly,

1246
01:02:29,690 --> 01:02:31,330
you can make very good money

1247
01:02:31,330 --> 01:02:33,255
and it's working for
a steel company.

1248
01:02:33,255 --> 01:02:35,490
And they asked us
in this factory,

1249
01:02:35,490 --> 01:02:37,200
if anybody want
to learn to weld.

1250
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,000
I said, sure, I'll learn.

1251
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,295
Well, when you weld,

1252
01:02:41,295 --> 01:02:46,740
you have an arc and the the rod

1253
01:02:46,740 --> 01:02:53,280
and what you're trying to weld
together it makes a very,

1254
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,390
very bright light and

1255
01:02:57,390 --> 01:02:59,550
you have to have some way
of protecting your eyes.

1256
01:02:59,550 --> 01:03:02,325
So you have a big mask. I
think you've seen them.

1257
01:03:02,325 --> 01:03:03,840
And so you snap your head

1258
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,495
down just as you're
making that arc

1259
01:03:06,495 --> 01:03:07,980
and the light goes right into

1260
01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:10,995
the glass and to
protect your eyes.

1261
01:03:10,995 --> 01:03:12,810
I had a hard time getting

1262
01:03:12,810 --> 01:03:17,460
my eyes accustomed to
hitting it at the same time.

1263
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:19,320
And I said, this is not for me.

1264
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,765
I'm going to go blind
if I keep doing this.

1265
01:03:21,765 --> 01:03:23,160
So I gave it up.

1266
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,480
I said, I'm not a welder.

1267
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,365
>> And this factory where
you worked was it unionized?

1268
01:03:31,365 --> 01:03:34,125
>> They were in Milwaukee.

1269
01:03:34,125 --> 01:03:35,700
Yeah. It was still mill.

1270
01:03:35,700 --> 01:03:37,530
>> Was there a union there?

1271
01:03:37,530 --> 01:03:40,390
>> Yes. You bet it was.

1272
01:03:44,990 --> 01:03:47,700
We didn't have trouble
with the welding,

1273
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:50,625
but the welds came
around too frequently.

1274
01:03:50,625 --> 01:03:53,940
And they they have a man
who comes around and

1275
01:03:53,940 --> 01:03:55,650
checks you and you're supposed

1276
01:03:55,650 --> 01:03:57,705
to do so much work in an hour.

1277
01:03:57,705 --> 01:04:00,390
Well, if it wasn't done,

1278
01:04:00,390 --> 01:04:02,520
if maybe we could check

1279
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,375
five tanks an hour.
That's all we could do.

1280
01:04:06,375 --> 01:04:09,255
Well, sometimes we
couldn't do that many,

1281
01:04:09,255 --> 01:04:11,220
then they sent
this guy around to

1282
01:04:11,220 --> 01:04:13,635
check and find out what
was why we couldn't do it.

1283
01:04:13,635 --> 01:04:14,970
We're trying to explain that

1284
01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:16,590
sometimes the welds
wouldn't work,

1285
01:04:16,590 --> 01:04:18,585
we could only do one an
hour or two an hour.

1286
01:04:18,585 --> 01:04:20,070
Now, you got to do five an hour

1287
01:04:20,070 --> 01:04:22,035
or you lose some of your pay.

1288
01:04:22,035 --> 01:04:24,840
But we went to the steward
and we explained to him.

1289
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,020
We said, we don't mind doing
five or 10, if we can,

1290
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:30,270
but some of them don't weld,

1291
01:04:30,270 --> 01:04:31,860
it takes us a longer time.

1292
01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:34,350
He said, okay. Any problem?

1293
01:04:34,350 --> 01:04:36,045
What do you what do you suggest?

1294
01:04:36,045 --> 01:04:40,320
He said, well, we'll
do as many as we can.

1295
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,695
But we'll do 10 if we can.

1296
01:04:43,695 --> 01:04:45,900
We don't mind that. So he said,

1297
01:04:45,900 --> 01:04:49,215
okay, everybody in
the factory stop.

1298
01:04:49,215 --> 01:04:52,710
And everybody on the floor

1299
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:54,120
stopped while he
went and talked to

1300
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,280
the management and then they

1301
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,770
sent this man around again
who was going to check on it.

1302
01:04:58,770 --> 01:05:03,060
So he agreed that you have to

1303
01:05:03,060 --> 01:05:08,560
do more than five and if
you only do one or two,

1304
01:05:08,810 --> 01:05:13,170
we can't deduct
from your salary.

1305
01:05:13,170 --> 01:05:15,510
So it was one of
those things that we

1306
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:18,405
agreed on and it
worked very nicely.

1307
01:05:18,405 --> 01:05:20,160
So in my case,

1308
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,840
I was very happy to
be part of the union.

1309
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,635
You want some of my coffee?

1310
01:05:35,635 --> 01:05:38,270
>> Thanks. I've got
some water here.

1311
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:43,330
So I was curious,

1312
01:05:43,330 --> 01:05:45,355
in the factory where
you were working,

1313
01:05:45,355 --> 01:05:47,830
were there White workers,

1314
01:05:47,830 --> 01:05:50,960
Black workers all
working together?

1315
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,680
>> I was only in a
certain section.

1316
01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:00,235
So you only see those people
in your particular section.

1317
01:06:00,235 --> 01:06:02,380
So where I was working, no,

1318
01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:05,290
I didn't see any Black
people working there.

1319
01:06:05,290 --> 01:06:07,330
Not that they
wouldn't hire them,

1320
01:06:07,330 --> 01:06:09,700
but I just didn't see any.

1321
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:13,040
>> And you come from Baltimore.

1322
01:06:13,230 --> 01:06:15,610
Was Baltimore segregated at

1323
01:06:15,610 --> 01:06:17,320
that time when you
were growing up there?

1324
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,460
>> Yes. Definitely.

1325
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:23,320
>> I remember because you
mentioned that when you were in

1326
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,645
the VA hospital in

1327
01:06:25,645 --> 01:06:28,270
Chicago and you were

1328
01:06:28,270 --> 01:06:30,220
talking with all different
kinds of soldiers,

1329
01:06:30,220 --> 01:06:31,330
you learned more about

1330
01:06:31,330 --> 01:06:33,400
the experiences of some
of the [OVERLAPPING]

1331
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:34,900
>> Absolutely.

1332
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:38,220
>> Was that something
that was new to you?

1333
01:06:38,220 --> 01:06:39,810
Did you know any Black people

1334
01:06:39,810 --> 01:06:41,535
when you were living
back in Baltimore?

1335
01:06:41,535 --> 01:06:47,170
>> No. But that's

1336
01:06:47,170 --> 01:06:51,685
what really turned me on
that we're all the same.

1337
01:06:51,685 --> 01:06:54,040
In fact, we were at

1338
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,260
the discussion at church
once upon a time,

1339
01:06:56,260 --> 01:07:01,060
and I said, God doesn't
make any mistakes.

1340
01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:02,905
I mean, he's not stupid.

1341
01:07:02,905 --> 01:07:06,655
Why would he make Black
people, White people,

1342
01:07:06,655 --> 01:07:09,565
Brown people, Red people,

1343
01:07:09,565 --> 01:07:13,220
and whatever else;
yellow people, I guess?

1344
01:07:13,230 --> 01:07:16,405
Unless we find out why,

1345
01:07:16,405 --> 01:07:18,610
maybe that's why
we're having trouble.

1346
01:07:18,610 --> 01:07:21,235
Once you find out
why he did that,

1347
01:07:21,235 --> 01:07:25,225
maybe that'll give us peace.

1348
01:07:25,225 --> 01:07:32,090
I don't know. Anyhow, that
helps me out to do that.

1349
01:07:32,340 --> 01:07:37,250
>> I guess the last question
I want to ask you is,

1350
01:07:40,110 --> 01:07:42,520
your experiences
during World War II,

1351
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,125
what do they mean to you today?

1352
01:07:44,125 --> 01:07:45,910
Why do you think
people should know

1353
01:07:45,910 --> 01:07:48,760
about what it was like?

1354
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,875
>> Well, according to
what we're taught,

1355
01:07:50,875 --> 01:07:53,575
love is the most
important thing there is.

1356
01:07:53,575 --> 01:07:56,635
Most people don't know
what love is all about.

1357
01:07:56,635 --> 01:07:59,440
Otherwise, they wouldn't be
around shooting people or

1358
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,470
killing people or hanging
them or whatever they do.

1359
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:04,960
And I think we have
to learn that.

1360
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,060
And that's the most
important thing.

1361
01:08:07,060 --> 01:08:12,640
And that helping people,
being neighborly,

1362
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:19,765
being friendly, how can you
improve society if possible?

1363
01:08:19,765 --> 01:08:22,825
Why do people have to have guns?

1364
01:08:22,825 --> 01:08:25,555
I don't oppose the guns,

1365
01:08:25,555 --> 01:08:28,420
because I shot all the guns I

1366
01:08:28,420 --> 01:08:31,090
wanted to shoot and did
all that sort of thing,

1367
01:08:31,090 --> 01:08:33,745
but we have police;

1368
01:08:33,745 --> 01:08:36,670
we have the civil police,

1369
01:08:36,670 --> 01:08:40,585
we have National Guard,

1370
01:08:40,585 --> 01:08:44,200
and all these people
who should carry guns.

1371
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:52,555
Why would a person in a
city need a machine gun?

1372
01:08:52,555 --> 01:08:56,960
That's stupid, as far
as I'm concerned.

1373
01:08:57,270 --> 01:09:02,995
And I think the Second
Amendment is misinterpreted.

1374
01:09:02,995 --> 01:09:04,930
Remember, in those days,

1375
01:09:04,930 --> 01:09:06,520
they didn't have rifles.

1376
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,860
A rifle is different
than a musket.

1377
01:09:08,860 --> 01:09:10,525
You understand why,

1378
01:09:10,525 --> 01:09:14,410
about the grooves and the rifle?

1379
01:09:14,410 --> 01:09:17,425
It would take you a minute

1380
01:09:17,425 --> 01:09:21,560
to reload after
you've shot once.

1381
01:09:23,580 --> 01:09:28,360
Today, what? You have a machine
gun go to a movie house

1382
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:33,170
and you can shoot like 16
bullets in a couple seconds.

1383
01:09:33,270 --> 01:09:36,475
So why do you need rifles?

1384
01:09:36,475 --> 01:09:38,920
I mean, yes, let's all
go back to muskets.

1385
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,360
Everybody's entitled
to a musket.

1386
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,325
[LAUGHTER] They're
not minding those.

1387
01:09:42,325 --> 01:09:43,930
You can go ahead and shoot deer,

1388
01:09:43,930 --> 01:09:48,475
shoot turkeys, and
things like that.

1389
01:09:48,475 --> 01:09:51,160
Maybe there were Indians
attacking you or something,

1390
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,860
but we don't have that anymore.

1391
01:09:53,860 --> 01:09:56,440
So why do you need
a machine gun?

1392
01:09:56,440 --> 01:09:58,540
>> So do you think that learning

1393
01:09:58,540 --> 01:10:00,370
about World War II and learning

1394
01:10:00,370 --> 01:10:04,960
about Veterans' experiences can

1395
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,215
help people put it
all in perspective?

1396
01:10:08,215 --> 01:10:10,465
>> Well, everybody is different.

1397
01:10:10,465 --> 01:10:15,580
We all have a mind. We have

1398
01:10:15,580 --> 01:10:17,630
wonderful minds and
we should use them.

1399
01:10:17,630 --> 01:10:19,740
And so you have to
make your decision.

1400
01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:22,155
You may believe something
that I don't believe.

1401
01:10:22,155 --> 01:10:23,675
I don't say you're wrong,

1402
01:10:23,675 --> 01:10:25,600
I'm not going to go
shoot you because you

1403
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,075
don't believe my beliefs.

1404
01:10:28,075 --> 01:10:32,665
So we have to learn that
we all are different.

1405
01:10:32,665 --> 01:10:35,170
But we're all one
because we've been

1406
01:10:35,170 --> 01:10:38,780
created by God, I suppose.

1407
01:10:40,430 --> 01:10:43,935
I think our job in
life now is to try to

1408
01:10:43,935 --> 01:10:47,920
make peace and be neighborly.

1409
01:10:49,730 --> 01:10:56,745
>> Do you want to show us
the hat that you brought?

1410
01:10:56,745 --> 01:10:58,390
>> Sure.

1411
01:11:09,540 --> 01:11:11,425
I didn't know it was open.

1412
01:11:11,425 --> 01:11:12,715
>> There you go.

1413
01:11:12,715 --> 01:11:25,420
>> Thank you. [LAUGHTER]

1414
01:11:25,420 --> 01:11:30,205
>> So it says Marine
Corps League.

1415
01:11:30,205 --> 01:11:36,295
And is this something that
all veterans get or is it?

1416
01:11:36,295 --> 01:11:39,040
>> Well, they have
the American Legion,

1417
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:43,000
Veterans of Foreign Wars,
Disabled American Veterans.

1418
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,435
They're all groups, and this
is a group for Marines.

1419
01:11:46,435 --> 01:11:49,015
>> And what does the group do?

1420
01:11:49,015 --> 01:11:51,280
>> They take care, supposedly,

1421
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,455
of Marines who are wounded.

1422
01:11:53,455 --> 01:11:55,600
Now, they have the veterans.

1423
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,580
You see the versement
for the veterans.

1424
01:11:57,580 --> 01:12:00,745
Well, part of them is
the Marine Corps league.

1425
01:12:00,745 --> 01:12:04,450
So they help if

1426
01:12:04,450 --> 01:12:05,710
they're poor or they're broke

1427
01:12:05,710 --> 01:12:07,825
or they're sick or something,

1428
01:12:07,825 --> 01:12:10,540
or they need help at the VA.

1429
01:12:10,540 --> 01:12:14,320
So that's what we do.

1430
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:16,540
And we meet once a month.

1431
01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:18,775
>> How long have
you been a member?

1432
01:12:18,775 --> 01:12:23,740
>> Couple of years
now. American Legion,

1433
01:12:23,740 --> 01:12:26,275
I was with my father.

1434
01:12:26,275 --> 01:12:30,340
So I've been there for
60 years, I guess.

1435
01:12:30,340 --> 01:12:33,280
[LAUGHTER]

1436
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:34,930
>> So is there anything
else that I didn't

1437
01:12:34,930 --> 01:12:36,730
ask you about that
you want to say,

1438
01:12:36,730 --> 01:12:38,875
that you want to mention?

1439
01:12:38,875 --> 01:12:41,560
>> Well, let me think.

1440
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,630
That's dangerous,
I have to think.

1441
01:12:51,150 --> 01:12:54,430
Well, I wish more
people would go

1442
01:12:54,430 --> 01:12:56,710
to the Veterans
Administration and

1443
01:12:56,710 --> 01:13:01,915
see all these guys in
casts and wounded,

1444
01:13:01,915 --> 01:13:05,560
learning to, if they're
blind or if they're crippled

1445
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,710
or one leg or one arm
missing or something.

1446
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:16,430
Why we shouldn't be like Islam.

1447
01:13:17,460 --> 01:13:20,365
To me, that's not a religion.

1448
01:13:20,365 --> 01:13:22,195
If it's a religion,

1449
01:13:22,195 --> 01:13:23,890
you don't go around
killing people,

1450
01:13:23,890 --> 01:13:26,830
because you're supposed
to have love and joy,

1451
01:13:26,830 --> 01:13:31,465
peace, and they don't seem
to believe in those things.

1452
01:13:31,465 --> 01:13:32,950
And if you don't
believe what they

1453
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:34,810
do, then they can kill you.

1454
01:13:34,810 --> 01:13:37,810
I mean, how can you
put a man in a cage,

1455
01:13:37,810 --> 01:13:40,840
lock it, and then
set it on fire?

1456
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:45,520
Is that human? Just because

1457
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,890
I don't believe
what you believe,

1458
01:13:47,890 --> 01:13:51,110
that's not the way to treat me.

1459
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,330
That's why it's a rough world,

1460
01:13:55,330 --> 01:13:57,760
because we're trying
to get people love

1461
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,400
one another and others don't
want to do it, I guess.

1462
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,845
>> Thank you for coming and
speaking with us today.

1463
01:14:05,845 --> 01:14:08,420
>> Oh, I'm very
happy to do that.