>> This is James Newberry,
and I'm here with Joseph Hudson on Tuesday,
December 6th, 2016,
at the Sturgis Library at Kennesaw State University.
And Mr. Hudson, I want to know,
do you agree to do this interview with me?
>> Yes.
>> Well, thank you very much. And could
you state your full name?
>> Joseph J. Hudson Sr.
Am I speaking okay because
my voice sounds like
it's coming through my nose or something.
I got some allergy.
>> Is it you have a hearing aid?
>> No. It doesn't sound like me.
>> Well, it sounds okay to me.
Does that sound good to you?
>> [OVERLAPPING] It sounds good.
>> Very clear. So Mr. Hudson,
what is your birthday?
>> November 27th, 1925.
>> And so you just turned 91?
>> Right.
>> So where were you born?
>> I was born in Jersey City,
New Jersey, raised in Richmond, Virginia.
>> So can you tell me about being born in New Jersey,
but then being raised in Virginia, why is that?
>> Well, that was due to the time.
My mother was working in Jersey City at that time,
and she couldn't keep me there.
And she had to send me back to grandfather,
and he wanted a boy child,
so here I am.
He raised me from,
I think my mother
said I was about six weeks old or something like that.
And from that time on,
I was in Richmond, Virginia.
>> Do you have any idea how your mother felt
about letting her child
go back to Virginia to live with her father?
>> Well, she didn't have
nothing to do with it at that time.
My grandfather raised me down.
And there was nothing that she could do about it.
That was the times that the family she was working for,
I don't know the whole story other than that.
>> So you had
your mother gone to New Jersey to get a job?
>> Yes. Said during that time,
they were Black women had to go north to get,
so to speak, good paying job.
And that was called the nickname
for it was Living on lot.
And that's what she was one of those that went
north to do that, Live on a lot.
And the people would take care of you and everything,
and they pay you.
That's all I can tell you about it.
>> So what work was she doing then?
>> Housework.
>> So tell me about your grandfather's home in Virginia?
>> Well, I can't remember too
much about it from the beginning.
He lived with his wife,
and they raised me,
then I stayed with them until I finished high school.
And when I finished high school,
then I joined the army.
>> Well, can you describe your grandfather's house?
>> That's a story. He was
a farmer in the city.
Actually, he did anything to get some income.
To the best of my knowledge,
he would push your cat around the street,
pick up paper and stuff to help the family out.
And pick up garbage because he had a couple of
hogs out in the city a little town called Bungalow City.
He had a couple of hogs out there,
and he pick up garbage and
we walk out there and feed them every other day,
I think it was or something like
that till hog killing time.
Now, I didn't participate with that.
So I can't tell you nothing about that hog killing.
And that on, was he had.
His wife raised chickens in the town
and I would help her with
the chickens feed them every day, and that was it.
And another time, I was playing up
a storm out in the front yard till grandpa come home.
I mean, when I come from school,
grandpa called me out there playing marbles before
I get out of school before I'd come in the house,
or he would wear me out.
>> So he did he make a good enough living for you to get
by and not struggle too much or did you
feel you were struggling financially?
>> No, he made enough money between him and his wife,
they made enough money to get by.
And as a general rule,
I could tell they didn't weren't extravagant.
They didn't spend a lot of unnecessary money.
But we hadn't made enough to live
off in the days I bought one pair shoes a year.
And so everything went right.
>> Were you affected by the depression?
>> I don't even know anything
about depression at that time.
That's how because of the way we were lived,
and we just don't know about it.
It wasn't a issue.
>> So was Bungalow City inside Richmond?
>> No. Bungalow City,
that's where my mother lived. She lived there.
My real mother when she came back to Virginia,
she lived there and
had some more children and they lived out there.
But that was about two or
three miles outside the city limits of Richmond.
And so that was more or less like a country living.
But where my grandfather lived,
that was definitely a city limits.
>> So can you tell me about the relations
between black and white people in Richmond at that time?
>> Well, it was a situation where you, so to speak,
you just didn't, everything was set
up, things were so set up at that time.
You knew where you were going.
You know what I mean? You know where you're going.
No white people living near you,
or you couldn't come in
contact with white people or neither did
Blacks coming or they
come in contact with us, so to speak.
Everything was in your own community.
And so it just was a situation that stores
and schools and everything was in
the Black community. That was it.
>> So you're saying you had
few interactions with white people.
>> Right.
>> Were there any bad interactions?
>> No. I don't recall any. You said bad react.
>> Anything bad that happened to you?
>> No. The the worst thing
that could have happened was that I can
remember Dilg was captured
during that time in our community.
I just barely can remember Dilg.
I don't know if you.
>> You're talking about John Dilg?
>> That's all I can remember about that
vaguely cause it was in our,
for some reason, he was captured in our community.
I remember that vaguely.
>> So where did you attend high school?
>> I attended high school first,
I went to a town, our school called Magel Walker,
and that was on the other side of Richmond.
And once in a while, I walk it.
It would seemed like to me,
I don't know how far it was,
but I would say it's at least 10 miles,
but we walked it for a little while.
But then we just do that for
a bunch of us to get together and
walk just for the heck of it.
But actually, we rode the streetcar.
Streetcar at that time was $0.07.
And if you had bought school tickets,
it was $0.04,
$0.05 to ride the street car up there and that was it.
>> And what kind of a student were you?
>> Well, I wasn't the best, but I wasn't the worst.
[LAUGHTER]
I always tried to maintain even skill.
I wanted to pass and get it over,
but I did all right.
>> Well, tell me about meeting your wife.
>> Boy, that's something else.
I met my wife on a boat and during that time,
they had a boat that run from
down to James River on the weekends,
excursion like you go down and come back the
same day, and I met my wife on one
of those trips and she was a good country girl
and so we met
and we courted for about a year almost and got married.
I ended up being married.
She became my first wife,
and I was married to her for when she passed.
It was almost 50 years,
we stayed together when she passed.
>> What was her name?
>> Selma Hudson.
Her maiden name was Selma Smith.
>> And you said she was a good country girl.
What do you mean?
>> Well, she loved to cook and that was good.
She loved to cook and take care of
your husband and which is a good thing.
And we ended up having four or five children.
They all lived and in fact,
when I went off to war,
we adopted some more children.
We had adopted, but total number of
children when I came back from the war,
we ended up having about 10 children.
I took care of them and times weren't exactly hard,
but I knew how to spend my money.
When I was not going to I'm not
a spend man to spend money and kept up with the time.
I tried to keep up with what
my income was and that was it.
There was nothing extravagant.
I had no car, and that was it.
>> So can you tell me about y'all's wedding?
>> Like what?
>> What do you remember of it?
Where was it held? Who came?
>> All I can remember
we were married at
her grandmother's house in Richmond, Virginia.
I remember that and that was
it in a little town in a part of a town called Fulton.
That town no longer exists now,
but it was called Fulton and
it's a little part of Richmond,
south part of Virginia at that time.
>> Do you remember
your anniversary the day you got married?
>> I can say this was July in 1943.
>> So it was in the middle of the war?
>> Yeah.
>> And that would have made you about 18?
>> Something like that.
>> I'm going to switch gears here for a second,
and I want to ask you what your memories
of the Pearl Harbor attack are.
What do you remember of that day?
>> I remember that day because I was
a little youngster that would had other kids that
would try to make money on
the sideline and during that days,
I had a bunch of kids that would follow
around with me and the thing
that I used them for was
the newspaper would come out and the people that
contacted me to get a group together a nd sell
papers we call extras that day
and let us go out and sell extras paper for
it and they printed just
for that day of Pearl Harbor bombing.
I remember that distinctly because
I had about 10 kids working from it
and selling the paper and that was it.
I remember that distinctly.
>> So you had gotten an extra that was printed later,
and it said there was an attack on Pearl Harbor.
>> All right.
>> And then you had to deliver that to people's homes?
>> Well, that wasn't part of the delivery time.
That was those where you go out and
sell specially to people.
People bought the papers,
do you think they were selling
for about a nickel of thing.
And anybody wanted paper then you had to buy
paper especially wanted home edition at that time,
but the next day,
you would get the home edition
with it, but for some reason,
I don't quite remember
something came out about 5:00 that evening.
When I had people going and
selling paper, I don't remember,
but I guess they must have had to printed
that morning earlier, you know what I mean?
Sometimes during that day
to have a special edition to going out then,
but that's the way things went during those times,
special paper would be printed
out when they had event to come on like that.
>> So did the older boys at
your school, like the seniors,
did they go sign up to enlist after Pearl Harbor?
>> Not did I recall.
>> So did you notice any change at school or
in your town after the United States got into the war?
>> Not that I can tell.
I just can't remember exactly during that time.
I just don't remember the sequence of,
I can just remember that from
that newspaper thing on and on,
being in school and all, and because I was still in
high school during that time.
>> So what did
you do after you graduated from high school?
>> Odd job. I got married during that time
and odd job, and I tried working
at a place called Richmond Army Depot,
which was about 10 miles outside of the city limits of
Richmond going towards Fort Lee, Virginia.
But I had to have a transportation and I
didn't own a car and and
there was somebody going out that way,
would carry you on a regular basis.
I tried that for a while and then and I got
disgusted join the Army. From that point on.
>> Why did you get disgusted?
>> Trying to ride with somebody.
Transportation, in other words,
the transportation problem was it.
I just didn't want, the money didn't matter to me.
I want to go in the army then
and I was better off financially.
>> So but you did work at
the Army Depot? What did you do there?
>> We packed various parts to be shipped overseas.
You packed them for shipment on a boat,
which meant they had to have special wrapping.
And it just wasn't my speed.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So what did the Army Depot look like?
>> A bunch of
buildings [LAUGHTER] that are just warehouses.
Open warehouses, primarily, and it
wasn't not much about no heat.
They were open warehouses,
and supplies all over
to bring them to your particular area
and just pack them up.
On one side and you finish your you put them
on another side, keep going.
>> And do you remember who your bosses were?
>> No, I don't.
>> What about your co-workers?
>> I don't remember.
>> So you said you worked there for a period of time,
but you couldn't get good transportation.
>> Right.
>> So is that
the time at which you decided to go into the army?
>> Right.
>> So tell me about enlisting in the military.
Why did you choose the Army?
>> Well, the Navy was too segregated.
The only job you could get in this Navy was being
a cook or something
like a valet for officers or something of that nature.
And I wasn't interested in being a valet for nobody.
If I couldn't work as a regular Navy person,
I didn't wanted no parts of it.
And I never give the Marines a thought.
I don't think very few people Blacks joined
the Marines, I believe.
And there was no Air Force like it is now.
The Air Force was a part of the army then in those days.
And I heard about the Tuskegee app thing,
and I tried to get into that,
but my IQ wasn't high enough.
So I didn't make that.
So at the state end enemy,
I just went on for strictly the army.
>> So where did you have to go after you signed up?
>> Fort Lee Virginia,
which was about 20 miles from home
of Richmond and took my basic training there.
And even after basic training,
I went to what we call
second eight weeks of training for specialized training.
And I decided, well,
I'm actually looked at
my IQ so forth and they put me in clerical work.
And I stayed in that field, and I just changed it,
from one type of clerical field to another part of it.
And that's all I did
for the rest of the time and I was in the military.
>> Well, I want to go back.
So you said you went to Fort Lee?
And did you go there and leave your family?
>> Yes. You had to at that time.
There was no such thing as taking your family with
you because they didn't have a rank.
>> How did you communicate with your wife?
>> Phone.
>> By phone?
>> By phone. And she could she could come on base.
And every weekend, they would have a dance,
and at what they
call the service club those days,
I don't know what it is now.
And so the military provided
a music for you, and that was it,
and food. So in Georgia.
>> So [NOISE] the soldiers who were training there,
they could bring their wives or
their girlfriends on into the service club for a dance?
>> And they would have that specially for you.
Because well, when you say service club,
The dance hall would be something different.
That would be another place
that they would set up just to dance.
And then the club in another building adjacent to for,
drink and so forth.
>> And who provided the music?
>> They would always have a band for you.
The club or the military had provided a music for you.
And how did they come up? I don't know.
>> So, tell me about your basic training.
>> That was something else.
Basically, it wasn't too bad now that I'd look over it.
But the usual thing,
running and going under fire,
you going crawling under the barbed wire and
they're shooting over your head and that thing.
You don't know whether it bullets or not,
all you know is that the guns
were going off over your head.
And I remember one incident
where I wanted to go home that weekend.
And so I played like I had been hit.
And so they come
and got stopped everything going and took me off,
carried me to the place,
and they found out I wasn't hit,
and send me loose
and told me going back to the barracks and and I
did that and went to [inaudible] and went
to see my family that weekend, got in trouble.
The MPs picked me up in Richmond.
I stayed in the jail for
overnight and they brought me back to the base.
And my company commander at that time,
his punishment, he didn't, he was a youngster.
He didn't know what to do in the sense of speaking.
He said, had me to stand behind a stove.
I see in those days the barracks
had potbelly stoves to heat the barracks.
And where I was anyway.
And he had me stand behind a stove in the wall.
And then he start
then after he felt that I had been warm enough,
he brought me out to talk to him.
And I told him I thought he was prejudiced.
And he said, I'm not prejudiced.
He says, I said,
why are you doing this to me.
And he told me and through the course of conversation.
I said, he said,
what do you mean by prejudice?
I said, well, he went on to say, it's a racial thing.
And I told him, no, I don't
consider being you prejudiced,
that it's a racial thing.
I said, do you know the meaning of
prejudice? He said, What do you mean?
And I said, well, I asked him,
do you know what it means?
And he went, what does it mean?
And I told him that prejudice means that in my opinion,
prejudice means that you
just not that you don't like anybody or anything,
but your mind is made up on something.
And then you just set on that, and that's it.
And your mind is set to
punish me and you don't know what to do.
[LAUGHTER] He turned me loose then.
And that's on the punishment I got.
>> So was he white?
>> Yeah.
>> Go ahead.
>> We had all white officers.
Mostly all white officers in the military at that time.
Once in a blue moon,
you might find a Black officer.
>> So what did, you and
your fellow soldiers who were going through training,
think about the fact that they were only white officers?
>> We just didn't bother you.
You already used to white people
being everything that you do anyway.
So it didn't bother me anyway.
So I didn't most of us
didn't just take it as a goal. And that was it.
>> So you were talking a little bit about the barracks.
How many soldiers would,
how large was the barrack?
>> I venture to if I can remember right.
Parks was two-storey building,
most of them because they were built in World War II,
just before the war or just when the war started,
it's a two-storey building
with about 36 people
on the first floor and about the same amount on
the second floor and divided up into squads, four squads.
And your NCO slept on the end.
But no officers slept in your building.
>> So what did they serve you in the mess hall?
>> Potatoes every meal.
That was a standard thing.
I don't care which meal you be going.
You always got potatoes. One at each meal.
But it was all right.
I got used to it.
Eggs, pancakes for breakfast.
Chicken every Sunday.
I don't care where you were at the army,
you got chicken every Sunday for dinner.
And the other was whatever,
it was usual good meals.
>> And you said you were assigned to do clerical work?
>> Yes.
>> So when did you get that assignment?
Was it when you were finished with basic training?
>> Yeah.
>> And where were you sent?
>> I was just lucky enough to get
stationed right there in Fort Lee,
Virginia, my first assignment.
And I was in
a supply sergeant in a supply room, a supply clerk.
And so I stayed in the supply field for a long time.
>> What were your duties as a clerk?
>> Assisted supply sergeant,
which was issue clothing or whatever troops need,
and other supplies like, take care of the laundry,
take it to the place the sheets and
things down to the laundry.
As a mass for the whole company at the time,
take it to the laundry, get back another load.
And that was basically it and keep up with your arms.
What I'm talking about is a weapon that you had,
but no ammunition was in the building.
And basically, that was it.
>> Did you have any special privileges
as a supply sergeant?
>> Yeah. You didn't
go through a whole lot of training like
the other soldiers did because they had no more
than a continuation of basic training.
And so you didn't have to go through all that stuff.
Unless you were going on maneuvers and
if you already know what they're going to do,
so there's no problem.
All you do when you go out on the field,
you just issue stuff whatever supplies were needed.
>> So let's talk about heading out for California,
and this is when you're going to ship out.
And how did you learn that you'd be going?
>> What do you mean how are you learned?
>> Did they tell you the day before or?
>> No. They put you on
the train and that because that was wartime.
They put you on a train and told you you were
going out and you were going overseas,
and that's all you knew.
And while you were riding the train,
every city you go through if it was nighttime,
you had to pull the shades down and it
took I think it was about two or three days to
ride from Virginia to California you slept on the train.
And if you weren't used to sleeping beside a man,
you had to do it then because
there were more men than there were bunks.
So you had two people
sleeping up and down on the train in the burs.
>> So you'd be sleeping by somebody's feet?
>> Whatever way you live?
>> So was that sort of uncomfortable?
>> Oh, yeah. But you make out.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So you said you had to pull the shades?
>> Yeah, the windows.
>> Why is that?
>> Well, they didn't want people to see that there
troops on that train moving.
See, a lot of little things during wartime,
for troop movement is supposedly kept a secret.
And you didn't know
where you were going in the first place.
Or you know you were going and you ride for a long time.
But the object of that train to do that.
So people didn't know that so many soldiers were going
because you'd probably have about 10 trucks,
train load of people going,
you see, on a troop train.
And then if you
come time they thought you've been on a train too long,
they'd pull off on the side
where the population couldn't see who it was.
And you get off and exercise a little bit,
and then get back on, keep on going.
>> So you didn't take any regular stops
and go out into towns?
>> No. Then you couldn't do that.
>> Was it only black soldiers on this train?
>> Yeah. There was no mixture of troops at that time,
Blacks and Whites were separated.
>> So there weren't any train cars with
all White soldiers and
another train car with all Black soldiers.
It was just all Black soldiers?
>> No it was all Black or at least when
I was on it was all Black.
>> So what city in California did you ship out from?
>> Oh, that's a hard one.
Because I've been there two or three times.
I think this was San Francisco. I think so.
>> And was there a big send off for
the troops or did you just get on the ship?
>> When you get off to train,
you'd go to a holding area,
and I'm trying to think where that area were riverside
was where this area was that I went to at that time.
And that's where these people would come
in till they had enough to fill up
a boat and I think in the vicinity
of about 3,000 troops would assembled there at a time.
That's enough to get on the type
of ships that we'd be going on
depends on what type of ship you'd be on.
And until when that ship
got sufficient, then you load up.
That's when you found out where you were going.
And they give you a little booklet.
And this book was a language book in short,
and you were supposed to learn that language
in the time you get to the other side.
And I went to India,
but we stopped off and in Australia.
And that was during the time
when Roosevelt died, I remember that.
But we weren't allowed to get off of the ship at all.
We weren't allowed to get off.
We just spent one day in the harbor and that was it.
>> In Australia.
>> Yeah, in Australia.
>> Tell me how did you
learn the news of Roosevelt's death?
>> Well, they kept you informed
on the ship of current events.
They kept you informed of what
they thought was sufficient for you to know.
>> What was the effect on board?
>> Said somebody else died.
>> So there was no special significance of that resident?
>> No. Not death at that time.
The reason I said was like that because we
were practicing the whole time the ship went.
I think it took 20 and some days.
I believe it took about 21 days to go
from California to India.
I think it was about that
because we couldn't go on a straight line.
We had to go zigzagging more or less because of war.
I guess they felt like
they've been sinking ships all along,
you see, and we were just lucky.
We never saw submarine.
>> You said you had a language book?
>> Yeah.
>> What was the language?
>> I want to say Hindu, but I don't remember.
But anyway, what it
was you had the general language that was spoken.
Not all of the dialects that was involved,
there were just one.
And that was what was generally spoken
in India at that time that I can remember.
>> Well, what was life like aboard ship?
>> Oh, boy. I learned to play whist.
I learned to play cards, bridge particularly.
And there's one thing I never learned to do in the army.
For some reason, I cannot understand why I never had
any desire to learn to
gamble and plenty of gambling went on,
but I never learned to gamble.
I just didn't have any desire to gamble.
But I wanted to play two games only.
That two games was bridge and whist.
That's all I was interested in.
And I kept myself on that
and kept that going
even until after I got out of the army?
What were the sleeping quarters like?
>> Bunk at the floor more or less,
and I think it was two bunks above that.
And that's where it was,
stacked up that maybe a foot
apart 'cause they were stacked.
And that's the way it was.
>> Was there a commissary or a place to
buy snacks or cigarettes?
>> Yes. There was something like that on there,
but they had cafeterias.
The funny thing about
it, well, I won't say they're funny,
but the most interesting thing about
eating on a ship in the cafeteria where they feed you at,
you got your food in a tray,
and you sit on the stand table like to eat,
and when the ship is going down,
when the ship's going through the water,
it's reeling and rocking,
the whole way, either up or down or whatever.
And if you weren't careful or if you had to be careful,
when your tray slid on down,
you just ate out the next tray,
[LAUGHTER] or else you held that tray,
and then somebody else gonna bump up against
your tray because you couldn't grab your own tray,
but that's where it was.
And then one thing I did on the ship,
we found the bakery, and boy,
we loved that hot bread when they baking it,
but we found ways to get into that bakery late at night,
and get that hot bread.
[LAUGHTER]
And he was in the Navy,
see, so he knew about all this.
But anyway, we loved to get
that hot bread 'cause you just take a loaf of bread,
and pull it out of that,
that was the best thing that ever happened,
but that was the only thing bad we did.
[LAUGHTER]
>> So you said the trip was about 21 days.
>> I think it was about 21 day.
>> And you landed in India.
What city did you come into?
>> Calcutta.
>> And you were offshore
at first because the ship was too big?
>> They didn't have docking facilities at that time.
You had to get on a raft.
They load up maybe 10-15 people on a raft,
and you just move on over to the shore,
and they unloaded us, and then
trucks waited there for you.
So it'll be about a truckload at time,
and we went to a camp.
The camp that they carried us
to was a Hialeah race track.
My company stayed together,
and we just slept at
this race track unless
we were being split up and going elsewhere,
part of us went to a place
called [inaudible] and part of us stayed in Calcutta.
And Calcutta is this city itself, you see,
but where the camp was,
was about maybe 10 miles outside the city,
but for that night,
we stayed at this race track.
You just pitch a tent and slept out there.
Nice warm climate.
>> Were you able to go into the city of
Calcutta and interact with the people?
>> Not there, no.
They kept you at the base for
about a week or two before they let you go out.
That was like,
you need to be orientated to the weather and all,
I guess, but you didn't go off that base.
And where we were stationed at was outside.
There was an airbase right on the outskirts of Calcutta,
an Army Air Force base,
but we were on the other side of that.
And it seemed like it was a British camp at one time,
but they didn't have housing.
They had offices building for offices, and that was all.
But they had to make tents.
Each tent had,
I think it was four men to a tent.
That's where the base lived.
Mosquito nets and all that sort of thing.
>> Do you know why you were sent to India?
>> Part of us stayed in Calcutta,
and the other part was sent up to [inaudible],
which was further up in
the northern part of India, or Calcutta.
I know it's outside of the city.
But anyway, we had to take
the equipment that was being shipped down.
These airplanes and things that
was damaged or vehicles and stuff that was damaged,
had to go, and what's the best word to say?
You'd take out the good parts and use them again.
And for other parts and the rest of it,
they junked it and sent it on back to the States,
or I don't know
whether they took it to the states or whether
they put in the ship and dump it on the ocean.
>> You were sorting things?
>> Yeah.
>> So shipments would come in.
Where were they coming from?
>> Burma Road. That was the main supply point because
the airbase flew the Burma Road route,
and they were going into
China and the lower part of China somewhere up in there,
and the fighting troops that was in Burma.
To the best of my knowledge,
there was no fighting actually in India.
It was in Burma and ground troops sometime in that fight,
or the Air Force was flying stuff
up on the Burma Road. That was it.
>> So what stuff did you all see come through?
What kind of material?
>> We didn't see that, other
than the supplies that we supplied,
but we wouldn't see nothing else.
We wouldn't see brand new stuff coming from the States.
You didn't see nothing like that stuff.
Wherever the depot was,
they would ship it to there,
and then when a company
needed certain things for a plane or special thing,
the request would come to us first to see if we had
the part that it needed and then go to the depo,
and get stuff coming straight from
the States and go on up the road.
>> So you were
involved only in that or did you have any other duties?
>> No, that was primarily it.
>> So what did you think about India?
>> Pretty town.
[LAUGHTER]
No, at that time, Calcutta was a crowded place.
Even to get on the street car,
people would hang all on the outside,
once they got on the street car, always crowded.
And the transportation,
if you want to ride a cab,
but first of all, they had what they called rickshaws.
That's like a scooter with a man pushing it,
and you riding in that if you
want to ride around, go someplace.
But then the cars, the taxis,
the engine was supplied
by charcoal or something like that.
A miniature furnace on the back of old model cars.
And that's what they used for
transportation for taxis and so forth.
But other than that, that was it.
[NOISE]
>> So did you send
any letters home during
that time? Did you have any contact?
>> The army made sure where you are,
whether you're on the ship or wherever,
they're going to see to it that you get your mail.
Maybe a month later, but you'd get it.
>> And who was sending you letters?
>> Your wife or your family
or somebody, whoever would write to you.
I ain't going to say nothing else.
[LAUGHTER]
Whoever would write to you, you would get it.
You know what I mean. That was it.
>> Well, was there entertainment for soldiers?
What did you do for fun?
>> Anything you could.
[LAUGHTER] Everything you have in the States,
you had it overseas in one way or one version or another.
You just get used to that music and
you'd find places where you
tried to play your style of music.
The Indian people knew enough to accommodate you.
>> But what was your style of music?
>> Well, I wouldn't choice it.
I just play anything.
>> So were there entertainers coming
over from the United States to entertain the troops?
>> Yes. We didn't get that much entertainment
because we were so far out India.
We were so far away from everything.
Mostly, people in Europe or in Japan on the Mainland
was where Bob Hope
and all those type of people would come through,
but most is small troops who
come through or something like that for us.
>> Well, do you remember the end of the war?
>> Vaguely.
>> Do you remember where you were at the time?
>> I was still in India.
>> What was the mood
after you heard about the end of the war?
>> I was joyous because you want to go home.
You see us, when you were drafted in those days,
you were drafted with
the understanding that you would be in
the army until the end of the war,
what they call the duration in six months.
That's where they called it.
And then the same way you come in service,
they drafted you in,
you would go by numbers that would be
pulled to see who would go home next.
And if you were like me,
I had a large family,
I had a lot of points so I
would go home before a guy that had no points,
a single man I would say.
So I would go home early and
that's how you left wherever you were.
And then you get to the States the best way you could.
They were all just a mess thing
from then on until you get back.
If I remember it right,
that's the only time
the troops mixed was when you be on a boat,
coming back to the States,
and when you'd be on
training coming from the West Coast
back to the East Coast.
And then when you got to a certain point in the States,
you'd switch up, Black in one car and Whites in another.
And that's the way it worked.
And then that's the way
they stayed until the train emptied its loads.
You know what I mean? Because they stopped everywhere,
dropping people off, you see.
>> So there was a point at which
White and Black soldiers were mixed in?
>> When you first get on,
but they separated when you got to a certain point.
>> And what was that point?
>> Where would they considered the Northern and Southern?
I don't know. I really don't know.
>> So it was the train maybe going into
a Southern state with a segregation policy?
>> Yeah. I don't remember exactly.
I just don't remember,
but somewhere around Maryland,
I believe, depending on where the train, where it was at.
And you Blacks had to go in one car,
and Whites going in another. That's where it went.
>> So because you had some children and a wife,
you got more points?
>> Yeah.
>> So you were able to get a discharge?
>> No, that was for transportation back to the States,
and I don't remember about the discharge part.
I don't remember.
It may have been hooked up to that too,
I just don't remember.
I just can't remember that part.
>> And you returned to Richmond?
>> Yes.
>> And can you tell me about the work you
did immediately after you got back?
>> I couldn't find no work.
Well, that would work too.
Yes, it was too, because in Richmond,
tobacco factories was the main product there,
and you could always get a job in tobacco factory.
And that because there's several companies were
operating out of Richmond and you always could get a job.
It may not be the one that you
want in particular because
some paid more than the others.
But yeah, you could get work.
>> And what did you do in the tobacco factory?
>> Just common labor.
You just clean up,
help, do anything they tell you to do.
[LAUGHTER]
Nothing in particular.
Unless you had been working on that for a while,
you learned to operate a machine or something like that.
But most of the time, you just
maybe clean up, or something.
>> Now, were you making
enough money to support your family?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So can you tell me about re-enlisting in the military?
>> Well, I joined the reserves shortly after.
Well, they put you in the reserves shortly after that,
and you could either take active duty in
the reserves or be on,
I don't know what you call it now.
You just be in the reserves,
but you didn't go on active,
you didn't go for any training.
But I chose to go on,
the one where you'd go for training every weekend,
I think, or something like that.
I did that for a little while
because I didn't think
I was going to stay out in the street long,
and I turned around and come back in the army.
I think I was out for about,
I don't know about six months or so, and I came back in.
>> Why did you choose to come back in?
>> I was more at home.
[LAUGHTER]
I had been in the army
for I think three years then,
and I just felt more comfortable.
Being home is all right.
If you can see home once a
month or something like that, it's all right.
But you're traveling.
You know what I mean?
Mainly with so many different things, people I know.
So it was much more pleasant than it was. I'm glad.
>> So you'd say you liked being in the army?
So I know that you
tried to qualify for the Officers Training Corps.
>> Yeah.
>> And tell me about that.
>> Well, [LAUGHTER] that's something else.
I tried for that, I got
the initial examination just over it.
But when I went before the Board,
I never forget that,
that was Labor Day in 1944.
I went before the Board,
I think it was for interview,
and they gave me several commands.
And when they said, "I'll give you command."
They would tell you to repeat this command,
and you shout out whatever the command was.
And they told me my voice was too light,
and so I failed to test.
[LAUGHTER] So that was it.
If I had passed that test,
I would have been a second lieutenant
because I had passed everything else.
>> It was because your voice was too soft.
>> Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
>> You couldn't give the commands loudly enough?
>> It wasn't distinctly enough or something.
>> So tell me about Fort Meade in Maryland.
How did you end up there?
>> When I came back into the Army,
I chose to go into Tank Corps
at Fort Meade and take tank training at
Fort Knox because I didn't
want field training in infantry.
And when I finished that training at Fort Knox,
they sent me to Fort Meade to join a Third Cavalry.
And the Calvary is all armored,
it's not horses, and so I joined that.
The Black had a battalion
and one squadron or battalion or something like that,
and the Whites was in the rest of the thing.
And we were separated by name.
We were called a 35th Mechanized Calvary Squadron.
And our job,
in case war started,
was to take tanks.
We had something that looked like a tank,
but it went on water, amphibious.
You would draw a fire,
and that was your job, to draw fire,
and pick out the enemy,
but naturally we never got that.
And so I decided,
while I was there, that was all right,
but I'm always looking to see something better.
And so I had
a musical training and
learned in high school to play a trumpet.
So I could read music,
but I couldn't adlib.
So I use that to my advantage
and so I noticed that while I was there,
the colonel would come in
every morning from his quarters and go to his office.
So I decided, he needs some music.
[NOISE] Damn.
I thought I cut this thing off.
[NOISE]
>> We'll put that in silence, sir.
>> But anyway, just push the red button in a long time.
>> That's what I'm going to do. [NOISE] [LAUGHTER]
>> That's a whole lot of fun.
Okay. So could you start over with the music thing?
>> Yeah, well, I decided that I wanted
to play some music for him.
So I talked him into letting me see,
well, I had an incident that happened before then.
The Colonel was orientating all of us had just come
in initially from that basic training thing.
The basic training was from
the specialized training that
we had received at Fort Knox.
people back in them days,
they would sad little things.
They didn't think matter or
racial things they didn't think matter too much.
he started off joking,
he said that just because you're
Black don't think these white boys
don't carry knives too now.
so he said, they'll cut too.
so one guy was sleeping in his orientation, though.
It was about 100 of us in this place,
and he said, wake that big black fella over there.
Well, I said,
Well, I don't like that.
I didn't know what to say, what to do or anything.
so when he got through,
I told him the colonel,
I said, I let him know, I didn't like that.
He said, Well, what are you doing here?
You are older man in here,
'cause I was re enlisted, you see.
so he said, What, then
he took that conversation and twisted
around and interviewed me to see what I did on his side.
I told him by me telling him I played music as well as,
you know, drove those tanks and things.
He said, I'm I want
you to can you do anything with
a band for me. He said, Yeah.
I started a band
when you got to the time and he put me in
headquarters and gave me the authority
to anybody that wanted to play music come see me.
I was just a PFC at that time.
I'd been busted all the way down when I came back in.
so he said, Okay,
I started up a band
a drumming bugle cor
cause that was the easiest thing to do.
No music, with Bugles, or trumpets, I mean.
So I did that and then eventually turned it into a band.
But now, I didn't know how to play dog
on saxophone and read instruments and that sort of thing.
I had to figure out what I was going to do.
So what I did was took those people
that played those instruments,
put them off to the side to each group where they
had and let them train themselves with music.
I could read music and let them do it that way.
then people that were just
strictly trumpet or something that I could handle that.
Anyway, I got this thing going.
when I got it going,
I had it so that he would when he come to
I see and walked
to his back to the office in the morning,
I'd had a member of that playing for him.
See and he loved that.
I had to run of the thing when I wanted.
I could do what I want to.
When he walked into his office,
he'd turned around and look back at us and wave
at us. I eat that up.
So I used to take the guys out in
the woods and practice or do nothing.
Let them practice to themselves or something like that,
hide, so to speak.
Until lunchtime, they'd come back and play again for him.
You see? That thing.
That worked for about a year or two until
the war started and Kennedy,
then challenge the Russians
and they broke up that everybody got ready for combat.
They took us in the cavalry they put us in on a plane.
Well, they put on a boat rather in
Baltimore from Fort Meade, Maryland to Baltimore.
that was the first time troops had been in
Maryland since early part of World War II.
I went on to Germany right away.
I went on plane because I was part of
administrative staff advance party and
stayed there until I
got some more rank and I got
some more rank and I went on off.
To where I could get some more rank and I left the band.
I ended up until I could go as far as I could
go and another outfit and all that sort of thing.
Where were you posted in Germany?
At one point in my career,
I was in Manheim, Helberg.
I can't think of the place where
I can't think of the name of it now,
but it was a part of Germany where it would
rain snow from hot summer
from sun blowing out there signing
to snow flowing all within 20 minutes, you might say.
It was in the southern part of Germany.
I just can't remember Munich near,
was outside of Munich.
Down. No, no.
I was in Dokou too at one time.
Dokou is where the prison camp was
where they slaughtered
the Germans slaughtered the prisoners.
I remember going to they took us around for a tour
where the Germans actually
took prisoners and had them to stand up.
Facing them when they were going to shoot them
and they had to fall in a certain way,
and they had a ditch and they'd fall in
the ditch behind him and they'd shoot him
so that they would fall in
that ditch and the blood
wouldn't go nowhere but in that ditch,
and then they kill him in gas chamber and all that.
Thing. But we were stationed in
one half of that cam but I never went back there no more.
Could you see the effects of war in Germany still?
Yeah. I can't tell you what one part of what Manheim.
Manheim the part of the city was off limited to us.
It was bombed out, Latest
of the night would be in that area.
you weren't allowed to go in that area,
but you could go other parts of Germany,
you know, and all.
But yeah, I was you could still
see all that sort of thing.
>> Well, I want to start to wrap up the interview.
But I want to ask you. Can you tell me
a little bit about your family today,
your children and grandchildren?
>> Boy. Well, my children, well, my my girls,
four girls was my first born.
Then my first group of children.
They were all went to school in Europe and came
back and ended up in Howard University.
Howard in Baltimore, whatever that is,
School is in Baltimore,
I forget now, the college.
But then my one daughter ended up in Pentagon and
I had a son one of my boys went to work
for a company like here,
it would be an electrical company.
He went to Howard simultaneously,
and they he got
such a high position in
there/ when it come time for him to graduate,
they paid him not to graduate
so that he could stay there and keep working.
When he come time for him to retire from that,
they didn't want him to retire and he's still
working there as a company.
I don't know what his position is,
but all I know is he got an office in there. It's all.
The rest of him is just meteocre.
You know what I mean? Finish school,
and that was all.
How did you end up living in Georgia?
>> When I got ready to retire,
I was already in Georgia then.
My last tour of duty,
I was already in Georgia at that time,
and I retired from that's how I got to Georgia.
I don't know where I was stationed.
Some places I had come back from overseas.
I'd been to Japan and came back and I don't remember.
I just can't remember the place where it was then.
But anyway, I was already station in at
Fort Ben and I just
transferred from one company to another. And that's it.
>> So Mr. Hudson,
why do you think it's important to share your experiences
from the Second World War with me today.
>> Well, one thing is,
there's a lot of little things that I didn't speak of
that to me is important because I wanted to
write a book not World War II,
but I wanted to write a book about the Civil War.
And I made a comparison about the Civil War,
and I narrated down to the blacks that fall on
the side of the South as to why and
what happened and let
the public realize that a lot of things going on in
the military that you really
need to learn for discipline purposes.
And as a result of that,
I never did write to finish the book.
But there's a lot of things went on in World War II,
for example, first of all,
very few Blacks were allowed to fight.
Very few.
And that's why you see in the pictures,
most pictures you see,
you see all white soldiers.
You don't see that many Blacks nothing but there
were Blacks built
the Alcan highway, but that was the Wall.
That's the highway running down from Canada
down on the South on
the Western Coast of
United States on down to around Mexico.
But when the Germans was
whipping us in the battle of the budge, for example,
the United States was really been kissing hell.
So there was a shortage of
soldiers and readily available
were Blacks that weren't allowed to fight.
Now, I don't know if the right terminology,
but they weren't allowed to fight.
So the War Department put out an order that
any Blacks that wanted to fight in combat could go.
If they wanted to give up their rank.
If they wanted to go, they could go.
But there was one general who became famous
in the United States Army, Patton.
Patton said, no, I
will not accept any Black that's got any rank.
If you've got rank, you cannot come and join my outfit.
You got to give up your rank and
become a private in fight.
Well, I don't know how all that
end up turned out to be there
because certain things you don't tell you, you see.
And a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that
we only hear mostly about
the beheading of American soldiers in warfare.
You only heard about it here lately,
so to speak, in the war,
in the Far East or over how they beheaded soldiers.
But the Japanese did the same darn thing to us in Japan.
When those people bombed,
they made to drop
the atomic bomb and couldn't get back to the ship,
and they had to fly to the gas run out
and wherever they fell at,
wherever the plane landed at.
It was in China,
mostly, I think, I understand it,
most of the people were in China.
The pilots were killed,
but they were put on and beheaded.
A lot of that you don't hear about that.
And same thing went on here in the Civil War,
when Blacks were fighting on the side of the South,
we don't hear about that many of most people,
history has been written to say,
don't mention that too much.
But believe it or not,
the South would have won
the war if they were allowed to fight.
But when Davis gave up
the command to them to fight, it was too late.
But I don't know what situation
would have been if it had been allowed,
but it was according to Burns,
if all y'all know about Burns is the guy that
wrote most of the history,
said that the South would have won the war in that time.
But the South actually decorated
more plaques than the Northern did in the Civil War.
And honored more Blacks than the North did.
And there's another thing that's
going on that's right now,
Blacks think that they can vote at any time,
but I don't know what was in the minds of
the people who signed the whatever he called now,
I can't remember in 63,
the educational bill or whatever it was in 63.
But that thing says this,
Blacks cannot vote in a federal election.
Now, that goes true today.
Most people don't realize that.
They cannot vote unless Congress said you can vote.
And right now, the last time that they
said you could vote in the federal elections,
they gave him 20 years, I think.
That's where it is now around about 20 years.
But before then, they were
only for maybe two or three years at a time.
And people voting rights.
>> The voting right has to be renewed.
>> Yeah. And it's right now,
people don't realize that.
My kids can't vote.
For instance, White people can say,
I want to vote, my kids can always vote.
I can't say that.
But yet, I love this country
and I fight for this country,
and that's what's happening with us now.
We'll fight for the country,
but we've got things in the back of our mind.
Why do you think we so
patriotic to fight for the country.
And the same as with me.
I don't mind fighting,
but they wouldn't allow me to fight when I wanted to
fight. That's my story.