1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,070
>> I'm not sure.

2
00:00:02,070 --> 00:00:03,840
Well, don't let me
forget where I put them.

3
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,080
>> I would do that and I
would sit right on them.

4
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,440
[LAUGHTER] I forget they're
on my head half the time.

5
00:00:11,510 --> 00:00:16,780
So what we'll do is we'll
just start at the beginning,

6
00:00:16,780 --> 00:00:19,360
and then you just free
flow and tell me what

7
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,620
you want to know and what
you think is important.

8
00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:26,980
Because that's the focus of
this whole project is to tell

9
00:00:26,980 --> 00:00:29,580
the story through the eyes

10
00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:32,890
of the people who have
not told that story.

11
00:00:33,710 --> 00:00:36,480
So it's to me, to the heroes,

12
00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:38,380
and the herons of the
movement because you all

13
00:00:38,380 --> 00:00:40,620
just did it not for fame or

14
00:00:40,620 --> 00:00:45,380
glory or for financial gain or

15
00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:47,640
any type of fame but because you

16
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,225
described yourself as a
foot soldier and undaunted.

17
00:00:51,225 --> 00:00:55,450
>> Yeah, that's what
I am to this date.

18
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,620
>> Are you rolling? So
let's start back at

19
00:00:58,620 --> 00:01:01,220
the beginning and talk
to us about where you

20
00:01:01,220 --> 00:01:03,280
were born and where
you grew up and

21
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:04,940
how that might have influenced

22
00:01:04,940 --> 00:01:06,470
how you ended up at Spelman.

23
00:01:06,470 --> 00:01:09,880
>> I was born in Los
Angeles, California,

24
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,600
and my parents moved
to Springfield, Ohio,

25
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,080
when I was two years old,

26
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,080
but I still claimed
California as my birthplace.

27
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,700
But I spent my formative
years in Springfield and

28
00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:25,780
my grandmother had
a kindergarten in

29
00:01:25,780 --> 00:01:29,000
her home and she taught me
to read by the age of four.

30
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,280
So I've been reading ever since.

31
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,180
And in the second grade,

32
00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:37,790
my parents took a position
at Tuskegee Institute,

33
00:01:37,790 --> 00:01:40,270
and we moved to Alabama.

34
00:01:40,270 --> 00:01:43,010
And I went to

35
00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:46,690
elementary school and high
school here in Tuskegee.

36
00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:48,950
And when I finished high school,

37
00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:51,230
I went to Spelman College.

38
00:01:51,230 --> 00:01:55,030
I had a scholarship to
Fisk and went to Spelman.

39
00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:58,455
But the recruiters,

40
00:01:58,455 --> 00:02:02,620
Mrs. Henderson and Ms.

41
00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:07,440
Brazil came from Spelman
and they showed a film.

42
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,040
And on this film, there was

43
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,160
a pretty girl who
was on a ladder.

44
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,160
She was in a play on the stage,

45
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,840
and I said, that's
where I want to go.

46
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,180
And so my parents took me
to Spelman to visit and

47
00:02:19,180 --> 00:02:23,080
the campus was very small
compared to Tuskegee Institute,

48
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,305
which is 5,500 acres.

49
00:02:26,305 --> 00:02:29,425
Spelman was just a little oval.

50
00:02:29,425 --> 00:02:31,720
But I liked the atmosphere,

51
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,100
I liked the young
ladies who were there,

52
00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,460
and I especially
liked the theater,

53
00:02:36,460 --> 00:02:39,100
which was about half
the size of this room.

54
00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:42,110
But still, they produced
wonderful plays.

55
00:02:42,110 --> 00:02:45,200
And once I got to Spelman,

56
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,685
I made three very close friends,

57
00:02:47,685 --> 00:02:51,310
Blondean Orbert, Betty Darden,

58
00:02:51,310 --> 00:02:53,095
and Phyllis Umpstead,

59
00:02:53,095 --> 00:02:57,915
and we remained friends
throughout our years at Spelman.

60
00:02:57,915 --> 00:03:00,410
And they called us
the Four Queens.

61
00:03:00,410 --> 00:03:03,540
Why? I don't know, but
hey, we accepted that.

62
00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:09,310
And on this particular
day, we were sophomores.

63
00:03:09,310 --> 00:03:13,165
It was in October and
I had just turned 19.

64
00:03:13,165 --> 00:03:16,125
And we were sitting
in the cafeteria,

65
00:03:16,125 --> 00:03:18,575
and we were having
one of these meals.

66
00:03:18,575 --> 00:03:21,290
We called it mystery meat.
We didn't know what it was.

67
00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:24,010
And then we had one of
these pink chiffon pies.

68
00:03:24,010 --> 00:03:25,570
We called that air pie.

69
00:03:25,570 --> 00:03:27,130
And we were just laughing and

70
00:03:27,130 --> 00:03:28,970
talking about our day in class.

71
00:03:28,970 --> 00:03:31,875
And through the door comes
Herschelle Sullivan.

72
00:03:31,875 --> 00:03:33,585
I'm pretty sure it
was Herschelle.

73
00:03:33,585 --> 00:03:35,550
But she was tall and elegant.

74
00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:37,090
She had just come
back from Paris

75
00:03:37,090 --> 00:03:39,450
and we just thought
the world of her.

76
00:03:39,450 --> 00:03:42,570
I can to this day remember
her fingernail polish.

77
00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:44,290
It was just beautiful.

78
00:03:44,290 --> 00:03:46,990
So she came in and she
made this announcement.

79
00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:51,190
She said there's a campus-wide
meeting this evening,

80
00:03:51,190 --> 00:03:54,055
all university centers,

81
00:03:54,055 --> 00:03:58,020
in Giles Auditorium,
six o'clock.

82
00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:01,890
Be there. And so we
looked at one another.

83
00:04:01,890 --> 00:04:03,840
And immediately, now this

84
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,460
is just to show you
how silly we were,

85
00:04:05,460 --> 00:04:07,695
we immediately thought,

86
00:04:07,695 --> 00:04:11,550
university-wide, that
means cute guys.

87
00:04:11,550 --> 00:04:14,250
So we said we are
going to this meeting.

88
00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:16,070
We went back to our dormitory.

89
00:04:16,070 --> 00:04:17,470
We had a suite in

90
00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:20,570
Packard Hall with two
bedrooms and our own bath.

91
00:04:20,570 --> 00:04:23,050
We were just living
a life that year.

92
00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:25,250
And so we got all dressed up.

93
00:04:25,250 --> 00:04:26,770
We would say all gussied up.

94
00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:30,270
We put on our makeup and
earrings and everything.

95
00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,120
We exchanged clothes.
Let me wear this.

96
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,900
No, I'm going to wear that.
And we went to this meeting.

97
00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,400
But I think we
were late because,

98
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,850
by the time we got there,

99
00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:41,360
there were no seats, so

100
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,755
everybody was just
standing around.

101
00:04:43,755 --> 00:04:45,630
And in my book,

102
00:04:45,630 --> 00:04:48,020
I say that we saw
some cute guys.

103
00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:49,630
But before we could get to them,

104
00:04:49,630 --> 00:04:52,045
the meeting started
so there we were.

105
00:04:52,045 --> 00:04:54,360
And they said we have

106
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,060
assembled you here and these
are the student leaders.

107
00:04:57,060 --> 00:05:00,150
This was Lonnie
King, Herschelle,

108
00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:06,100
Rosalyn, and probably
I guess Amos Brown.

109
00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:07,920
I don't remember who
the other guys were,

110
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,820
but I do remember Lonnie King.

111
00:05:09,820 --> 00:05:11,505
And they were serious.

112
00:05:11,505 --> 00:05:14,325
They just had these
expressions on their faces,

113
00:05:14,325 --> 00:05:16,220
and so we were thinking,

114
00:05:16,220 --> 00:05:19,800
what is this about?
And they told us.

115
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,155
And there had been a sit-in

116
00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:25,330
in April the previous semester,

117
00:05:25,330 --> 00:05:27,435
but the people were hand-picked

118
00:05:27,435 --> 00:05:29,550
and it was not very successful.

119
00:05:29,550 --> 00:05:31,390
So when they told
us that this was

120
00:05:31,390 --> 00:05:33,710
going to be a sit-in
the following day

121
00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:36,035
and it was open to
anyone who wanted to

122
00:05:36,035 --> 00:05:39,090
participate, that's good.

123
00:05:39,090 --> 00:05:41,290
So they said, now,
if you want to

124
00:05:41,290 --> 00:05:45,515
go to jail for six months,

125
00:05:45,515 --> 00:05:47,860
go to the right
side of the room.

126
00:05:47,860 --> 00:05:52,500
And the library in Giles
Hall was not very large,

127
00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:53,920
but there were not

128
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,760
that many students in our
schools in those days.

129
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,580
And if you want to help,

130
00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:00,320
but you're not willing
to go to jail,

131
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:01,900
you go to the left side.

132
00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:06,440
So two of my
roommates and myself,

133
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,065
we went to the right side.

134
00:06:08,065 --> 00:06:10,280
And we looked around
and our other roommate

135
00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:11,640
was over there on the left,

136
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,290
and we just filed that
in our brains for later.

137
00:06:17,290 --> 00:06:19,830
And so they explained
to us what was going to

138
00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:23,030
happen and told us to go
back to the dorm and pack.

139
00:06:23,030 --> 00:06:24,850
We had very big purses

140
00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:27,170
back in those days like
what we have today.

141
00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:28,970
And they said you pack
everything you're

142
00:06:28,970 --> 00:06:30,950
going to need in your purse,

143
00:06:30,950 --> 00:06:32,410
put your books together,

144
00:06:32,410 --> 00:06:33,850
we'll come and get
them later because

145
00:06:33,850 --> 00:06:36,025
you will be in jail
for six months.

146
00:06:36,025 --> 00:06:39,460
And you will still be
responsible for your coursework.

147
00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:42,240
And so that night in my book,

148
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,080
I tell about how we had

149
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,140
a marathon hair-doing
session because we

150
00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:50,620
didn't know when we were going
to the hairdresser again.

151
00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:54,600
And so we got our hair washed
and fried and curled up

152
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,580
and laid our clothes out for

153
00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:58,880
the next day and packed
our little bags.

154
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,020
And we were excited,

155
00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:02,380
but I think we all said

156
00:07:02,380 --> 00:07:04,100
our prayers before
we went to sleep

157
00:07:04,100 --> 00:07:05,980
because we didn't know
what the next day

158
00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:07,780
was going to involve.

159
00:07:07,780 --> 00:07:09,940
So we got up early that morning,

160
00:07:09,940 --> 00:07:15,850
got dressed and primped and
made up and combed our hair,

161
00:07:15,850 --> 00:07:18,590
went to breakfast,
and then went over to

162
00:07:18,590 --> 00:07:20,330
the AU Center and
we assembled in

163
00:07:20,330 --> 00:07:23,150
front of Trevor Arnette Library.

164
00:07:23,150 --> 00:07:28,510
And they told us to join hands
in the form of big circle,

165
00:07:28,510 --> 00:07:31,350
I think, and must have been

166
00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:36,190
Amos Brown who prayed and then
we sang We Shall Overcome.

167
00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:40,790
And Lonnie told us said Marilyn,

168
00:07:40,790 --> 00:07:43,025
you and Blondean go and
to get in that car,

169
00:07:43,025 --> 00:07:45,790
and we got in the car
in the back seat.

170
00:07:45,790 --> 00:07:49,020
And the next thing, I remember,

171
00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:52,050
I don't remember
riding to Rich's,

172
00:07:52,050 --> 00:07:54,180
I don't remember
getting out of the car,

173
00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:58,860
I don't remember that
we went to snack bar,

174
00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:02,820
all I remember is when we
went up to the sixth floor,

175
00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:05,400
the Magnolia Tea Room and

176
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,600
stood in front of that
place that I had passed by

177
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,400
numerous times when
my dear mother

178
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,480
and my Great Aunt
Cora would take me to

179
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,880
Rich's because that's
where you bought

180
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,420
your evening gowns if you were

181
00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:20,180
a queen and I was always
some kind of a queen.

182
00:08:20,180 --> 00:08:23,300
And we passed by this
Magnolia Tea Room,

183
00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:24,600
and there are these
little ladies

184
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:25,560
with their hats and gloves.

185
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,505
Now, we wore our
hats and gloves too,

186
00:08:27,505 --> 00:08:29,260
but that day, we did not.

187
00:08:29,260 --> 00:08:31,160
I think we've decided that no,

188
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,275
we're not going to
be ladies today.

189
00:08:33,275 --> 00:08:34,880
We're going to be women.

190
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,980
We're not wearing
hats and gloves.

191
00:08:36,980 --> 00:08:38,700
But we would see
them sitting there

192
00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:42,150
with the tablecloths
and the shine.

193
00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:44,780
It may not have even
been real, but to us,

194
00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:47,290
it just seemed like a fantasy,

195
00:08:47,290 --> 00:08:49,440
and we wanted to
be in there too.

196
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,595
So we passed, stood at the door,

197
00:08:52,595 --> 00:08:55,440
and one of the waitresses,

198
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,480
I imagine came to

199
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,280
the door and she said,
what do y'all want?

200
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,440
I remember this very well.

201
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,840
And one of us,

202
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,380
I don't know if it were
me or someone else said,

203
00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:09,500
we just want to be served.

204
00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,110
Well, you know we
can't serve y'all.

205
00:09:12,110 --> 00:09:14,280
We don't serve negroes in here.

206
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,665
And somebody later on
made a joke and said,

207
00:09:17,665 --> 00:09:19,920
well, I don't want a nigger.

208
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,120
I just want a meal. But
we didn't say that.

209
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,275
We were not comedians.

210
00:09:23,275 --> 00:09:26,140
We didn't say that.
And she said, well,

211
00:09:26,140 --> 00:09:29,860
I'm going to have to call
the police. And she did.

212
00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:33,420
And in the twinkling of an
eye, the policeman was there,

213
00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:37,400
the Chief of Police
and a uniformed cop.

214
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,120
And they told us to
go to the elevator.

215
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,740
They escorted us
to the elevator.

216
00:09:41,740 --> 00:09:43,420
I do remember the
ride down because

217
00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:45,660
we were cramped in the elevator.

218
00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:50,160
And then the doors
opened to the street.

219
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,380
And I saw the camera.

220
00:09:52,380 --> 00:09:55,100
Now, I will admit
I saw the camera.

221
00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:57,155
And I'm a theater student,

222
00:09:57,155 --> 00:09:59,440
and Dr. Burroughs always said,

223
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,180
when you see the light,
go to the light.

224
00:10:01,180 --> 00:10:04,400
If you see a camera,
Marilyn, go to the camera.

225
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,140
So I saw the camera.

226
00:10:06,140 --> 00:10:06,500
>> You did?

227
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:09,440
>> I did. But the
look on my face,

228
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,940
that was not acting.
That was real.

229
00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:16,020
And Blondean was short and
she was behind Reverend King,

230
00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:17,880
but her purse is still

231
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,280
a testimony to her
having been there.

232
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,495
And there are other pictures
of Blondean in the car.

233
00:10:24,495 --> 00:10:26,765
I don't remember the ride.

234
00:10:26,765 --> 00:10:29,690
But I do remember

235
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,260
it was the city jail that
they took us to first.

236
00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:37,320
And we were packed
into a little room

237
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,120
and everybody had a dime,

238
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,040
and you had to call your parent.

239
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,520
And so I called home,

240
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,520
and it must have been
lunchtime because

241
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,480
my dad would come home for
lunch 12:00 every day.

242
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,960
Let's eat. So he was at home.

243
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,020
And I said, Daddy, guess what?

244
00:10:54,020 --> 00:10:56,060
He said, What is it, Patty?

245
00:10:56,060 --> 00:11:00,145
I said, I'm in jail. He
said in jail for what?

246
00:11:00,145 --> 00:11:04,655
I said, well, I've been arrested
in the sit-in movement.

247
00:11:04,655 --> 00:11:08,060
That's okay. Then he called.

248
00:11:08,060 --> 00:11:09,740
He said, talk to your mama.

249
00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:13,010
I said, oh. [LAUGHTER]

250
00:11:13,010 --> 00:11:15,440
And of course, she
burst out into tears,

251
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,965
but that was my one phone call.

252
00:11:18,965 --> 00:11:21,695
>> Why do you think she
burst out into tears?

253
00:11:21,695 --> 00:11:25,820
>> Because in those days when
a black girl went to jail,

254
00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:29,720
you were exposed to
any and everything.

255
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,280
You could be raped, you could

256
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,720
be beaten, you
could be tortured.

257
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,015
They had no idea what to expect.

258
00:11:35,015 --> 00:11:37,280
And that was, I think,

259
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,990
what was going through her mind.

260
00:11:38,990 --> 00:11:41,360
And her best friend
later told me

261
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,490
that she went over to her house,

262
00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:45,380
they lived two doors apart,

263
00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:49,040
and she had to be consoled
by her friend who said,

264
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,070
I don't know what
to say about Patty.

265
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:54,780
She just has a mind of her own.

266
00:11:55,210 --> 00:11:57,260
She's in jail.

267
00:11:57,260 --> 00:11:59,645
What am I going to
do? So her friend,

268
00:11:59,645 --> 00:12:04,715
Aunt Bill consoled her
and she did survive.

269
00:12:04,715 --> 00:12:08,825
>> So that very famous photo of

270
00:12:08,825 --> 00:12:11,210
Lonnie King and then you

271
00:12:11,210 --> 00:12:12,920
and Dr. Martin Luther King

272
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,525
and then Blondean
[phonetic] behind him,

273
00:12:14,525 --> 00:12:16,745
you mentioned the
look on your face?

274
00:12:16,745 --> 00:12:17,090
>> Yes.

275
00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:20,030
>> And some of my students have

276
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:23,165
interpreted that look
as just determinism?

277
00:12:23,165 --> 00:12:25,415
And some of my students
have interpreted that look

278
00:12:25,415 --> 00:12:28,265
as just righteous indignation?

279
00:12:28,265 --> 00:12:28,850
>> Both.

280
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:29,810
>> Both.

281
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:34,865
>> And that is because of my
background and my book that.

282
00:12:34,865 --> 00:12:39,110
I think my working title is
Daughter of the Revolution.

283
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:40,880
I come from a long line of

284
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,830
revolutionaries and black
activists in their own realm.

285
00:12:45,830 --> 00:12:48,290
And having grown up
in Tuskegee during

286
00:12:48,290 --> 00:12:50,780
the civil rights days
that people don't know

287
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:52,310
that much about the fact that

288
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:55,460
we fought against [inaudible].

289
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:58,280
And because of the legal
battles that were fought with

290
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,740
the Tuskegee Civic
Association and

291
00:13:00,740 --> 00:13:04,070
the mass meetings that I
used to attend as a child,

292
00:13:04,070 --> 00:13:07,430
and Martin Luther King
was one of our speakers,

293
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:11,150
the legal documentation led to

294
00:13:11,150 --> 00:13:14,705
the Supreme Court's decision
on the Voting Rights Act.

295
00:13:14,705 --> 00:13:17,585
It was not just the march
across the bridge in Selma,

296
00:13:17,585 --> 00:13:19,610
it was the leg work and

297
00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:22,970
the brains and skill
of Tuskegee people.

298
00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:25,250
So that was in my background.

299
00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:27,080
The Montgomery boycott was going

300
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,550
on pretty much at the same time.

301
00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:32,350
And my parents would

302
00:13:32,350 --> 00:13:35,185
take my sister and me
to Springfield, Ohio,

303
00:13:35,185 --> 00:13:36,880
in the summer and we spend

304
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,830
the whole summer with
our grandparents,

305
00:13:38,830 --> 00:13:40,315
Reverend Mrs. Smith,

306
00:13:40,315 --> 00:13:44,445
and my granddaddy was a choir
director and a minister.

307
00:13:44,445 --> 00:13:46,325
So we had activities

308
00:13:46,325 --> 00:13:48,350
all summer long and
had a good time,

309
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:50,525
but on the trip, well,

310
00:13:50,525 --> 00:13:53,000
if we took the train,

311
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,675
it was segregated,

312
00:13:54,675 --> 00:13:57,920
but if my parents drove,

313
00:13:58,650 --> 00:14:02,620
there were no facilities for

314
00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:04,450
black people until you got

315
00:14:04,450 --> 00:14:07,180
maybe up to Cincinnati, if then.

316
00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:09,495
It was a long trip

317
00:14:09,495 --> 00:14:13,820
and it was quite embarrassing
and humiliating.

318
00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:15,920
And I'm just going to say this,

319
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,380
to have to open both doors and

320
00:14:18,380 --> 00:14:21,545
squat down and relieve yourself.

321
00:14:21,545 --> 00:14:24,410
And inevitably,
you get a drop on

322
00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:26,120
your socks or your tennis shoes

323
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,665
or whatever you were wearing,

324
00:14:27,665 --> 00:14:29,690
but that's what
we had to endure.

325
00:14:29,690 --> 00:14:31,430
And I just didn't like that.

326
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:35,090
And then the idea of these
signs that said whites only.

327
00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:36,665
And I remember the

328
00:14:36,665 --> 00:14:39,065
Montgomery train
station because we did

329
00:14:39,065 --> 00:14:41,060
take the train sometimes

330
00:14:41,060 --> 00:14:43,265
going to Springfield
or coming back.

331
00:14:43,265 --> 00:14:47,210
And the train station just
appeared to be so beautiful.

332
00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:48,740
I look at it now, it was not,

333
00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:50,585
but it appeared that way.

334
00:14:50,585 --> 00:14:52,370
There were marble floors and

335
00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:56,450
chandeliers and gold
looking trimmings,

336
00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:58,430
but we couldn't go
in there and it was

337
00:14:58,430 --> 00:15:00,185
a spacious facility,

338
00:15:00,185 --> 00:15:01,550
but on the other side,

339
00:15:01,550 --> 00:15:05,570
there was a very little place
where people were cramped

340
00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:07,400
in because it seemed
like they were

341
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,445
more black folks on
the train than white.

342
00:15:10,445 --> 00:15:12,500
And the benches were hard,

343
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,510
the water fountains were dirty,

344
00:15:14,510 --> 00:15:18,350
the toilets were nasty
and it just left you with

345
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:23,420
an impression that this
is good and you're bad,

346
00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:25,220
and I would not accept that.

347
00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:28,250
And our teachers, our
parents, our churches,

348
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:31,130
all instilled in
us that you are as

349
00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:33,590
good or probably better

350
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:36,470
than anyone else and
don't you forget it.

351
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:39,885
And so we had that
spirit here in Tuskegee.

352
00:15:39,885 --> 00:15:42,835
And when the opportunity
came to do something,

353
00:15:42,835 --> 00:15:47,665
and being in jail for
six months seemed like

354
00:15:47,665 --> 00:15:49,930
a small price to pay if it was

355
00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:52,890
going to move us toward freedom.

356
00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:54,800
And so that was the
look on my face

357
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,440
and I mean that to this date.

358
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,825
I would not change
that for anything.

359
00:15:59,825 --> 00:16:05,480
>> So you were in jail
through I think the 24th.

360
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,820
So you weren't at Sisters Chapel

361
00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:10,340
the night they had that big
prayer service for you-all.

362
00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:12,230
Do you remember
anything about that or

363
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:15,005
hearing about that at all?

364
00:16:15,005 --> 00:16:18,170
I know that there were
several ministers and

365
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:21,260
Spelman students who had
not gone to the sit-in.

366
00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:22,610
And at Sisters Chapel,

367
00:16:22,610 --> 00:16:24,440
they gathered and had

368
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,360
this big prayer service and sang

369
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,880
songs and called out your names.

370
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,210
And you weren't there

371
00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:34,700
because you were one of
the last ones released,

372
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,830
I think on the 24th.

373
00:16:38,350 --> 00:16:42,755
Do you have any thoughts
or experiences of

374
00:16:42,755 --> 00:16:44,870
friends who supported you
in that way who maybe

375
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:47,045
didn't go to jail,

376
00:16:47,045 --> 00:16:49,070
but supported you in other ways?

377
00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:51,380
>> Well, my friend Blondean,

378
00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:53,330
she was in jail with me,

379
00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:57,260
but Betty told me recently,

380
00:16:57,260 --> 00:16:58,820
because I've just started asking

381
00:16:58,820 --> 00:16:59,840
people about where were you?

382
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,310
What did you do? And I thought

383
00:17:01,310 --> 00:17:03,425
everybody was like me,
but they were not.

384
00:17:03,425 --> 00:17:05,060
And so Betty, well,

385
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:06,590
she came down the next day.

386
00:17:06,590 --> 00:17:08,915
She had volunteered,

387
00:17:08,915 --> 00:17:12,005
but she was not arrested
until the following day.

388
00:17:12,005 --> 00:17:13,580
And of course, Phyllis

389
00:17:13,580 --> 00:17:16,235
stayed at the school
and she helped.

390
00:17:16,235 --> 00:17:18,860
She worked. And I

391
00:17:18,860 --> 00:17:21,770
spoke with some classmates
at our 55th reunion,

392
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:26,570
and I said, well, what did
you-all do during the sit-ins?

393
00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:30,005
And one girl said,
I prayed for y'all.

394
00:17:30,005 --> 00:17:31,670
I said, you did what?

395
00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:34,610
She said, I prayed for y'all
because my daddy told me

396
00:17:34,610 --> 00:17:36,320
that he would lose his job

397
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,390
if I went down there
and got arrested.

398
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:40,865
And these were girls
from the city.

399
00:17:40,865 --> 00:17:44,210
Evidently, the group
that I was with,

400
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:45,590
that was what they did.

401
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:46,865
They were very supportive,

402
00:17:46,865 --> 00:17:48,905
but they were not going to jail.

403
00:17:48,905 --> 00:17:51,110
>> And Herschelle
said something very

404
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:53,600
similar when she
was talking with us

405
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,790
because she said it was

406
00:17:55,790 --> 00:17:59,900
harder for the
Spelman students who

407
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,450
were from the City
of Atlanta to openly

408
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:06,320
participate because their
parents would lose their jobs.

409
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,370
>> That's right.

410
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:13,040
>> And those who did I think
they were braver than we

411
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,900
were because they had to fight

412
00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:18,335
their parents and do what
they felt was right,

413
00:18:18,335 --> 00:18:21,320
but now, when we got to jail,

414
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,025
we were moved from the city
to the Fulton County jail,

415
00:18:25,025 --> 00:18:28,085
that is an experience
I will never forget.

416
00:18:28,085 --> 00:18:29,165
>> Why is that?

417
00:18:29,165 --> 00:18:30,890
>> Oh, my goodness.

418
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:34,205
I can still hear the
clanging of those doors.

419
00:18:34,205 --> 00:18:36,350
I can still hear that.

420
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:42,290
They were just clang shut with
such a loud brutal noise.

421
00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:44,300
They let you know you're

422
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:46,475
not getting out of
here until we say so.

423
00:18:46,475 --> 00:18:48,080
And they would clang shut and

424
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,165
then there were bells
that would ring,

425
00:18:50,165 --> 00:18:55,130
but the most humiliating
thing was the toilets.

426
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:57,725
There were no partitions.

427
00:18:57,725 --> 00:19:00,500
The showers, no partitions.

428
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:03,800
So you had to do everything
in front of everybody.

429
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,155
And in my book,

430
00:19:06,155 --> 00:19:11,735
I tweaked things to say that
Blondean just freaked out.

431
00:19:11,735 --> 00:19:12,980
She could not take a shower

432
00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:14,555
with everybody looking at her.

433
00:19:14,555 --> 00:19:16,010
And so my roommate and I,

434
00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:19,190
we formed a barrier around
her so that she could,

435
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:24,290
but for a Spelman girl,

436
00:19:24,290 --> 00:19:26,330
you're standing there totally

437
00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:28,355
nude in front of other people.

438
00:19:28,355 --> 00:19:30,200
And we were just sophomores.

439
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,630
We were very pure and dainty.

440
00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:37,520
We were virgins, so we had

441
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,450
never shown our
bodies to anybody,

442
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:43,550
much less to another woman.

443
00:19:43,550 --> 00:19:47,915
>> And it wasn't just the
Spelmans who were in that.

444
00:19:47,915 --> 00:19:48,635
>> No.

445
00:19:48,635 --> 00:19:50,450
>> You and regular inmates.

446
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:52,760
So you were in with
people who who were

447
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,460
in for violent crimes,
I would imagine.

448
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:57,980
>> The lady whose bed

449
00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:00,575
was next to me had
killed her husband.

450
00:20:00,575 --> 00:20:04,880
And she had become friends
with one of the trustees,

451
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,740
which was nice to know because

452
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:08,330
the trustee would
come and get her up

453
00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:09,890
in the middle of the night and

454
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:11,870
I guess they would
go to wherever.

455
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:14,135
And she could get
anything she wanted.

456
00:20:14,135 --> 00:20:16,610
There was a wagon that would
come around with snacks,

457
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:17,660
but you had to have money.

458
00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:20,780
That's why when you said
Norma had a receipt,

459
00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:22,505
I said, well, she had money.

460
00:20:22,505 --> 00:20:26,720
The rest of us we didn't have
much money to buy snacks.

461
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,325
We had to eat the food.

462
00:20:28,325 --> 00:20:30,140
>> What was that like?

463
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:32,990
>> It was horrible. I think
it was like oatmeal for

464
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:37,020
breakfast and beans for lunch.

465
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:41,420
It was not good food,

466
00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:47,585
but the inmates had
a nice attitude.

467
00:20:47,585 --> 00:20:50,180
They wanted to know
why were we in jail?

468
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:53,675
What's you nice college
girls doing in here with us.

469
00:20:53,675 --> 00:20:55,670
And we explained to
them what we were

470
00:20:55,670 --> 00:20:57,890
doing and they said, oh.

471
00:20:57,890 --> 00:21:00,290
I know they were thinking
that doesn't make much sense,

472
00:21:00,290 --> 00:21:01,730
but if that's what
you want to do,

473
00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:03,830
and that's why you're
in here, okay.

474
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:09,605
And there was one
magazine in the day room,

475
00:21:09,605 --> 00:21:11,480
they had some tables and chairs,

476
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,060
one magazine with no cover.

477
00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:18,200
I think it was a true
romance magazine and

478
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,235
it had been read so many times
that it was quite ragged.

479
00:21:22,235 --> 00:21:25,250
And there was a jigsaw puzzle

480
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:28,040
with two or three pieces left.

481
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,020
And that was it for
their entertainment.

482
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:32,000
They had absolutely nothing.

483
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,830
And by this time,
our books had been

484
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:35,510
brought to us and so some of

485
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:39,110
us tried to help inmates
learn how to read better,

486
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:41,960
they they had rudimentary
reading skills.

487
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,555
And others of us taught them
how to dance the Madison.

488
00:21:47,555 --> 00:21:50,240
And we passed away the time.

489
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,730
And then we talked
and asked them about

490
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:55,805
their lives and got to
know them a little better.

491
00:21:55,805 --> 00:21:58,340
And there was one
woman in particular

492
00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:00,530
that I remember because she

493
00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:05,355
had on some house shoes that
were obviously not hers.

494
00:22:05,355 --> 00:22:06,880
She had a small foot and

495
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,135
a large shoe and she
just shuffled along.

496
00:22:10,135 --> 00:22:13,325
And I thought that was like
a metaphor for her life.

497
00:22:13,325 --> 00:22:17,870
She was a small
person in a big mess,

498
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:24,230
but we were there for three
nights and four days,

499
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:29,310
and we thought we would
be there much longer.

500
00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:31,980
And then the call came.

501
00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:34,920
They asked the leaders to go out

502
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,345
and to another room.
And they had a meeting.

503
00:22:39,345 --> 00:22:41,835
We didn't know what
the meeting was about.

504
00:22:41,835 --> 00:22:45,180
But of course, we
were interested.

505
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:47,890
And when they came back,

506
00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:53,355
they said, well, they're
going to let us out of jail.

507
00:22:53,355 --> 00:22:55,290
And they were very disappointed.

508
00:22:55,290 --> 00:22:58,050
They were very sorry
about this. We were not.

509
00:22:58,050 --> 00:23:01,605
[LAUGHTER] So they told
us to pack up our things

510
00:23:01,605 --> 00:23:04,860
and they opened
the clanging doors

511
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:07,200
and there were buses
waiting for us.

512
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,670
We got on the buses
and they took

513
00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:10,740
us to Paschal's Restaurant.

514
00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:13,680
Now, if you know what Paschal's
Restaurant used to be.

515
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,345
I don't know what it is today,

516
00:23:15,345 --> 00:23:16,800
but that's where
my parents would

517
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,060
take me when they'd come to pick

518
00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:19,380
me up at the end
of the school or

519
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:21,180
they come to see me in a play,

520
00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:23,490
and you'd have that
shrimp cocktail

521
00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:25,830
and then you'd have
a steak and oh boy.

522
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:28,500
So we got to Paschal's
Restaurant and they had us in

523
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:32,340
a big dining room and
the fried chicken,

524
00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:35,490
the best in the world was
already on the table.

525
00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:39,015
[LAUGHTER] We were so excited.

526
00:23:39,015 --> 00:23:41,040
But the leaders, they said,

527
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,610
you see there, they tricked us.

528
00:23:42,610 --> 00:23:47,225
They knew that we were going
to accept to leave jail,

529
00:23:47,225 --> 00:23:49,445
and they already had
this prepared for us,

530
00:23:49,445 --> 00:23:51,125
and they were very upset.

531
00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:53,240
And that's why I say
I was a foot soldier

532
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,580
because I was happy to
see that fried chicken.

533
00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:58,680
[LAUGHTER]

534
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,905
>> Well, so what was that like?

535
00:24:01,905 --> 00:24:06,030
I mean, it's hard for
people in my generation,

536
00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:09,960
especially to understand what
that had to have been like.

537
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,840
So to do what you
did that one day at

538
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,810
Rich's and then that night
in jail and then jail,

539
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:18,570
jail, jail, and then
expected them just to

540
00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:22,450
go back to being a
college student.

541
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:27,090
>> We didn't think
about it like that.

542
00:24:27,090 --> 00:24:29,565
In fact, we didn't really

543
00:24:29,565 --> 00:24:32,190
start thinking about
this until later.

544
00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:34,920
I think it was a
traumatic event that

545
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,190
we pushed to the
side of our minds.

546
00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:40,680
And then the more we
thought about it,

547
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,375
the more we thought,
you know what?

548
00:24:42,375 --> 00:24:45,165
We were young and very foolish.

549
00:24:45,165 --> 00:24:49,485
But if we had to do it
again, I think we would.

550
00:24:49,485 --> 00:24:55,920
>> Did you realize at the
time how that one day at

551
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,470
Rich's and what you did changed

552
00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:00,060
the entire presidential election

553
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:01,530
and changed the
course of history?

554
00:25:01,530 --> 00:25:03,630
>> No. We did not realize
that until we went to

555
00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:06,875
that reunion and Lanny showed

556
00:25:06,875 --> 00:25:09,590
a video of one of
the gentlemen who

557
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:12,920
had worked with
President Kennedy.

558
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,400
And he explained how

559
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,180
that process brought about
the election of JFK.

560
00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:23,680
We had no idea.

561
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:29,220
I already had great
respect for Dr. King.

562
00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:31,590
But when I realized that he

563
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:34,845
knowingly put
himself in jeopardy

564
00:25:34,845 --> 00:25:39,195
because he had some
ticket and this was

565
00:25:39,195 --> 00:25:41,700
two strikes against him and they

566
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:44,580
sent him to
Reidsville Work Farm,

567
00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:46,200
where they probably planned to

568
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,480
work him to death or kill him.

569
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,430
And his wife called
Robert Kennedy and

570
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:55,365
he convinced his brother

571
00:25:55,365 --> 00:25:58,410
to speak out and let
Martin out of jail.

572
00:25:58,410 --> 00:26:00,690
And as a result, the Black folks

573
00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:03,450
voted for him and he
became the president.

574
00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:08,535
But no. We never knew that
until quite recently.

575
00:26:08,535 --> 00:26:11,130
>> And that's one
of the things it's

576
00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:12,900
so interesting to me how

577
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,920
that one pivotal act of

578
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,750
non-violence just
to feel included,

579
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:23,220
just to say we just want to be

580
00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:25,770
served just like
every human being,

581
00:26:25,770 --> 00:26:27,090
we just want to be here, how

582
00:26:27,090 --> 00:26:30,840
that one act changed history.

583
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,280
And you were so young and
that one act [OVERLAPPING]

584
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,470
>> We were young, but we
were old souls and we

585
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:40,230
carried the struggles
of our parents.

586
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:42,270
We had seen them humiliated.

587
00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:44,460
I had seen my mother stopped by

588
00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:48,270
a policeman for really nothing.

589
00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:50,985
Usually on the trip
to Montgomery,

590
00:26:50,985 --> 00:26:55,470
a state trooper would stop
her and ask for her license.

591
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:58,845
And on her license, she
had to have her full name.

592
00:26:58,845 --> 00:27:01,200
And so her name was Woodia.

593
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,120
And he would look at the license

594
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,395
and call her by her first name.

595
00:27:04,395 --> 00:27:06,510
Now, Woodia, don't
you know you ran

596
00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:09,330
that red light or you
ran that stop sign?

597
00:27:09,330 --> 00:27:11,760
And he continued to call
her by her first name,

598
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,490
which back in those days
was very humiliating.

599
00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:18,120
And on her cards
that she used when

600
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,270
she shopped at Rich's
or at Montgomery Fair,

601
00:27:21,270 --> 00:27:22,695
which is now Dillard's,

602
00:27:22,695 --> 00:27:24,870
she would use the initials

603
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:27,330
of my daddy and
Mrs. E. L. Pryce,

604
00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:29,835
so they could not call
her by her first name.

605
00:27:29,835 --> 00:27:33,420
And so we had experienced
that and we had

606
00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:37,830
a kind of rage that
was controlled.

607
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:40,570
And then at Spelman,

608
00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:45,470
we sang songs in Chapel
that I realize now,

609
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:48,170
and I use excerpts from
some of these songs,

610
00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:52,620
that they gave us the
spiritual courage to

611
00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:54,990
take this action once
to every man and

612
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:58,440
nation comes the
moment to decide.

613
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:04,090
And we sang those songs and
they became a part of us.

614
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,380
But like I said,

615
00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:11,160
I did not realize the
significance until well,

616
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,425
I noticed that my father
kept that picture

617
00:28:13,425 --> 00:28:16,440
on the baby grand piano
in his living room.

618
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,660
And every time someone
would come to visit

619
00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:21,690
him or come to buy
a piece of his art,

620
00:28:21,690 --> 00:28:23,295
he would point to that picture

621
00:28:23,295 --> 00:28:24,915
and brag about his daughter

622
00:28:24,915 --> 00:28:28,605
who was arrested in the
Atlanta student sit-ins.

623
00:28:28,605 --> 00:28:31,725
So I said, well, that must
have been important to him.

624
00:28:31,725 --> 00:28:35,790
Let me do more research
about what really happened.

625
00:28:35,790 --> 00:28:39,870
And that's when I started
writing my book because I

626
00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:43,035
remember some things very

627
00:28:43,035 --> 00:28:44,910
vividly and other
things I forgot,

628
00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:46,650
but then Blondean would fill me

629
00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:48,555
in or Betty would tell me about.

630
00:28:48,555 --> 00:28:53,640
Blondean told me about going
first to the snack bar.

631
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,810
I blanked that out.

632
00:28:57,110 --> 00:29:00,285
But there are so few of us left

633
00:29:00,285 --> 00:29:03,585
now that what you're
doing is very important.

634
00:29:03,585 --> 00:29:05,475
I really appreciate this

635
00:29:05,475 --> 00:29:09,870
because I would tell my
students and they would be

636
00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:12,645
amazed because they thought that

637
00:29:12,645 --> 00:29:18,705
the world as it
was prior to 2016,

638
00:29:18,705 --> 00:29:21,210
they thought that it had
always been that way.

639
00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:25,300
And they wondered why our
generation hadn't done more.

640
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:27,825
>> Then they didn't know.

641
00:29:27,825 --> 00:29:28,380
>> They didn't know.

642
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:29,955
>> They didn't
know what you did.

643
00:29:29,955 --> 00:29:32,250
>> And we didn't
validate what we had

644
00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:35,115
done because we didn't
know how important it was.

645
00:29:35,115 --> 00:29:37,230
And being in Tuskegee,

646
00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:40,680
we know about Tuskegee's
history and contributions,

647
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,030
but not too much about

648
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:44,910
Atlanta and the
student sit ins there.

649
00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:47,955
>> So tell me a little
bit more about your book.

650
00:29:47,955 --> 00:29:52,170
I'm interested. And what
is what are you writing?

651
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:55,230
>> I'm writing a story of

652
00:29:55,230 --> 00:30:01,230
my life and making connections
between the lives of

653
00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:08,940
my grandparents and my parents
and my Great Aunt Cora and

654
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:12,750
I'm trying to show
how of what some

655
00:30:12,750 --> 00:30:16,770
of their actions
led to my action.

656
00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:17,910
And on the cover,

657
00:30:17,910 --> 00:30:21,520
I hope to use that
iconic photograph

658
00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:23,880
because they told stories.

659
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,120
I'm I'm from a family
of storytellers and

660
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,590
all of their experiences
were transferred to me.

661
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:33,630
My grandmother
would tell me about

662
00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,480
her father and his history.

663
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,760
And I didn't know much about

664
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,575
my paternal grandparents until

665
00:30:46,575 --> 00:30:49,410
my father was pretty much on

666
00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:53,580
his death bed and
he began to talk.

667
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:57,090
And all of this information

668
00:30:57,090 --> 00:31:00,000
came forth and I knew
nothing about it.

669
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,190
And still I knew very little

670
00:31:02,190 --> 00:31:04,860
about my paternal grandmother.

671
00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:06,780
I knew that she was a creole

672
00:31:06,780 --> 00:31:09,720
from Burtondale, Louisiana,

673
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,790
and that his father had

674
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:14,205
started a pharmacy
in Lake Charles,

675
00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:16,965
and we still had family
in Lake Charles.

676
00:31:16,965 --> 00:31:20,805
And then he moved his
family from Lake Charles,

677
00:31:20,805 --> 00:31:22,125
his younger children,

678
00:31:22,125 --> 00:31:23,880
to Los Angeles and opened up

679
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,775
two pharmacies in
South Central LA,

680
00:31:26,775 --> 00:31:30,550
which at that time was a
very nice place to live.

681
00:31:30,550 --> 00:31:33,740
So there were three
Pryce's pharmacies

682
00:31:33,740 --> 00:31:37,640
and that's quite a heritage.

683
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,350
I took my grandson back to

684
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:41,105
Lake Charles a
couple of weeks ago,

685
00:31:41,105 --> 00:31:42,380
we visited our cousin,

686
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:43,975
Dr. Frank Pryce,

687
00:31:43,975 --> 00:31:47,520
and he and his organizations and

688
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,080
his friends were instrumental in

689
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,225
getting a street named Pryce.

690
00:31:51,225 --> 00:31:55,080
And it goes from where the
drug store used to be, well,

691
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,045
the facility, the
building is still there,

692
00:31:57,045 --> 00:31:58,800
all the way down to the lake.

693
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,360
So when you go to Lake Charles,

694
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,780
you can drive up a street
named for my family,

695
00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:05,835
and it's a wonderful feeling.

696
00:32:05,835 --> 00:32:07,320
I love Lake Charles.

697
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,005
I've only been there
three times in life.

698
00:32:10,005 --> 00:32:12,165
So that is part of the research,

699
00:32:12,165 --> 00:32:15,495
and I told you about my
grandfather who was considered

700
00:32:15,495 --> 00:32:19,545
white but chose to be black.

701
00:32:19,545 --> 00:32:22,410
So I decided to
reconstruct the history

702
00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:25,395
of why he would make
such a decision.

703
00:32:25,395 --> 00:32:27,090
And I'm happy that he did

704
00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:29,265
because I wouldn't
be here otherwise.

705
00:32:29,265 --> 00:32:32,650
But then on my
grandmother's side,

706
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,210
in those backwoods of Louisiana,

707
00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:41,760
there was a lot of race mixing.

708
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,060
So I had DNA,

709
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:49,125
and my daughter who's
an epidemiologist,

710
00:32:49,125 --> 00:32:50,655
she said, Mama, you should never

711
00:32:50,655 --> 00:32:52,245
have given them your DNA.

712
00:32:52,245 --> 00:32:54,480
I said, Well, now you
tell me she said,

713
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,360
because now they can tailor-make
a disease just for you.

714
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,980
I said okay.

715
00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:02,130
But in my DNA,

716
00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:10,470
I'm 50-51% African and

717
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:15,105
a few points Native Americans.

718
00:33:15,105 --> 00:33:17,970
And the rest is Caucasian.

719
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:20,475
So I said, wait a minute.

720
00:33:20,475 --> 00:33:23,670
Shoot me. You mean
I'm half white?

721
00:33:23,670 --> 00:33:29,325
[LAUGHTER] I told my physician
that, he just laughed.

722
00:33:29,325 --> 00:33:30,840
He's Nigerian.

723
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,040
He said, Ms. Hoyt,

724
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,380
are you kidding me? I said, no.

725
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:36,795
>> No. That's funny.

726
00:33:36,795 --> 00:33:38,355
>> It is very funny.

727
00:33:38,355 --> 00:33:41,610
And the way I had to tell him,

728
00:33:41,610 --> 00:33:43,050
I would not have said that,

729
00:33:43,050 --> 00:33:45,705
but I'm a cancer survivor.

730
00:33:45,705 --> 00:33:49,350
And I'm going into
my third year.

731
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:52,365
And so I shared that with him.

732
00:33:52,365 --> 00:33:54,660
And he said, yes,

733
00:33:54,660 --> 00:33:58,290
but he said you have
whatever it is.

734
00:33:58,290 --> 00:34:00,945
Said this is not the form
that Black women get.

735
00:34:00,945 --> 00:34:05,950
I said, Well, that's
because I'm half white.

736
00:34:05,950 --> 00:34:08,905
But you know what? I
think about things.

737
00:34:08,905 --> 00:34:12,490
Well, I've always been
a religious person ever

738
00:34:12,490 --> 00:34:15,370
since I was a child
because my grandmother,

739
00:34:15,370 --> 00:34:19,750
Miss Joseph Fant Smith would
speaking in Springfield.

740
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:22,270
She was educated and people
would call on her as

741
00:34:22,270 --> 00:34:25,135
a speaker in their
organizations.

742
00:34:25,135 --> 00:34:27,130
And she would take me with her.

743
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:29,185
And I would open up.

744
00:34:29,185 --> 00:34:31,120
I'm four or five years old.

745
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,240
I would recite a poem
or a Bible verses.

746
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,300
And so they taught
my grandfather

747
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:39,010
and mother taught
me the books of

748
00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:40,720
the Bible and Bible verses,

749
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:43,465
I grew up in the Sunday
school up there.

750
00:34:43,465 --> 00:34:49,300
So I've been searching
for God for all my life.

751
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:52,435
And I've been through
various religions

752
00:34:52,435 --> 00:34:57,700
and denominations and now I'm
back in the Baptist Church.

753
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:00,220
So I guess you could say
I've been looking for

754
00:35:00,220 --> 00:35:01,870
God in all the wrong places,

755
00:35:01,870 --> 00:35:03,925
but he always had me.

756
00:35:03,925 --> 00:35:06,820
And one time my
mother was driving in

757
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:10,150
Springfield and her car
stopped at a red light.

758
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:14,010
And the light turned green
and car would not start.

759
00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:16,140
Now people were
honking their arms

760
00:35:16,140 --> 00:35:19,290
and I was still four years old.

761
00:35:19,290 --> 00:35:23,765
And I said, Mama, let us pray.

762
00:35:23,765 --> 00:35:26,500
And I said, I will
lift up eyes unto

763
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:29,170
the hills from whence
cometh my help.

764
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:32,740
My help cometh from the Lord
who made Heaven and Earth.

765
00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:35,110
And I said, now start your car.

766
00:35:35,110 --> 00:35:37,090
And she did, and of course,

767
00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:38,770
the car took off.

768
00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:40,285
>> And you were how old?

769
00:35:40,285 --> 00:35:40,750
>> Four.

770
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:44,350
>> Four. So what
you said earlier,

771
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:45,775
you were born an old soul?

772
00:35:45,775 --> 00:35:47,360
>> Yes.

773
00:35:48,930 --> 00:35:51,295
>> That's interesting.

774
00:35:51,295 --> 00:35:53,140
>> And we're having
a family reunion

775
00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:55,915
two weeks from today.

776
00:35:55,915 --> 00:35:58,300
And I'm very excited when I go,

777
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,180
they asked me to tell the
stories of the old folks.

778
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:03,400
And now, of course,
I'm one of them.

779
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,665
But these are the ancestors.

780
00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:07,690
And their stories
were transmitted to

781
00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:10,390
me by my maternal grandmother.

782
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:14,020
And those stories
are very dear to

783
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:15,970
me because they go all the

784
00:36:15,970 --> 00:36:18,505
way back to the time
of our enslavement.

785
00:36:18,505 --> 00:36:26,085
Although neither of my great
grandfathers was enslaved.

786
00:36:26,085 --> 00:36:29,235
And I just put that
together recently.

787
00:36:29,235 --> 00:36:30,965
And that makes a difference.

788
00:36:30,965 --> 00:36:33,010
And especially in Louisiana,

789
00:36:33,010 --> 00:36:37,855
they had the Jean de Cola
people free people of color.

790
00:36:37,855 --> 00:36:40,210
And there was some of
those in my family.

791
00:36:40,210 --> 00:36:43,840
And that gives them
a certain spirit of

792
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,280
independence and a continued
thirst for freedom.

793
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,610
And that's in to this day.

794
00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:55,510
I've tried to transmit that
to my children and they say,

795
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:57,580
"Mama, yes, you did."

796
00:36:57,580 --> 00:37:00,325
>> Wonderful. So I think too,

797
00:37:00,325 --> 00:37:01,750
that the importance of your book

798
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:03,820
is the research that
you're doing is

799
00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:07,780
keeping those stories alive
for your great grandmother,

800
00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:10,330
for your grandmother,
for your mother.

801
00:37:10,330 --> 00:37:12,760
For all the women
who transmitted

802
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,960
those stories to you and you're

803
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,550
keeping those alive
through this book,

804
00:37:15,550 --> 00:37:17,065
that's going to be wonderful.

805
00:37:17,065 --> 00:37:18,745
>> And I have a cousin,

806
00:37:18,745 --> 00:37:21,775
I call them my baby
cousin in Los Angeles.

807
00:37:21,775 --> 00:37:24,700
We share our grandmother.

808
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,235
It's my grandmother. It's
her great grandmother.

809
00:37:27,235 --> 00:37:29,380
And she's on the same mission.

810
00:37:29,380 --> 00:37:31,510
So we met in Lake Charles.

811
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:34,180
We never met before
I just communicated

812
00:37:34,180 --> 00:37:36,730
online and we just
had a wonderful time.

813
00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:40,840
We went to Franklin where
our grandfather started

814
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,030
a drug store and where he

815
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:45,955
met my grandmother and
her great grandmother.

816
00:37:45,955 --> 00:37:48,280
And we were looking for
the block of buildings

817
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,890
that they used to own and
they've been demolished.

818
00:37:50,890 --> 00:37:52,180
But I took pictures of

819
00:37:52,180 --> 00:37:53,740
some old buildings that looked

820
00:37:53,740 --> 00:37:55,690
like what they might have been.

821
00:37:55,690 --> 00:38:00,820
And she has the same
spirit that I have.

822
00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:06,400
And she's more of an
ancestry.com person than I am.

823
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,360
And I have other
relatives who are very,

824
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,180
they are the kind that
go to the records rooms.

825
00:38:13,180 --> 00:38:17,980
We went in Franklin looking
for property transactions.

826
00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:19,690
She could have stayed
there all day.

827
00:38:19,690 --> 00:38:20,815
But it was lunchtime.

828
00:38:20,815 --> 00:38:24,500
I said, no, we got to go
my grandson is hungry.

829
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,820
I think it is important and

830
00:38:27,820 --> 00:38:30,460
then all the work that
my father has done.

831
00:38:30,460 --> 00:38:33,940
The fact that he taught us from

832
00:38:33,940 --> 00:38:37,510
an early age that Egypt was

833
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:40,555
African and that we
should never forget

834
00:38:40,555 --> 00:38:43,180
the grandeur that
our people once

835
00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:45,760
had and when you
travel over there,

836
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,210
you can still see what
they did and don't let

837
00:38:49,210 --> 00:38:50,320
anyone think that you are

838
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,305
inferior and that
you have no history.

839
00:38:53,305 --> 00:38:55,690
And I remember coming back from

840
00:38:55,690 --> 00:38:58,480
Paris the first time at Spelman,

841
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
and we had a philosophy
teacher who was brand

842
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,300
new and she was scared of us.

843
00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:06,430
She would go into the
classroom when she pulled

844
00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:09,310
her desk all the way
up to the chalkboard.

845
00:39:09,310 --> 00:39:10,300
>> No.

846
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,880
>> Yes. And so she
stood there and

847
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,030
she was quite fatigued,
as we would say.

848
00:39:16,030 --> 00:39:18,700
And she just looked
at us and she said,

849
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:20,860
"What's wrong with you, negroes?

850
00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:23,815
You haven't contributed
anything to society."

851
00:39:23,815 --> 00:39:28,645
Well, she said that
to the wrong person.

852
00:39:28,645 --> 00:39:32,110
The other girls just hung
their heads in agreement.

853
00:39:32,110 --> 00:39:33,985
That's what we were taught.

854
00:39:33,985 --> 00:39:39,100
I had left Paris and had met
the great Cheikh Anta Diop.

855
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:41,200
And I didn't know who he was.

856
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,210
He was in this little cafe

857
00:39:43,210 --> 00:39:47,830
and African students were
just all around him.

858
00:39:47,830 --> 00:39:50,365
Professor Diop you sign this?

859
00:39:50,365 --> 00:39:52,150
I said, "Who is that old man?"

860
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:55,105
And they told me
that is Cheikh Anta.

861
00:39:55,105 --> 00:39:57,310
Now if you don't
know who that is.

862
00:39:57,310 --> 00:40:00,595
You never heard of him?
You need to look him up.

863
00:40:00,595 --> 00:40:06,370
His research was
designed to prove

864
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:09,130
that the ancient Egyptians

865
00:40:09,130 --> 00:40:13,300
migrated from Egypt and went
to other parts of Africa.

866
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:16,240
And they brought with them
some of their language,

867
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:17,815
some of their skills.

868
00:40:17,815 --> 00:40:20,200
And so we are all

869
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,455
descended from the ancient
Egyptians and therefore,

870
00:40:23,455 --> 00:40:26,215
we can claim all the
marvels that they

871
00:40:26,215 --> 00:40:29,530
constructed and their
science and literature.

872
00:40:29,530 --> 00:40:33,220
So he was trying to
get his doctorate

873
00:40:33,220 --> 00:40:37,480
at the at the Saban in 1941,

874
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,100
I believe, and he was denied.

875
00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:41,365
They said, we can't
support this.

876
00:40:41,365 --> 00:40:44,530
You are not about to tell us
and we are the French and

877
00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:47,350
we got the colonies
there Egyptian.

878
00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:48,880
No, Egyptians are white.

879
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,530
That's the end of it. So they

880
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:52,195
did not give him his degree.

881
00:40:52,195 --> 00:40:58,360
He went back and it must
have been in '61 or '62,

882
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,070
when I was there the first time.

883
00:41:00,070 --> 00:41:04,465
He went back and they did
accept his dissertation,

884
00:41:04,465 --> 00:41:05,860
but they did not give him

885
00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:07,540
a high enough grade so

886
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:10,360
that he could become
a college professor.

887
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,850
But his works,

888
00:41:12,850 --> 00:41:15,940
my father had one of his
books and he believed that.

889
00:41:15,940 --> 00:41:17,620
And so in his paintings,

890
00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:19,900
he's got the
symbolism from Egypt.

891
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:22,540
He visited Egypt
at least twice in

892
00:41:22,540 --> 00:41:25,975
his lifetime and all of
that was put into us.

893
00:41:25,975 --> 00:41:28,945
So you did not have a
sense of inferiority,

894
00:41:28,945 --> 00:41:32,005
even though it was
enforced upon you,

895
00:41:32,005 --> 00:41:34,630
you knew within
yourself the problem.

896
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:37,090
And other classmates
didn't know all of that,

897
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:41,755
but still they had the
same feeling of worth.

898
00:41:41,755 --> 00:41:45,865
>> And just to talk about
your father for a second,

899
00:41:45,865 --> 00:41:48,475
the artwork that I see in
your home really draws

900
00:41:48,475 --> 00:41:51,340
on that Egyptian iconography,

901
00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:54,820
but also Ethiopian iconography,

902
00:41:54,820 --> 00:41:58,435
which I noticed in that
the beautiful copper plate

903
00:41:58,435 --> 00:42:00,085
where it had St.
Mark's, I think?

904
00:42:00,085 --> 00:42:01,600
>> Yes. And you saw that?

905
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,015
>> Yes. And so that was inspired

906
00:42:04,015 --> 00:42:07,720
by the Orthodox
church you visited.

907
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,010
>> That's right. When he saw

908
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:12,415
the icons and the paintings on

909
00:42:12,415 --> 00:42:15,640
the walls where all
of the apostles

910
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,170
and I'm not sure that they would

911
00:42:17,170 --> 00:42:19,330
make pictures of Jesus himself,

912
00:42:19,330 --> 00:42:22,630
but everybody had an afro and
everybody was brown skin.

913
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:25,180
So he said, "Oh,
okay, I like that."

914
00:42:25,180 --> 00:42:27,160
And it doesn't really matter,

915
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,995
but in some cases, it does.

916
00:42:29,995 --> 00:42:33,475
>> Yes. And that was
an inspiration for

917
00:42:33,475 --> 00:42:35,215
his art and then in

918
00:42:35,215 --> 00:42:37,390
especially with the
Egyptian iconography,

919
00:42:37,390 --> 00:42:40,510
even as a child, you
were inspired by that.

920
00:42:40,510 --> 00:42:45,460
>> And to my detriment because
I was not good in math.

921
00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:46,930
And so I go to my dad.

922
00:42:46,930 --> 00:42:48,370
I said, "Dad, I
don't understand,

923
00:42:48,370 --> 00:42:50,035
can you help me
solve this problem?"

924
00:42:50,035 --> 00:42:51,865
He wasn't good in math, either.

925
00:42:51,865 --> 00:42:54,010
So he would start going
back talking about

926
00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:55,780
the ancient Egyptians who

927
00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:58,135
invented this and who
did that in mathematics.

928
00:42:58,135 --> 00:43:01,375
I still didn't learn
too much in math.

929
00:43:01,375 --> 00:43:02,830
I tell my grandchildren to

930
00:43:02,830 --> 00:43:06,955
this day I can multiply up
to five, and that's it.

931
00:43:06,955 --> 00:43:08,260
I said, but now you are going to

932
00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:09,760
learn how to multiply
all the way up

933
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,685
to your fifteens and
they just say grandma.

934
00:43:12,685 --> 00:43:14,950
But I'm serious about that.

935
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:18,370
You need to have a good
background in Math,

936
00:43:18,370 --> 00:43:21,640
science, and the arts.

937
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,710
>> And you taught French though,

938
00:43:23,710 --> 00:43:25,285
you were French professor, yes?

939
00:43:25,285 --> 00:43:27,370
>> Until a few years ago.

940
00:43:27,370 --> 00:43:28,855
>> Let's give the age?

941
00:43:28,855 --> 00:43:33,010
>> Thirteen years
at the university,

942
00:43:33,010 --> 00:43:35,140
two years at the high school.

943
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:38,565
And the amazing thing is,

944
00:43:38,565 --> 00:43:40,500
I still don't understand how I

945
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:43,350
remembered the French
that I was speaking

946
00:43:43,350 --> 00:43:45,030
in Paris because there was

947
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:47,040
a long hiatus where I was a stay

948
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,810
at home mom and I was

949
00:43:48,810 --> 00:43:50,790
blessed to be able to
raise my children.

950
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:53,550
I home schooled some of them.

951
00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:58,690
And then when we
moved to Tuskegee,

952
00:43:58,770 --> 00:44:03,070
it was a situation in
which I had to get a job.

953
00:44:03,070 --> 00:44:06,295
And so I found a
job on the campus.

954
00:44:06,295 --> 00:44:09,280
And then I heard about a program
where they were teaching

955
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,730
French to faculty and staff
who were going overseas.

956
00:44:12,730 --> 00:44:14,530
So I volunteered. I said,

957
00:44:14,530 --> 00:44:16,000
hey, I can do this.

958
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,210
And they gave me a
job at lunchtime.

959
00:44:19,210 --> 00:44:21,505
I would go and teach French.

960
00:44:21,505 --> 00:44:25,135
And I just continued.

961
00:44:25,135 --> 00:44:28,450
Now I have French stations
on my television,

962
00:44:28,450 --> 00:44:31,855
so I can watch the
movies and just listen,

963
00:44:31,855 --> 00:44:33,940
I let them play while
I'm asleep and I

964
00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:37,315
absorbed the French and I just
have a good time at that.

965
00:44:37,315 --> 00:44:39,085
And what I really did that,

966
00:44:39,085 --> 00:44:40,945
I think it's amazing,

967
00:44:40,945 --> 00:44:43,225
I got one Masters from

968
00:44:43,225 --> 00:44:45,940
Nova Southeastern and it
was a distance program.

969
00:44:45,940 --> 00:44:50,905
It was an MBA and I'm
not really an MBA,

970
00:44:50,905 --> 00:44:52,540
but it did turn out to be

971
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:55,045
beneficial because
when I married David,

972
00:44:55,045 --> 00:44:58,360
he had this business and I
had sense enough to keep

973
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,685
good records so that

974
00:45:00,685 --> 00:45:04,285
he was able to do well
when he came to Tuskegee.

975
00:45:04,285 --> 00:45:10,525
And one day in August of 2005,

976
00:45:10,525 --> 00:45:12,520
this is what happened, I

977
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,350
had been a consultant
with headstart.

978
00:45:14,350 --> 00:45:17,140
I've done all kinds of jobs.

979
00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:20,635
But I was in between jobs
and I had my own school.

980
00:45:20,635 --> 00:45:24,730
I had an after school
program for 60 years where

981
00:45:24,730 --> 00:45:29,890
I taught students how to
pass the Alabama exit exam.

982
00:45:29,890 --> 00:45:32,110
Without that, you didn't
get a high school diploma,

983
00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:33,610
you couldn't go to the military,

984
00:45:33,610 --> 00:45:34,750
you couldn't get a job,

985
00:45:34,750 --> 00:45:35,935
you couldn't go to college.

986
00:45:35,935 --> 00:45:37,660
And I thought that was unfair.

987
00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:39,490
And so I organized a school

988
00:45:39,490 --> 00:45:41,050
with students on the campus to

989
00:45:41,050 --> 00:45:44,650
teach young people
to pass this exam,

990
00:45:44,650 --> 00:45:48,160
to do the ACT, the
SAT to read, write,

991
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:54,430
compute and I'd had to close
that down because I wasn't

992
00:45:54,430 --> 00:45:57,490
able to make enough
money to pay the rent on

993
00:45:57,490 --> 00:46:03,020
the building that
my husband owned.

994
00:46:03,020 --> 00:46:09,785
[LAUGHTER] But in August
of 2005, the phone rang.

995
00:46:09,785 --> 00:46:13,130
I'm unemployed now,
I'm quite depressed.

996
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:15,590
You're about as depressed
as I'm going to

997
00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:17,615
get because I'm an optimist.

998
00:46:17,615 --> 00:46:20,345
And I'm in the
optimists club too.

999
00:46:20,345 --> 00:46:22,925
Phone rank said miss Hoyt,

1000
00:46:22,925 --> 00:46:25,895
can you come up here and
teach French on the campus?

1001
00:46:25,895 --> 00:46:31,320
Said our teacher just left and
school opens in two weeks.

1002
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,160
Scared to death, I said, sure.

1003
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,455
And I took the job
and I loved it.

1004
00:46:41,455 --> 00:46:42,745
I'm like, wow,

1005
00:46:42,745 --> 00:46:46,045
four classes and you
teach two a day.

1006
00:46:46,045 --> 00:46:47,500
You got office hours,
and then you can

1007
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:49,435
go home. I love this.

1008
00:46:49,435 --> 00:46:52,980
So I took it and it
was just temporary.

1009
00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:54,890
And I asked the department head,

1010
00:46:54,890 --> 00:46:56,780
what do I need to do
to stay in this job?

1011
00:46:56,780 --> 00:46:59,270
She said, well, miss Hoyt
you at least need to have

1012
00:46:59,270 --> 00:47:02,375
a Master's in French
or French education.

1013
00:47:02,375 --> 00:47:05,060
So I went to Auburn University.

1014
00:47:05,060 --> 00:47:10,475
I was 65 years old when
we had to go to Paris.

1015
00:47:10,475 --> 00:47:14,400
I needed 18 hours in French.

1016
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:18,035
I took all the undergrad
courses that I needed.

1017
00:47:18,035 --> 00:47:22,325
I worked on my master's
degree. Went to Paris.

1018
00:47:22,325 --> 00:47:25,775
I remember standing at
the consulate in Atlanta

1019
00:47:25,775 --> 00:47:40,220
and the clerk said [FOREIGN]

1020
00:47:40,220 --> 00:47:43,160
because they put your birth
date on everything over.

1021
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,460
So she saw my birth date
and wanted to know why

1022
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:50,285
I'm going over there as
a student because at 65,

1023
00:47:50,285 --> 00:47:53,840
you have already retired
several years ago.

1024
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,735
And so she was not going
to give me a Visa.

1025
00:47:56,735 --> 00:47:58,100
So I looked her in the eye.

1026
00:47:58,100 --> 00:47:59,570
I said, Madam, do
you speak English?

1027
00:47:59,570 --> 00:48:05,340
[FOREIGN] I said, I'm
going to keep my job.

1028
00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:08,510
I got my visa.

1029
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:12,770
We went to Catholic Institute.

1030
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:17,315
I took three classes and
one independent study.

1031
00:48:17,315 --> 00:48:23,135
I got my 18 hours and
made very high grades,

1032
00:48:23,135 --> 00:48:28,010
which are 16, 17, 18.

1033
00:48:28,010 --> 00:48:29,480
Those are high grades in France.

1034
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,865
You don't get those but I did.

1035
00:48:31,865 --> 00:48:35,895
And so that was a great
achievement for me.

1036
00:48:35,895 --> 00:48:38,440
>> Absolutely. And it
allowed you to have

1037
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,920
this amazing job where
you're teaching French.

1038
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,110
>> And my research was on

1039
00:48:44,110 --> 00:48:48,090
the General
Thomas-Alexander Dumas,

1040
00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:50,930
who was the father
of Alexander Dumas,

1041
00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:53,450
whom I had admired
for a long time.

1042
00:48:53,450 --> 00:48:55,550
But I didn't know that
his father had been

1043
00:48:55,550 --> 00:49:01,010
a general along with Napoleon.

1044
00:49:01,010 --> 00:49:03,110
And in the books, they
will tell you that

1045
00:49:03,110 --> 00:49:04,730
he served under Napoleon,

1046
00:49:04,730 --> 00:49:05,750
but not at first.

1047
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:09,530
He was of Haitian origin.

1048
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:11,510
And in my research,

1049
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:14,030
I learned a lot about
the general and about

1050
00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:17,315
the contribution
of Black soldiers

1051
00:49:17,315 --> 00:49:19,565
to the French Revolution.

1052
00:49:19,565 --> 00:49:23,270
And that is part of what I do.

1053
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:25,520
And of course, in my
father's library,

1054
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,830
there are these
books by JA Rogers.

1055
00:49:27,830 --> 00:49:30,350
You know who that
is? The historian?

1056
00:49:30,350 --> 00:49:31,265
>> Yes.

1057
00:49:31,265 --> 00:49:32,570
>> And I asked my sister,

1058
00:49:32,570 --> 00:49:34,970
why don't they consider
him a historian?

1059
00:49:34,970 --> 00:49:38,700
She said Patty because
everybody couldn't be Black.

1060
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,600
But he gave you the
story of all of

1061
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,190
these people who are

1062
00:49:46,190 --> 00:49:49,820
Europeans and who were Black
who made contributions.

1063
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:56,645
And I just began to dig and
find out about General Duma.

1064
00:49:56,645 --> 00:50:01,160
And the Chevalier
de Saint-George.

1065
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:02,480
And I call both of them

1066
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,480
my boyfriends and
my students laugh.

1067
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,600
>> That's amazing.

1068
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,080
>> So that's a part of
being an old soul, I guess.

1069
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,990
>> Absolutely. So I wanted to
ask you one final question.

1070
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:20,000
And feel free to
share anything you

1071
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,565
want and if you don't want
to share, that's okay too.

1072
00:50:22,565 --> 00:50:25,445
But I wanted really to know

1073
00:50:25,445 --> 00:50:28,640
your thoughts since you
were in your own words,

1074
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,340
a foot soldier of this
important movement.

1075
00:50:31,340 --> 00:50:33,020
And it really was a
civil rights movement,

1076
00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:36,365
but it was a human
rights movement as well.

1077
00:50:36,365 --> 00:50:39,320
I wanted to know your
thoughts like on

1078
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,145
the progress of civil rights
in America since 1960.

1079
00:50:43,145 --> 00:50:45,440
If you just have any general

1080
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,335
emotional or thoughts
or feelings about it,

1081
00:50:48,335 --> 00:50:49,910
I would love to hear them.

1082
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:51,215
>> Well, as I said,

1083
00:50:51,215 --> 00:50:55,770
I was an expatriate until 1966.

1084
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,500
My daughter was
born in Ethiopia.

1085
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:07,730
I came back here
in 68 in October.

1086
00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:09,860
And so many things
that happened.

1087
00:51:09,860 --> 00:51:12,155
Malcolm had been killed,

1088
00:51:12,155 --> 00:51:17,225
Martin, both of the Kennedys.

1089
00:51:17,225 --> 00:51:20,405
And I said things are
happening back home.

1090
00:51:20,405 --> 00:51:21,590
It's time for me to go.

1091
00:51:21,590 --> 00:51:23,900
So I said I'm going back

1092
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:26,360
to get a master's
degree at Howard

1093
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,090
and my husband provided
the funds for my ticket.

1094
00:51:32,090 --> 00:51:36,305
And I'm sitting in the airplane,

1095
00:51:36,305 --> 00:51:38,870
Ethiopian Airlines,
and my daughter

1096
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:41,600
was two years old and
her seat was here,

1097
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,685
but she wanted to sit in my lap.

1098
00:51:43,685 --> 00:51:46,130
So the plane waited
on the tarmac for

1099
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:48,785
about an hour and they just
packed people in there.

1100
00:51:48,785 --> 00:51:51,170
And so the stewards said,

1101
00:51:51,170 --> 00:51:53,720
can I put someone in the seat?

1102
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:55,190
She's speaking in Amharic.

1103
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:58,550
I speak a little Amharic,
kitchen Amharic.

1104
00:51:58,550 --> 00:52:01,460
I said, no, that's
my daughter's seat,

1105
00:52:01,460 --> 00:52:03,800
you can't put anyone in there.

1106
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,905
I was angry by that time.

1107
00:52:06,905 --> 00:52:08,360
I had had enough of being

1108
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,600
a foreigner and I
realized what it meant

1109
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:17,030
to be an American and I was
going home and we flew back

1110
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:24,125
and I spent time with my sister
in law in New York City.

1111
00:52:24,125 --> 00:52:26,585
In fact, she sent a limousine.

1112
00:52:26,585 --> 00:52:29,930
She worked at the organization
of African Unity.

1113
00:52:29,930 --> 00:52:32,615
And she sent a limousine
to pick us up.

1114
00:52:32,615 --> 00:52:35,360
And then I flew to Montgomery

1115
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,300
and my parents met
us at the airport.

1116
00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:39,920
And coming from the airport,

1117
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,395
there was a Jack's
restaurant and they said,

1118
00:52:42,395 --> 00:52:43,550
we're going to
stop here and have

1119
00:52:43,550 --> 00:52:47,510
a sandwich. I said, what?

1120
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:49,895
We can go in there.

1121
00:52:49,895 --> 00:52:53,610
And they said, yes,
where have you been?

1122
00:52:53,710 --> 00:52:56,240
So that's when it dawned on

1123
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:59,810
me that everything had
changed over here.

1124
00:52:59,810 --> 00:53:02,360
And you know once
you've been overseas

1125
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,640
for even a short
time and you come

1126
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,190
back and you try to
explain what you have

1127
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:10,535
experienced to other
people, they don't care.

1128
00:53:10,535 --> 00:53:12,950
But what you realize
is that you have

1129
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:15,260
missed things that happened

1130
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:18,140
while you were away and you've

1131
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:22,110
got to reconstruct
those six years.

1132
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:27,260
And so it was a new
experience for me to be

1133
00:53:27,260 --> 00:53:32,580
in an integrated society
and it was wonderful.

1134
00:53:33,940 --> 00:53:36,215
I didn't know how much

1135
00:53:36,215 --> 00:53:38,795
Atlanta had contributed
at that time.

1136
00:53:38,795 --> 00:53:41,075
I just knew that I had
done a little bit.

1137
00:53:41,075 --> 00:53:43,370
But for everything
to be integrated

1138
00:53:43,370 --> 00:53:46,800
and even the schools
in Tuskegee,

1139
00:53:46,990 --> 00:53:52,385
it was and it still
is a good thing.

1140
00:53:52,385 --> 00:53:59,480
The problem is that we
have allowed society

1141
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,240
to continue to impose

1142
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:06,960
the spirit of inferiority
on our young people.

1143
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:12,950
Inferiority in one sense
and superiority for others,

1144
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:15,815
and we've got to overcome that.

1145
00:54:15,815 --> 00:54:19,160
And I think that with people
like you and people like

1146
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,120
me and others, we
will eventually.

1147
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,940
But it's an uphill climb now

1148
00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:28,940
because the tables have turned.

1149
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:30,740
But they've turned before.

1150
00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:34,160
And people my age look
at these times and say,

1151
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,110
well, we've been through

1152
00:54:36,110 --> 00:54:38,765
tough times before we
can get through this.

1153
00:54:38,765 --> 00:54:44,300
But for the young
people, it's different.

1154
00:54:44,300 --> 00:54:50,225
They don't know hardship.

1155
00:54:50,225 --> 00:54:53,900
And they think that
everything is going to

1156
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:56,750
be all right, but
not necessarily.

1157
00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:58,340
We know that things can change.

1158
00:54:58,340 --> 00:55:00,860
A Supreme Court can
make one decision

1159
00:55:00,860 --> 00:55:04,115
that will change your entire
life. We've been there.

1160
00:55:04,115 --> 00:55:06,365
And it may happen again

1161
00:55:06,365 --> 00:55:08,840
and we have to be
strong enough to help

1162
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,270
this young generation
get through this

1163
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:15,390
and bring about another
change in this nation.

1164
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:18,875
And I think we have to do it.

1165
00:55:18,875 --> 00:55:21,455
So I'm very optimistic.

1166
00:55:21,455 --> 00:55:23,555
>> Those are wonderful words.

1167
00:55:23,555 --> 00:55:24,365
>> Really?

1168
00:55:24,365 --> 00:55:24,995
>> Yes.

1169
00:55:24,995 --> 00:55:27,300
>> And I watch television.

1170
00:55:27,790 --> 00:55:29,960
>> You're still watching.

1171
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:34,130
>> MSNBC watch in the
morning I wake up.

1172
00:55:34,130 --> 00:55:36,080
And I'm a little bit

1173
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,150
upset because now
they seem like they

1174
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:42,485
have to have a Fox News
person on the MSNBC.

1175
00:55:42,485 --> 00:55:44,735
And I'm like, look, if
I wanted to watch them,

1176
00:55:44,735 --> 00:55:46,910
I can flip to Fox News too.

1177
00:55:46,910 --> 00:55:48,320
And then the other thing that

1178
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,330
infuriates me is take a listen.

1179
00:55:50,330 --> 00:55:52,400
No, I don't want
to take a listen.

1180
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,020
So I flip the channel when it's

1181
00:55:54,020 --> 00:55:56,660
time to hear our
beloved president.

1182
00:55:56,660 --> 00:56:00,785
But we will survive. We're
going to get through this.

1183
00:56:00,785 --> 00:56:05,150
And I want to say that you
all are really impressive.

1184
00:56:05,150 --> 00:56:06,695
I love you guys.

1185
00:56:06,695 --> 00:56:09,455
And I don't want you
never think about White,

1186
00:56:09,455 --> 00:56:15,275
Black anymore because
we are human beings.

1187
00:56:15,275 --> 00:56:17,270
We are in the human race,

1188
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:18,830
and that's what counts.

1189
00:56:18,830 --> 00:56:21,440
So don't you feel bad
about anything any more

1190
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,290
than I would feel
bad about anything.

1191
00:56:24,290 --> 00:56:28,190
So I just want to thank you.

1192
00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:31,525
I'm exhilarated to have met you.

1193
00:56:31,525 --> 00:56:33,670
>> I'm blessed and
honored to have met

1194
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:36,130
you and I thank you so much for

1195
00:56:36,130 --> 00:56:40,385
sitting with us and
just talking and

1196
00:56:40,385 --> 00:56:41,960
telling the world
because this is

1197
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,990
going on case to Archive,

1198
00:56:44,990 --> 00:56:48,720
the HBCU are partnering
with us on this.

1199
00:56:49,390 --> 00:56:51,770
They need to be told.

1200
00:56:51,770 --> 00:56:54,965
So I'm exhilarated
about your book.

1201
00:56:54,965 --> 00:56:56,525
I'm excited about your book.

1202
00:56:56,525 --> 00:56:58,955
And I hope that
when you come back,

1203
00:56:58,955 --> 00:57:01,100
when you come to
Atlanta for homecoming,

1204
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:05,570
that you will be a speaker on
a panel for us and that you

1205
00:57:05,570 --> 00:57:10,250
will be able to tell
the stories again.

1206
00:57:10,250 --> 00:57:12,665
Thank you so much.

1207
00:57:12,665 --> 00:57:17,490
>> Let's see if I've got
a little children's book.