>> During April 1986,
I made the following interviews for
the Cobb Landmark Society as part of
the exhibit entitled Upon This Rock.
I am Thomas A. Scott of
the History Department of Kennesaw College.
The people I interviewed were Annie May Solomon,
Ernestine Slade, M. J.
Woods, Ursuline Adams, Rosalie Andrews,
E. L. Stoffell,
Alfred Jackson, Hattie Wilson,
William Hudson, and Doctor R. L. Johnson.
And I'm going to begin, I think,
by asking miss Solomon,
if you would say a few words about what life was like in
the early years of the 20th century
in Marietta when you were growing up there?
>> Well, it was great.
Everybody was interested in other people's families.
And we taken care of
children that mothers didn't take care of and
leave them and take
them in the in your home and feed
them and them just like they were there.
And if we had we had cows and
chickens and some of the body across town didn't have,
but we would send them milk and butter,
once and twice a week and chickens on the weekend.
>> Did you grow up right in the middle of Marietta?
>> Yes, I did. I grew up mostly on Lemon Street.
>> I see. And at that time,
everybody had cows and chickens.
>> Yes we had cows, chickens, and holes.
And gardens, well,
Marietta was a population of 700 people at that time.
And they were all one big family.
There were no segregation,
no splits, or nothing.
And didn't care what color your skin was or how
high your education was or how low your education was,
if you needed one,
they would always there to help you.
>> Miss Aleman, you said before that you were born
about 1902, is that right?
>> That's right.
>> And so you were growing
up then in the first decade of the 20th century.
And at that time,
were there many streets that were paved in Marietta?
>> No. They were not. And there wasn't too many cars
at that time and there was
more house and buggies at that time.
And we had one doctor in
Marietta and he was named doctor Kim.
Doctor Kim. And he traveled with
the horse and buggy a little round suitcase.
>> I see.
So they made house calls
then they made house calls for everything.
>> Then, there were no hospitals.
And there was a place out from
town that they called the pool house and
they sent people older people
who like now they put in nursing homes now.
They sent them out to this place and
the county taking good care of them.
>> What would you do then if you heard
that somebody down on
the next street didn't have
any food and didn't have any money and what have you.
What kind of things would you do?
You wouldn't call family and children services then.
I don't guess.
>> No. We would go into
my mother would go into her pantry and divide what she
had and send them
and shows got loading somebody else with the bag in send.
>> Did people just drop in on
each other's houses then without
knocking or without calling
ahead or what have you? Was it.
>> Was it here somebody knock at the door
and you go to the door and be a neighbor friend
or someone tell you about something across town that
they had heard because it wasn't in
the telephone in my neighborhood at that time.
>> You think that that's different now or do you
think we're still that kind of friendly atmosphere?
>> No. It's different now.
Seems to be well,
we had prayer in the homes and
the elderly people seem
to have more of Jesus in their life.
They mostly depending on
God to guide them and leave them and help them.
And now the people seem
depend on their education and the money,
and they have a attitude
that I got mine now you get yours the best when you can.
And some now some people will
go and see about
some the sick and then some will just say,
well, fail prepared like I did.
That's up today, but we didn't
have anything like that when I was growing up.
>> Where did you go to school? Lemon Street.
>> Lemon Street, it was
called Lemon Street Public School.
It was a plank building.
It wasn't a brick building at that time.
And it was a two storey building and
all the they had two schools,
one is for the white and one was for black.
>> Lemon Street was the one for the White Lemon Street.
I mean, for the Blacks and then the.
>> Red run James Street for the white.
>> Was the Lemon Street school on
the same location that
the brick building was built later?
>> No. It's at the location where the library is now.
>> But that's where the elementary school?
>> That's where the Elementary.
>> And and then where was the high school?
>> We didn't have a high school at that time.
The high school come later.
And it was on the corner of Johnson and Hans,
Jason and Harold.
Johnson and Harold.
>> When the high school came in.
>> But it was later to the school that I went to.
>> Let's say, I guess perhaps Ms Swahid the high school
would probably come in about
the time when you were of that age, well? Yes.
>> Well, the high school was
built from money raised in our neighborhood.
And if I'm not mistaken
the Rosenwald fund match that money?
>> Yes. I've heard of the.
>> That the money that we
raised was matched with the Rosenwald.
By the Rosenwald money.
>> That was the money to build that building?
>> Well, it wasn't we didn't build the building,
it was set up in a house.
Okay. The first one that was set up
in a vacant house a three room house.
At that time, we called the gunshot house.
Set up in a three room gunshot house and
the rest room was tacked on the back.
Well, it was from Johnson and Harris.
And our first teachers were Ursula Jenkins
and [inaudible].
Both of them were local people and
the school that we had
three grades after you went to the 11th grade,
you could get to high school.
But it was a very,
it was a place that we people were very proud of.
And we children were just glad to
have a high school community.
And as small as it was in
and it was believed dilapidated.
But it meant as much to us
as if it had been a beautiful building.
And we cherished that dominion.
We all had the school spirit
and we had a girl basketball team,
boy's play football league.
>> Do you remember about how many students there were?
>> I don't really remember
that how many it was but it was less than 100.
>> About when did the high school move from
the location on Harold Street,
Johnson and Harold to Lemon Street?
>> It was about 1929 of February.
>> So it didn't stay very long in the old location.
>> We did not hold that too long.
And Mr. Woods came,
when our new building
was being erected what
we called the purchasing house for needy.
And he came until
they finished building the new brick building.
He came, but he would come from
the old public school over to Harold Street School.
During the day he
walked across that field. The local field.
After they finished building, the new school,
then we moved out of Harold High [inaudible].
They came into our new building,
which was a very nice building.
And all we looked
upon it as being something showing up great.
>> I never heard the name Harold High School before.
>> Well, that was old high school.
The school that we had where it was home of Harold
and Harold and Johnson Street
that was Harold High School.
>> I just have never had known what the name was.
>> And it was a wooden building setting up on pillow.
Had a porch on it?
Yeah it had a porch.
And that said restroom was built on
the back of the building.
It was truly nice.
And miss Solomon lived across the street.
>> Is that right?
>> She lived across the street from the student.
And those of us who knew her real well at lunchtime,
she have baked potatoes,
cookies and all the goodie stuff
and sells across the street.
>> So students didn't usually go home for lunch,
they just go right next door,
right across the street?
>> And every morning,
all the students that come from this side of the town,
we met on the corner of Lemon Street and Cole street.
And there was not a street then cut going up there.
But D Coles had a pasture.
And his cows was in the pasture and every morning,
we would have to let down
the gap to go through that and both
that passed out there comes too and you would
come through D Coles pasture,
a piece and then you come across, right out here who?
[inaudible] when they developed
that or whether it was a open field.
And we'd come across that open field?
>> It was the gin yard.
>> It was a great big open field,
and we had him
three or four boys would cross
there to keep the cows from getting out.
And we wait there. Everybody wouldn't
leave until all the others got there.
And then we'd let down that
yeah and walk across that field to school.
>> Why was it called the gin yard?
Was there a cotton gin there or something?
>> It was a cotton gin.
Right down there at the lower end
of this place that they come in.
>> And it was no going back home for lunch.
Everybody brought the sack lunch.
We had no cafeteria or nothing of that sort.
So we all brought sack lunch when we have recess,
if it's nice out,
we'd all go out and eat out our sacks.
And if it was a rainy day,
we eat on the inside.
>> And Mr. M J Woods,
who has been a prominent educator in
this community for over the last 50 years.
And I think maybe I will begin by asking Mr.
Woods since he's been in the community longer than any of
us to say a few words about how you came here?
And what the condition of
education was in Marietta when you arrived about,
if I recall correctly,
maybe 1928 or '29?
>> Twenty nine.
>> Yes. Would you tell me a little bit about where you
came from and how you came here?
>> In 1929, I met one of
the administrators of the Rosenwald fund.
And he advised me to make application to
Marietta as principal of the Lemon Street High School,
which was not in operation at that time,
but it would be the Lemon Street High School.
But over in that this time,
they had started the year before in a two room house,
which measured about 10 by 11
and the other both were about the same size.
And that was in 1929.
So following that,
in these two rooms,
I had charge of
one and another teacher had charge of the other.
That was the beginning of the Lemon Street High School.
>> Now, that was what was on
Harold Street, is that the Street?
>> Harold Street they called me.
And of course, I had charge of the elementary schools.
It was right across the street there from here.
And we had a representative
from the Rosenwald fund and he wanted to know
from me if I would like to
remain as principal of the high school,
which is supposed to be.
And of course, I had
charge of the elementary school also.
And that went on for quite a few years.
And after the third year,
we applied for the Rosenwald fund.
That came through and we were able to begin
that third year with
the building of the Lemon Street High School.
>> Some people nowadays may not
know what the Rosenwald Fund is.
Maybe you ought to tell us what
exactly wrote the Rosenwald Fund did?
>> Well, they gave the opportunity
of securing money for the construction of high schools.
So Mr. Ampy the superintendent at that time,
made application for it.
It came through next year.
And within that next year,
the building for the high school was
erected right in front of the old elementary school.
And right there, we began
the Lemon Street High School and proper.
>> Now, on the Rosenwald fund,
if I'm not mistaken,
you had to raise so much money yourself?
>> No, we didn't have to.
>> You didn't?
>> No, we didn't. No, I think yes,
the Board of Education did have
to match it with the save of the mind. I see.
>> And so then you built a school on Lemon Street?
>> Yes.
>> And what was the school originally called?
>> Well, there were so many different names.
It was first Mia High and Industrial School.
The next. It was
the what was the next I was.
>> Perkinson and the next.
>> It was Perkinson High School.
And then it was Mia High and Industrial School.
Well, of course, after Perkinson High School,
there came some order
of calling it the Perkinson High School because that was
one of the members of
the Perkinson one of the doctors here doctor Perkinson.
So then we changed it to 11th Street High School.
Because he didn't want his name attached
with I guess the Negro school.
>> So then you all proposed Lemon Street High School,
and that's what it became?
>> Yes.
>> I see. Did the school have
four grades in it by the time that it
was over on Lemon Street or was it?
>> Six grades.
>> Sixth grade in the high school?
>> I mean in the elementary
school through the sixth grade.
>> Sixth grade.
>> And then the high school
started with the eighth grade.
>> So you had eighth, ninth,
10th and then 11th?
>> Yes, it was added on
after we finished the eighth grade,
then we took the ninth grade
and the 10th and then the 11th.
That was the top grade at that time, 11 grades.
>> And so it actually took several years
before you started adding the first grades,
the eighth and ninth grades,
and then in time,
you're able to add another grade in a few years?
>> Yes.
>> Would you say something about how many students
were enrolled in Lemon Street and
what programs you had there for them?
>> Well, in the elementary school,
we had the first grade through the sixth.
And when the high school got in order,
we took the seventh grade in the high school.
>> I see.
>> So that was that gave us five grades.
In the Lemon Street High School?
>> About how many students did you have?
>> In the high school, we began with about 14 students.
>> 14 the whole high school?
>> High school. And that was in Baptist Town.
In this little two-room house.
>> And then about how large did it get finally?
>> Well, we added a year each year
until we finished the 11th grade.
At that time, it was in the 11th grade system.
And of course, later on,
it was 12 grades.
>> Were you able to add extracurricular activities?
>> Yes. When I came,
I asked the fellows if they were interested in football.
And those days, fellows
who were not in school could play.
Really? So we enrolled them from the city,
of course from the county also.
And they came and of course,
they help out building a good football team.
These fellows who came in,
they were most of them had never seen football player.
>> Is that right?
>> Had never seen. But at that time,
we were eligible for players who were not in school.
And we would round them up.
From around city and county.
And later on, Cartersville did not have a high school.
And we start bringing those pupils from Cartersville.
>> I see.
>> And the surrounding communities
like Austell Powder Springs.
And that's where it got started for Cartersville?
>> Miss Adams, did you go to Lemon Street High School?
>> No, I did not. I was from the country.
>> I see.
>> And I went to the real school.
>> Why don't you say something about them?
Well, I'd be happy to.
The first school I attended was
Paul McCool was in the house.
Es was my first teacher.
And the parents in the community
got together and decided they needed to school,
there's too many children in the community
did not have some form of education.
And they didn't volunteer to teach.
And she taught until you have
another time then Melinda Cost.
Mr. Roy Mc donated the houses.
>> And where was this located?
>> That was in the community of Black.
>> Black away.
>> And our community consisted of
one store post office and train station.
You could a little we call the train in so.
>> Now I know where Blackwell Elementary School is today.
>> Well, there's a road that leads off just
before you pass before you get to school
that goes on in the community.
And that's where transform of education
was caught and the lady I went in Savannah.
>> I see. Well,
what did you think about education out in the country?
>> It was exciting and
great you worked on the farm and you went to school.
>> Your family owned the farm or?
Did your brother own the farm?
>> We were sharecropping.
>> Sharecropping on the farm.
>> And you went to school from November,
the springtime to pin the crops in school crops.
Then you went back to school six weeks in the summer?
>> I see.
>> The crops was lain back.
>> About how many months a year did you go to school?
>> We didn't month,
I guess to we got in.
>> That's seven months. That's pretty good.
>> Because many times he
would go to school and come home and works..
>> About how many acres did you
all have on farm you work?
>> I couldn't tell you about hectarage.
I can tell you how it was the terminology
for that day was one horse of two horse crops.
And there was a large family of us.
That's 10 children in my family.
But we always had one horse crop
because most of us were girls.
My dad did not submit his women to fly.
>> I see.
>> I have eats. I had seven sisters and
two bros. And the brothers are younger.
So by the time they come along,
some of the girls [inaudible].
>> You must have had a cows and chickens.
>> I had cows, chickens, dogs,
and we grew basically what we even flower.
>> Did the girls work in the barnyard around the?
>> You had your miles?
Yes. My duties every morning to milk two times.
>> Is that right?
>> And churn and then be school on time.
>> What time did you have to get up to start doing?
>> You get up about five.
And you get your work done.
You didn't get your work done on time,
that you did it on time.
>> So you got
quite an education just working on the phone?
>> Oh. Yes.
>> Go ahead.
>> Your parents is the most important first you have, no.
And certainly, my parents used
every moment a teachable moment.
I learned to cook by being a find a week.
That you cook. You plan
what you was going to cook and you fixed time.
>> Did you have a wood stove or?
>> We had wood stove? Yes. And of
course my daddy would gather the wood in the summertime.
You put coils of wood and stack it up to dry.
>> Did you cut it on your own bots or did it?
>> On the farm you.
>> I see.
So that was part of the summer choice?
>> That was part of his summer choice.
Yours was going to school.
And of course, they grew wheat
and they cut In flower yet.
And my daddy was
a good cradle he would
cut the wheat with what they called the cradle.
And then our job was to go behind
the cradle and vulnerable shock it so to dry.
>> What did you grow anything other than what?
>> We grew corn, coffee,
and all sorts of vegetables.
Just basically everything that we
eat besides Cillen copper.
>> How did you pay the rent?
>> That's why you were called the share.
You rented the farm on that and half of it being made.
>> Pretty steep rent.
>> It was. That's the way they were in those days.
>> Did you have a line of credit at
a store that you to get your coffee?
>> Yes. Doing the winter month,
you prepared for the winter months
and you started farming in March.
And March up until July,
there would be a credit established of maybe $75 or $80.
That was to make your crop on along with what you had.
And then you bought half of the trip.
The Muever stock you used to
work the cops belong you rented.
So that was one of the ways reason they got happen.
>> Where was the store that you went to ban?
>> Who come in to Mito.
But woods stopped in Georgia.
That was a little store Paul Johnson store.
Credit was established and Fred Dunn
here used to be on Cherokee Street and [inaudible]
>> I see. What did you
have vana credit at one particular store?
>> One particular store for year.
Maybe if I wasn't satisfied with that next day.
>> Were the credit prices pretty high that you had?
>> Things were cheap in those days,
but as was credit charge you had
no system about I
wasn't charged because that's where your credit was.
>> How often did you go into a store?
>> Once a week or once a month or?
>> About once more or less every two weeks, maybe.
>> It must have been quite a ride
into Marietta at that time.
>> Blame wagon?
I take about a day.
Saturday was set aside to come into.
>> I was just thinking that today I came in from
the extreme northern part of the county
and got here in about 10 or 15 minutes.
But it was a little different back then.
>> You would walk? I wouldn't start.
>> Well, you get run over by
an automobile, you started out.
>> There wasn't very few calls.
There's a few telephones
the rural areas that I
lived in that was on the one telephone. And the McCles.
>> Are they the ones that owned the land?
>> They owned the land.
[POOR AUDIO SECTION - START]
>> What church did you go to at that time?
>> My father was a Methodist and we went to
Little Beth PM church on Triple Oak.
The cemetery is still there,
the church burned down some years back.
>> Well, that's quite a distance for you, wouldn't it?
>> No. Triple Oak is not that far.
>> Well, did you walk to church or ride in?
>> Ride in the buggy.
>> And the mule pulled the buggy.
>> Mule pulled the buggy of the [OVERLAPPING] took
away after that such an arch family.
>> Did the country churches meet every Sunday morning?
>> No, they would have service once a month.
He would have Sunday school every Sunday.
Methodist preaches at that time would be on circuits.
And he would have maybe four churches.
>> Yes. Circuit rider. I see.
>> My mother was always Baptist and she was a member
of Zion Baptist Church and Rosenwald when she married.
And until she came to [inaudible] Baptist church,
she did not bring the membership [inaudible].
And I was a leader was baptized,
which stopped and moved my letter to [inaudible].
>> I see.
>> Then I came to sign and [inaudible].
I have been [inaudible] for more than 40 years.
>> I'm going to begin by asking Mrs. Andrews to say
a few words about the businesses that she
remembers in Marietta in her youth.
Mrs. Andrews, would you talk a little bit
about the businesses in this area?
>> Every person and as soon as out of slavery,
they were very industrious.
They all started a little business of their own,
and then they proceeded to buy land two,
where I was born,
what we call Baptist Town. We had.
>> Where was Baptist Town?
>> Baptist hall.
>> Mr. Soba going to tell us in a few minutes.
Excuse me go ahead with your story.
>> There was a baseball park.
And Mr. G Morris,
who was a great uncle of some of
the marshals who are living.
He owned the big Colonial house opposite where I lived on
where I was born on Page Street
whole family born on Page Street.
And he had this white house.
He wore a white suit.
He had a white beard, and we called him Colonel G Morris.
And he cleared a space and built the ballpark.
And it was all Black ballpark.
And I give you the names of some of the men that
I remember as a child who played that.
And that was Jeff Robinson and
his brother said the Robinson brothers.
And then there was the Rainy brothers,
Will Bolden and Jesse Mc Mickens and his brother.
And by the way, Frank Mc Mickens was
Miss Adam Pray McNeil's Chauffeur.
Because Miss McNeil had
the first automobile and with Chauffeur we
lived the house is standing up on
Church Street where the Comics live.
And that whole group,
the bowlers and W.S Graham and I will repeat
myself the rains they had
this ball part the ball gate with the ball part.
But you mean bandy.
And they played all the functions and like dances.
By the way, they don't have anything like that.
We had three they had three places to dance.
Mr. Chuck, Mr. Chuck livery stable and then the Rogers,
Frank Rodgers Senior and his sons,
they had ice cream pools so forth on square.
And this was operated.
But they were Blacks.
And they had a place of
the ice cream pool then down Lemon Street,
this particular street, we had they had the KP Hall.
And everybody had some business going for them.
And they played good music and we had a;pianist,
Mr. Haber Clark Senior, Mr. John Easley.
And I can't think of Mr.
Pedopson played the bass field and he knew where the
PM and then we had a lady who was
Albamo her name was Becky Barnes.
They called her Becky Red.
She was a great pianist.
So then we had great going
on every 30 of May they would
charter street cars would come from Atlanta.
People were selling the part,
white and black sold they had a great time in the part.
So I don't see any else that carried on.
And if you think of anything else,
then you can come back to me.
>> Miss [inaudible],
would you continue maybe telling a little bit about
the businesses in this area that you can recall.
>> Well, I was born in reared on
Montgomery Street in what was called Baptist Time.
I assume it was called Baptist Town because most of
the people residents are publicly members of this church.
>> So the area around Montgomery Street?
>> Yes. The area of
Baptist Town consisted of six streets,
which is Mulberry, Harw,
Montgomery, Hunt, Johnson, and PayU.
None of which was pad. A Roth.
So in that area,
we had two shoemakers.
>> What was the name?
>> Mr. Crittenden and Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Arm chose each one of them when I was a child.
And Mr. Jackson used to sell best part's peanuts.
Miss Cretan also had a little store.
He except Washington Comes.
>> No, wasn't there a miss Crit who was a schoolteacher?
>> His granddaughter, Katherine Crit.
And we had Sign Peter,
by the name of Amanzo Cook.
He lived on Page Street to do
all the signs various businesses Marietta.
And there was Soma Street
that was run by Manny John Holmes.
He had a store there.
And was on be store.
There was another store at Garbage Street
that was run by Mr. Moreland.
And he was one of the town's painters.
He was a house painter.
And then there was
a man across the street from me by name John Braxton.
[LAUGHTER] Oh, boy.
He was a Carrington you can
always tell the house he built they would have
a little gingerbread tree and the house that
he originally lived in is still on
the m Street right across the street from you.
>> I see. Did he build his own home?
>> Yes.
>> And talking about
Uncle Press Butler. They had a restaurant?
Yes, he lived on Cherokee Street.
During that time, there were lots of
Black people who lived up down Cherokee Street.
All the way from Page on up to Gore Well, it's not good.
It was God Street. It's called Black Moraine Nine.
And we were recalling some of
the families that we remember that
live on Cherokee Street.
And Mr. Butler Press Butler had a restaurant.
And GB Gresham, who was a deacon of this church.
And what I can remember most about
him ever tied the shoes, his big fat.
[LAUGHTER] And he never fastened top but not
fast he was a superintendent for many years.
[POOR AUDIO SECTION - END]
>> Now, where exactly was
Press Butler's restaurant on Cherokee.
>> There used to be a brass [inaudible]
the end of the parking area of the police station nearly.
>> So it was right in the midst of
where the residential neighborhood.
>> Was there a thriving business district
on Warren Street at that time?
>> Yes.
>> It came later?
>> It came later.
All start a Mason from
McNeil Mercanrtvestment copy it was black on.
Where was the masonic Car?
Do you know where an home used to be?
Right on the farross turn Chapel.
Uh huh. Building across the street.
Absolutely. That was the masonic building
upstairs and an it was downstairs and called
the Marietta in I was a cafe
in upwelling in the Masonic building
the Hays the lady who has a beauty shops the street.
She and her husband had the
beauty shop and paper shop upstairs.
All of that was on street.
>> Now, you all remember Frank Rogers,
apparently, that there was also an Andrew Rogers.
Was he still alive when you all were growing up? Yes.
>> Now Andrew Rogers they
came and he was on the west side of the square.
They were I don't know where they came from,
but his barber shop catered to White Pintel owner.
And it was on the west side?
The first I remember.
Then he moved right right
where the trick shop is on the square.
That's it. They own property.
He takes away. And they owned property there.
>> Where specifically?
>> Well, now, the Andrew Rogers was he ever on
the east side of the square where
the soda mountain was that always [OVERLAPPING],.
>> That was Frank Rogers and
his sons of Frank Junior and Todd.
>> Was Andrew and were Andrew and Frank Rogers?
>> I think they were bros.
>> So they were both very prominent
businessmen on the square.
What other businessmen, do you recall on the square.
Were there other black businessmen.
>> I remember restaurants and
Susan Burton and her husband.
Uh huh. Right, where the memory of the hardware is done,
what we call the depot?
I was just I was real small.
They had a restaurant.
And then Mr. Stokes LV Stokes,
he came here and he had this nice tailoring and pressing.
And then we had the brewers,
they had a restaurant
which I can't think his first name Charlie Brewer.
Charlie Brewer. He had a restaurant.
And then Ant Ellen Smith was she's the only woman Now,
all this Black Sand.
She operated the pool room.
>> Is that right?
>> And En Smith.
>> Where was that located?
>> Down on North Street.
She she always had food
cooked over she lived over in a part of town
where Hedden was going over in
Holland Town and Ellen Smith would come with a basket
in her shawl little head on and
she showed little ages and
fried pies and stuff. All right.
>> I'm talking today to Mr. Alfred Jackson,
who lives on Chastain Road in Kennesaw.
And he is an authority on
the Mount Zion AME Church in Kennesaw,
which is on Wade Green Road,
very close to where I 75 passes by these days.
And I'm going to ask Mr. Jackson a few questions to
begin with about the Mount Zion AME Church.
And Mr. Jackson, would you begin by
telling me approximately how
old do you think the church is?
>> Well, goes back to
South Carolina to Charleston
in the early 1800 about 1800.
And it was March Brown Organization first.
It came out of the White trinity to
United Methodist what it
was United Methodist Piscoal Church South.
And they set up an independent organization which was
actually organized there the black members of the church.
And due to the slave law.
It was closed out. They found
a plot of insurrection in there.
And Marsh Brown being the pastor,
he left and went to Philadelphia,
United Richard Island there.
And some of those people were fined,
some of quip some was jailed and some sold.
And that's how Mount Zion got to
Cole County and no doubt of People that was
migrated Virginia down through
the Carolins to Georgia bought these people,
probably some of them at a reasonable price.
And that's how they migrated to Cole County.
>> Which slave insurrection was this?
>> Well, there was a little small something
there in this church.
The thing that they found,
and you can find an account of it in
the book the romance of African methodism. Uh huh.
They didn't say exactly what it was,
but actually it was against the law for them to
have me anything without
some white pressure with
authority being, you know, present.
>> I see. And so after that,
the congregation was dispersed.
>> Right, they did away with it.
So as I said, like Marsh Brown,
he went to Philadelphia.
>> Yes.
>> And the free people they they could leave.
Uh huh. They were free as well as slaves.
Right. It was against the law of
free Blacks and slaves to tend mingle together.
And some was whipped. That was that punishment.
>> Yes.
>> Some was fine.
And some of those slaves.
>> And so some of them from there
ended up over here in Cobb County, Georgia.
So the church was actually
formed here before the Civil War?
>> Way before the beginning of the county.
[inaudible] haven't been where it's at all the time.
It used to be on what's called Booth Road. Uh huh.
I started there in a shop,
miss Locum tells her parents told her.
She was telling her husband.
>> No. Miss Locum was one of the older members too?
>> [inaudible] her parents
we were members of that church.
Her father were born in 1839,
mother was in 1849.
They said as long as they could remember that
had been Moz church.
>> I see.
And Booth Road,
did Booth Road run the same place?
Nowadays, Booth road runs
from Shava over to Bell's ferry.
Is that approximately the way?
Well, there were some changes, I would imagine.
I'm not certain about this.
That it probably came down through that and
maybe out by Chest it down at some place.
Because it had changed
from what it were, you know, originally.
>> But that was where the church was
a And they tell me somewhere wherever that shot was.
It was about a couple of graves there.
I haven't I haven't
seen what the shot when my father said he did.
Saw those grave, but I don't see it.
>> And then it moved up about when do you think it moved
up to Shadow Wade green room?
>> I would think the d to
the original des to my were stray,
something happened to him.
And we would believe
that Mr. Gressm gave that first acre land there
about 1855 along about the time
that he donated land
for cemetery right the Gressm cemetery right there.
And the earliest stone out there shows
that the person was buried in 1855,
so therefore we had, you know, go in that direction.
And we just assumed that he gave the land
an acre land from about zones
in the cemetery at the same time.
>> Now, this is the Gruesome Shaw for roof?
>> Right.
>> And so that cemetery on Chaford Road,
you're seeing that back to 1855? Right.
>> [inaudible] to 18 55.
>> I see. Could you
tell me something about some of the famous people
or prominent people that have been involved with
Mount Zion AME Church over the years?
>> About the most permanent person that I
can think of was Henry McNeil Turner.
He was the first appertent pastor from the time
that Mount Zion was originated here in Cobb County
up until after the Civil War had
no connection with the parent body of African Methodism,
and it was just an independent organization there.
And after the war, when the AME Church to fully come into
the style and set
up churches and what have you
into the various conferences and thing.
Henry McNeil Turner was
the first pastor appointed to Munzne church.
What I mean, first path he was
the first ordained minister up there.
And that was he was appointed that I
was what you call the South Carolina
[inaudible] met in Savannah, Georgia.
And he was appointed here.
And they organized this district,
this area from Dalton back to
Atlanta and what you call the Marietta District.
And Andrew Brown was the first presiding elder.
And he was in the north around Dalton.
They put Turner in the center,
which was Mount Zion
and they had another gentleman on the south.
And and that's how the district ran
from from Atlanta north up through Dalton.
>> About what year was this that we're talking about.
>> This is about 1866.
>> Right after the war.
>> Right after the war. They get the congregation off.
And a lot of these congregations they
came out of the White Church.
They went and then after the war,
they set up, you know,
churches on their own and they would take
whole congregations into the AME Church.
Sometimes they go into the CME Churches,
other phones methods are either baptist.
Usually a slave will believe in
the same denomination that, you know, already.
>> Well, where did Turner live when he was in this area.
>> He had a home up here.
Now, they had a postage up here at Mount Zion.
And one of the older members
told me he lived in that postage.
Well, I see Mount Zion was a building that was
already a congregation and
everything when Turner was a party here.
And so evidently, they had a postage there.
And eventually, he bought a home going
into Kennesaw out there and he lived there,
but finally, he moved, you know, to Atlanta.
It'd be more convenient to live in a place
like Atlanta than out here on you know,
he had better transportation
and what he had a holding position
in the church that he did.
>> Now, Turner is famous for his politics as well as
his religion, particularly during reconstruction,
when he was in the legislature and later on as well,
did that politics carry over into
any activities as far as
the methodists in this area
you were concerned as far as, you know?
>> Not as far as I know of.
The only thing I don't know,
it probably were in this area,
but all over the state as far as the [inaudible] he
start was involved in this back to Africa movement.
But that never didn't materialize into anything.
Maybe if he went, I don't know if any,
you know, from here went or not.
>> Ms. Solomon, you were going to tell me a little
bit earlier about what
you remember about baptisms at
Zion Baptist Church in the old days.
And would you tell me that story
of where you went for it?
>> We were great, everybody enjoyed it,
and you couldn't get to that lake that be
all on the hills and on the fences and
clam up the trees when you had
bats but we would start from the old Zion.
And the creatures would have on the baptising robes.
And two or four deacons would have on their robes,
and they would line up two
D. And then the candidates would
line two D. They'd have on the baptising gowns and robes,
whatever is going to be baptized here,
and they'd have shoes on,
but we'd slip them off when we go over to the lakes.
Then they would leave the church singing hymns,
and when they got down on Street very near the lake,
then the pitch would change and start singing the song
about taking to the water to be baptised.
And they would go in to at
the time and they would be singing all the same time.
>> Could you tell me exactly where the lake was?
>> It was on Law Street right where
Lake Street comes out into [inaudible].
>> Right at the corner of it?
>> It was in the middle of the block.
>> In the middle of the block down Lake Street.
>> On Orange street.
>> On Orange Street?
>> Yeah. But Lake Street run
into into Lake Street right at the lake.
>> I see.
>> And the lake was owned by Prince Jackson.
>> Who was Prince Jackson?
>> He was a public family that
lived there and had this late.
>> Was he a businessman in the area or?
>> Yes he was at that time.
And then we would dress in the little houses that they
had for the people who swim to change clothes.
And we come back to church on Sunday night.
>> What sounds like a good outing for the day?
>. It was.
They didn't baptize every month then.
They baptized about three months during the summer.
In the winter, they didn't baptize at all.
Because it was cold.
>> Too cold. When did they start baptizing indoors?
>> Later they changed the [inaudible] and later they
first had a baptizing under the poolpit in the church.
And then a few years later,
they built it in the back of the where
the class stand is changed the class stand.
The class stand in the old church was
on the left hand side of the wall.
>> A question.
Were there any libraries for
Blacks before World War 2 in this area?
>> No. The library for Blacks was opened in 1947.
And it was after the Foothill homes had been built?
They opened there were only three libraries at that time.
The one on Church Street was strictly white.
They opened one in
Marietta Place for white children only.
And miss Andy Dolce,
I don't know whether you ever knew her or not.
But she was really a [inaudible].
She believed in doing what she thought was right
when she got it in her mind,
then you were going to do it.
And she thought if they had one in
Mariette place for White,
they were going to have one somewhere for Black.
And they donated the space in back of the building that
fits back off of Lemon street on the left going out.
They fixed up a little hole in
the wall behind the office.
Because one time all the projects had
their office on the ground.
And they fixed I guess it was
a little room not larger than a bedroom that we have now.
That was a place and only library of far Blacks.
And that was done in 1947.
The union well, it's a Junior League now,
but then it was called the Junior Welfare League
George Dosh was the president.
And they maintained the Fort Hill Library
and the Mariette Place Library.
We could not even, because Ms. Ti Sibley,
Ms. Ben Sibley, everybody called Ms. Ti.
I ain't Tabby is what they usually call her.
She was the librarian up
at the clock by where the [inaudible] building is.
The only way that we could get
books because if you had to have a book,
or something that you were studying and
you need to you either had to go to
Atlanta and you had to go on one of the campuses to get.
And close after they opened this little branch.
The first librarian down there was
Ms. Larry Williams and she was a farmer.
She was a [inaudible] during World War 2.
And then after she quit [inaudible] Blackman took over.
And in 1951, I took it.
But at that time,
you could not borrow a book from the White library.
The only way we could get books,
I could get books that the kids needed.
So we had a lot of children going
off to school and they would need things.
I would have it sent to me at
Fort Hill and on Sunday morning after church,
on Saturday we were not open because we were
only open two days a
week and that was just about four hours.
You opened on Tuesday from 2-5 and on Saturday from 9-3.
You can't do too much.
And I would get the books down there.
Then I would go down and sit with them,
go down and lock them in the library
and damn let anybody in.
Because then you could you could leave children.
I wouldn't dare leave it now.
[LAUGHTER] You could leave
them and they would study because they wanted.
And that is the way that we started to getting books into
the black area that they could use not having to
go to Atlanta or borrowing them from somebody.
And of course then after Mr.
Whiteside came while Ms. Sibley was here.
And they started to branching out.
And of course, in the 50s and 60s
when everybody when he started integration,
then he didn't have a problem.
But there was only three library in Marietta.
And that was the Clark library on Church Street.
The [inaudible] Library on Lemon Street
and Mary Pak Library.
And at that time, it was not now
over the gym out by behind the civic center.
But at that time, it was in
the [inaudible] Prince housing property
before coming down and do.
>> Well, now, if I understand you correctly,
the Court Hill library
had very few books in
it to begin with. On what you're saying.
So basically, what you had to do is to get
the books from the Clark library
[NOISE] and you supervised
the people why they were the children,
while they were looking at the books [OVERLAPPING].
>> I had to, because they were reference books,
and we did not have a reference here.
After a while we got one well,
they sent us a set of world encyclopedia.
And it was a discarded set naturally.
What we got was like school books.
What they finished with then we get.
And of course, what I had to do was
just ask them to send them to me.
And I would not check him out.
I was afraid to check him out because at that time,
you know, we wasn't making a lot of money,
so I couldn't pay the book.
So I would stay there with them and let them study.
>> So you were at the Fort Hill
library from the beginning?
>> Not from the beginning.
Ms. Larry Williams was the very first librarian.
I don't think she stayed very
long. Well, she couldn't have.
And then Ora Lee Blackman
she was the second person and I was a third.
I came in in 1951.
>> I see. Now, when did the library
move into the old elementary school?
>> In 1971.
I moved across the street.
That was when we were having problems
trying to keep the well,
it was going to close down everything in
Marietta of culture in the Black neighborhood.
And the fate went on
that we needed something of culture beside the church.
>> Now what you're saying is that when they
integrated the schools here,
they closed immediately school.
>> They immediately tore down
the Rosmal School that we were talking about.
They immediately tore that part down,
but they didn't have the new part
down where they're using now.
>> So what you all did is that you went to
the city and asked them to keep the school.
>> We went to the city and all but had to fight
the city and everybody else to get it to stay open.
And Ms Joanne Stratton at that time was
acting as a head librarian.
They could not give her the title of
supervisor due to the fact that she
did not have a degree in library science.
But she was very good and she was another Ms Dorset.
What she believed in,
and she told them that they would leave
the building open because their complaint
was that they didn't want to leave
the building open because it was costing them so much.
And she said if they left it open,
she would move the library over there
herself if she had to carry book by book.
And finally, with everybody fighting and
pushing for the building to be left,
it was left open and the library moved in 1975.
>> How much has the library grown
in size since that time?
>> Oh, I'd say triple, a lot more.
And then now you see with the totally integrated system.
And in 1959,
it was no more Marietta library system
because up until '59,
it was Marietta library system.
And then it was the Cobb house library system.
But in 1959, it went together.
It merged as Cobb,
Marietta, and now it was Cobb County Library system.
And there are 14 libraries in Marietta in Cobb County.
>> When was it that the library is actually integrated
and the Blacks could check
out books from any of the libraries?
>> It was in the late '50s when everything was going.
>> That early?
>> Yeah. You could start checking out.
Still there wasn't that
much to check out because the library had not.
It was after '59 that everything went together.
And I guess it was around '62 or something like
that when you could go in the place you
wanted to get what you wanted and what you needed.
>> You were telling the other day that there were
sittings around the square in Marietta in the '60s.
Would you say something about that?
>> Well, I don't think I was
the one that was telling, one of the other ladies,
but I do remember it because
the life counters had not been integrated.
Well, they had not been totally integrated.
And Reverend Jesse Cook had what he started the NWACP.
And he had a junior group.
And of course, kids then were like kids now,
they'll try anything as much as once.
So they decided that they were going to
integrate all of the library downtown.
Not the libraries, I'm sorry.
All of the lunch rooms, and McClellan's,
[inaudible] and Dunaway. They closed him up.
I think it was on Wednesday afternoon.
I don't remember the date.
But so many kids went in and
sat down and they refused to serve.
And before they would serve,
they were closed and some of the kids,
one of the ladies that, well,
she's a lady now.
[inaudible] was one of them.
She's [inaudible] now, I believe, she's a barber dinner.
[inaudible].
She was one of the teenagers
that took a bunch of the smaller children,
both my kids went.
And because I think the Dunaway
called in and had him to open his lunch time immediately.
And the others opened up
the next morning with no problem.
>> You mean they opened up and
were integrated from that point?
>> From that point. I didn't have a problem.
Because now you had people who did not
want to serve the Blacks,
and they would be kind of nasty too.
But otherwise, there was no big to do.
It just opened up, integrated.
>> The drug stores around the square were opened?
>> Everybody opened up. The next
morning everything was integrated.
>> So nobody actually got arrested in the city?
>> Not that I know about.
>> Okay.
>> Of cause somebody could have,
but I don't remember.
>> Mr. Hudson, did you go to the Women's Trade School?
>> I went to Lemon Women Street School
in second grade.
I had very nice training.
It was Professor Norris.
And it was professor Maxy.
That was on the right side [inaudible] building.
>> The wooden building?
>> The old wooden building,
that was the library.
>> I have a picture of a 1918 graduating class of
Women Street School and
professor Maxy in the middle
of the picture and all the students.
>> Neves School was across the street.
That was dedicated at the same time Waterman Street was.
And it was dedicated as a colored public school.
Waterman Street was dedicated as a White public school.
>> Sometime when you open the picture,
I'll show you his diploma,
his graduating picture of his sister and he
and my mother's, is that the pictures?
>> Mr. Hudson, what did you do after you
graduated from the Women Street?
>> I went to visit my uncle.
I got a chance to go with that.
>> Why don't you tell me a little bit
about your army experience?
>> Well, my army experience has been a wonderful.
In charge very much.
And that was signed 25th infantry.
>> Now you went into the 25th infantry
about right after World War I?
>> After I ran away from off [inaudible] I got with
a bunch and we all went to basketball.
And then after we got to several camps in
the base and there
was a chemical argument about who gave you permission.
So they helped [inaudible] to get together.
I went to my army and pass
[inaudible] and she said
I'm not going to tell your mother.
I'm going to help you get in.
So she gave me a note to give the camp.
So when I got back,
I went on, know all right.
I went to training,
all kinds of training.
Very fine. I enjoyed,
would never go anymore out of my life.
So I asked her
to take the vacation
and went around and she came back with the note.
And then I began to get little experience.
All kinds of classes,
most in the day.
And after the class,
could ask some people.
I could do about nine or something.
So I find an amazing [inaudible]
So that meant to go to the lift.
And I was a scout
they trained me but
I still practice scout in the afternoon.
So one fifth, they had instructed.
So I probably made a grade and became a very fine.
And I original BTU in Douglas.
And then, BTU Shine.
I had to make a band and I went
to Washington Normal Medical School six months.
>> Which instrument did you play?
>> Actually, I played the French talk.
And play the Trumbo.
Then I played look,
the brakes, and I taught to brag.
The trombone was mine.
So I played and taught.
So I have experience in Mexico.
It was quite a while.
I Went to school in T M ban and Shin.
Man and Dugas Arizona.
Back when the person was kidnapped.
You remember something like that?
She played the car.
And I was introduced there.
And I was fine.
And all of the school.
And in the bands most seriate.
And I was in the band in Italy.
>> During World War two?
>> I was in the and after
Presto in the botanic with the parts.
And I went to the band in Naples.
I went to band in Rome.
And with the band in Pizza
, during the war.
With German, French, and Australia.
The been quite a few voices.
>> Tell me who the 96 blacks were?
>> Well, 96 you take the leader.
Fred Thompson Hoskins,
I gave his name last time.
I didn't have it with me,
but I gave his name, Fred Thompson.
And I forget the Hutchins.
They were in the 25th and went to Tuskegee.
And they was with the 9906. That's it.
And they became the second.
It was called the Black people.
And the Germans called the Red Tail.
>> When does the Germans call?
>> I never did get to know.
But they called Red Tail.
And I met Jorge and German.
And I had the pinch and my team.
>> There are many changes,
but the biggest one is that we
have to growth or progress.
And certainly we have progress come a long way.
But one of the one of the changes has taken place.
Yes.
Economically world.
>> Yes.
>> And that, and I attribute that to Lockheed.
Playing Cam.
>> The standard of living?
>> The standard of living has changed. I changed greatly.
When Lockheed came,
the average salary for
a black woman was about $708 a week.
Okay. Wasn't very good,
but I wasn't very good.
I consider for those who had to do domestic work.
And I was a domestic worker at that time.
And that was all the long.
I worked I had a job making eight dollars a week.
And I was the maid,
the cook, the washwoman and everything.
And I was proud of my job.
And I worked hard to keep that job.
When Lockheed came,
that changed the picture.
I was able to get a job I have.
At that time I had five children.
And I used to long for
the day to come or the time to come when
my children could have shoes.
>> Okay.
>> And I was able to.
And when I started working at Lou,
I was able to pay up my bills.
And I consider that a great accompany.
>> Do you remember about how much you
got paid at Bell Aircraft?
>> My my first tip was $32 and some odd cents.
>> You must have felt good.
>> I did. And I was able to
do the things for my children
that I had always wanted them to have.
>> What did you do in Bell Aircraft?
>> I worked in the finishing department.
And we finished the materials
that they put into the plane.
And we had to work on them.
We used steel and wood,
to finish some of the materials.
Okay. And then we would dip the material
into fat in some kind of solution.
And then when they brought them to our department table,
you take rub that material
for pieces with some steel wood.
It was very interesting wood.
It was something that we enjoyed doing and then it
would give us a little knowledge
on how to finish material.
So I can say we were learning too.
>> When Bell Aircraft closed down after the war,
did you find that wages had generally
gone up and other types of employment?
>> Yes. Wages had gone up and continued decline.
And when Bell Aircraft closed down,
I had a job working in a Cafe.
And I went from that,
to life and chance.
I have been back for ten years and I moved on to another.
And I've been able to move along ever since.
And I think that was one of the best things that come,
and that got the ball rolling.
>> Doctor Jackson, you came here
about 1960, I believe it was.
Where were you from originally?
>> That I was called to this church,
August August 6, 1960.
My home is in Atlanta, Georgia.
I formerly passed to
the First African Baptist Church in Brunswick, Georgia.
And I came here from there.
I grew up in Atlanta.
I went to Washington High School and I went to
elementary school in
Atlanta Washington High School in Atlanta.
Finished my College.
I went to Gammon Theological Seminary.
>> And then you went to
Brunswick for a while and then you were called here?
>> Yes. And then in Brunswick.
>> This Zion Baptist,
what denomination is it affiliated with?
>> We are affiliated with
the general Missionary Baptist Convention of Georgia
and that is the largest Black organization in Georgia.
We have over 600,000.
Black Baptists in Georgia.
Mainly, Black.
We have we have some scattering of white members,
but it is basically a Black church Convention.
And that convention is affiliated with
the National Baptist Convention,
USA, which is basically black with six million.
The largest black denomination.
>> Well, now, at the time that you came here,
the church, of course,
was the church across the street.
And that's a very nice building architecturally,
but it's a lot smaller than the sanctuary here.
About how many members were there in the church?
>> I believe at that time,
approximately 75-100 members and
in the church they were probably
more but when I came here,
the church had had
some division with the former pastor and he had left
and I think scattering of the members
followed him to set up another church in the community.
And of course, that took a little bit away from
the number that we're talking about.
>> But for that building, 75-100 members?
>> It was a sound solid membership.
And it did a fundamentally a good sound Baptist Church
even back there then.
>> Would you say a little bit about
the types of activities that
Zion Baptist Church has been involved in community?
>> Well, our church get involved in every with
while activity in the community
because we feel that we're a community church.
Now, when I came here,
design for one thing you
had people indicate from all walks of life,
but you had folks in here like Deacon Woods and
then Mr. Ruffo was a principal,
you had mainly a high
school and elementary school principal
that was serving here and
serving on the board of Deacons.
And that always make you have
a group that sensitive to the social needs.
You don't find it so difficult to
get over a social message.
We have people like that involved
in the church where they're concerned about it.
So this church has been involved in the NWACP,
it has been involved in
the civil rights movement led by Dr. King,
because I worked with Dr. King in
Atlanta before I came here,
I was involved with him in the civil rights movement with
Jess Hill who was leading it out of Atlanta at that time.
And the voter registration in Atlanta,
when I came here,
the members of this church was concerned and were
already working in NWACP
and we helped Dr. King we have
a little ministerial alliance that
we were going at that time.
And during Dr. King's sale month March,
the ministers of this community got together some money,
to help feed and sleep the people
who were going to march and they asked
me because I had worked with him in Atlanta to
carry it down to his headquarters
in Atlanta and give it to him.
And also during the time that he had his convention.
The South Eastern leadership,
Dr. King was the head of it
and enjoy and we met at Wheat Street.
So this church has been involved in that it has been
it is involved and in this community.
It was involved in the first Blackman raised,
we helped him and Mr. Blackman.
>> That's for the city County Council?
>> Yeah.
>> Was Mr. Blackman a member of this church?
>> No, he was not a member,
but our church when the idea is good,
we go after it and support it. That was a good idea.
It was a good time and Mr.
Blackman didn't lose but by very few votes.
Then Mr. Holmes well,
came on in there right Deacon Woods and we supported him.
And when you grove he came in, we supported him.
We've supported both mayor.
Well, started with Mayor Appleton,
he would come to this church and he
was friend to us and he did a lot of things,
and I think he undertook
the urban renewal project
because I would talked with him.
I told him over there in Baptist Town,
it was such a mess over there until
somebody is getting killed
over there every Saturday night.
There was a death over there and
we said I talked about it.
>> No police protection?
>> Nothing over there. You had a lot
of real estate folks making a lot of
money off of poor black folks
over in there that still had our houses,
tore the south down and yards,
and that started that
and I remember we were getting a lot of
opposition from Blacks because
the White real estate companies were putting
the pressure on some of the Black folks,
but Mayor Appleton told me he said I'm
going to stay with it and we're going to clean up.
We're going to clean up that area.
And he stayed with it.
And you got a nice area I'm talking about
full circle where you have
all those nice houses and things.
That was a church and I was involved in that.
We were involved in
the first integration of Mittal High School,
two of the members of this church,
daughters were the first two Black students
to go to Mittal High School.
Katherine Reed's daughter and Margaret Dev's daughter.
And I went with more of that there was no problem,
but it was all arranged just
like they would arrange where
the police department took
plans and and all of that and outlined the route.
And that was the beginning of the integration.
>> What year was that?
>> It was in the '60s.
I'd have to look up really.
>> So two students went one year?
>> They opened it up Margaret Dev's
daughter who was a member here
and Katherine Reed's daughter.
>> Okay. And then they
eventually closed down Lemon Street High School.
I understand it too and
then all Black students went to Merrett,
but what you're talking about is before that?
>> Yes. I'm when they
first integrated Mittal High School.
You had Lemon Street and then you had Merrett.
And now, when they closed down Lemon Street,
for one was opposed to it.
And I discussed it with some of my members.
Some of the reason they gave me
was where you don't live in me Merrett,
you don't have any children.
This is something thinking, but a preacher,
wherever he is whether he lives there or not,
he's concerned and he has a right.
And so I'm in opposition to it and then
the next argument that was brought to me was that well,
it takes more money by having
Lemon Street High School but
I thought that we want to lose
something when we lost Lemon Street High School,
and I'm sitting to that we did lose something.
Also, when we lost Lemon Street.