1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,060 >> This is James Newberry. 2 00:00:02,060 --> 00:00:04,960 I'm here with Herbert Cohen on November 12th, 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,460 2013 at the Museum of History and 4 00:00:07,460 --> 00:00:11,200 Holocaust Education at Kennesaw State University. 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,985 And Mr. Cohen, do you agree to this interview? 6 00:00:13,985 --> 00:00:15,895 >> Yes. 7 00:00:15,895 --> 00:00:19,645 >> When and where were you born? 8 00:00:19,645 --> 00:00:23,770 >> I was born in Frankfurt on Main, 9 00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:31,690 Germany, September 27th, 1926. 10 00:00:31,690 --> 00:00:35,140 >> And what was life like for your family 11 00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:39,430 and friends in the years before World War II? 12 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:45,900 >> My family and 13 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:53,350 my friends were upper middle class family. 14 00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:56,290 My father had a good job. 15 00:00:56,290 --> 00:01:00,670 We had a very nice home. 16 00:01:00,670 --> 00:01:03,790 It wasn't a house that we lived in, 17 00:01:03,790 --> 00:01:05,390 but an apartment, but we had 18 00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:08,020 the whole floor of an apartment. 19 00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:13,160 Had many rooms, well-furnished, 20 00:01:13,210 --> 00:01:16,050 nice library with many, 21 00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:21,610 many books, a whole abundance of art. 22 00:01:22,130 --> 00:01:30,525 My mother had very nice clothing, beautiful jewelry. 23 00:01:30,525 --> 00:01:36,290 We all were well dressed in most times. 24 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:42,250 And we lived a good life. 25 00:01:42,250 --> 00:01:46,160 I have a family tree that goes back to 1490. 26 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:51,130 So we lived in Germany 500 years of my family. 27 00:01:52,090 --> 00:01:55,560 Over 500 years, 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:06,860 we were steeped in German culture, European culture, 29 00:02:06,860 --> 00:02:13,555 music, art, literature, Goethe, 30 00:02:13,555 --> 00:02:22,390 Schiller, both of my grandparents 31 00:02:22,390 --> 00:02:29,330 and my father fought for Germany in World War I. 32 00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:35,250 My grandfather was a doctor and 33 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:42,720 he became a first field great officer in the German Army. 34 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:51,350 Jewish in World War I. 35 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:58,650 My father was a front soldier in the front lines. 36 00:03:03,970 --> 00:03:11,890 We were raised and brought up not as German Jews, 37 00:03:11,890 --> 00:03:15,570 but as Jewish Germans. 38 00:03:18,730 --> 00:03:28,770 A big difference. And all of that, 39 00:03:28,770 --> 00:03:30,970 of course, changed. 40 00:03:31,550 --> 00:03:35,440 >> So what role did your Jewish faith, 41 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,030 your Jewish identity play in your life up to 1933? 42 00:03:40,030 --> 00:03:45,185 >> Well, we were observing Jews. 43 00:03:45,185 --> 00:03:48,490 We were not Orthodox Jews. 44 00:03:48,490 --> 00:03:51,740 We didn't observe all the rules and 45 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:56,000 regulations and the Kashrut laws. 46 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,900 But we went to services once a week on the sabbath. 47 00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:05,180 We observed all the holidays. 48 00:04:05,180 --> 00:04:11,905 We had our celebrations in our home with family? 49 00:04:11,905 --> 00:04:21,980 And my brother was bar mitzvah and I remember being 50 00:04:21,980 --> 00:04:31,860 there and there was no denial that we were Jews. 51 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:34,140 We were proud to be Jews. 52 00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:39,390 And we were active in the Jewish community. 53 00:04:39,390 --> 00:04:43,260 >> Was your neighborhood mixed non-Jew and Jew? 54 00:04:43,260 --> 00:04:47,360 >> Yes. Completely mixed neighborhood. 55 00:04:47,370 --> 00:04:52,900 >> So what level of anti-Semitism would you 56 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:55,030 say was there in Germany prior to 57 00:04:55,030 --> 00:04:58,225 1933? How visible was it? 58 00:04:58,225 --> 00:05:01,325 >> Well, there probably was anti-Semitism. 59 00:05:01,325 --> 00:05:04,730 My grandfather was telling me more about it because I 60 00:05:04,730 --> 00:05:08,870 spent a lot of time that's on my mother's side. 61 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:10,790 My maternal grandfather, I 62 00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:13,580 knew him well because he lived with us 63 00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:19,360 and we used to 64 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,580 walk to town and everywhere together. 65 00:05:25,580 --> 00:05:30,740 So he was telling me he belonged to 66 00:05:30,740 --> 00:05:37,900 the Democratic Party of Germany at that time, 67 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:41,965 which was in power before Hitler became chancellor. 68 00:05:41,965 --> 00:05:46,915 And after World War I on, 69 00:05:46,915 --> 00:05:51,395 Germany had a democratic government 70 00:05:51,395 --> 00:05:56,440 and he told me some 71 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,860 of the incidents where 72 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:01,720 there was confrontations on the streets and things, 73 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,160 but I never observed any myself. 74 00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:08,730 It all changed though. 75 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:13,030 >> So how did your life stay the 76 00:06:13,030 --> 00:06:14,690 same or change when 77 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:17,865 the Nazis initially came to power in Germany? 78 00:06:17,865 --> 00:06:21,430 >> Well, I 79 00:06:21,430 --> 00:06:24,090 want to tell you about that is because it really 80 00:06:24,090 --> 00:06:28,170 changed in one incident where it 81 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:34,150 really became a very dramatic change. 82 00:06:34,150 --> 00:06:39,550 In 1933, in March, 83 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,680 I went to public school. 84 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,700 I was in the first grade of public school. 85 00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:52,040 The Cloud Brooks School. 86 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,870 That's the name of school. 87 00:06:53,870 --> 00:06:58,160 And the parents made 88 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,160 arrangements of everybody in the block that we would 89 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,060 walk together because we had crossed 90 00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:07,460 two major thoroughfares and didn't have 91 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:10,900 any school buses then, 92 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:14,220 and any crossing guards, anything like that. 93 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:17,000 So we walked together. 94 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,000 And that particular day, 95 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,090 we walked to school together two miles. 96 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,415 And when we got to school, 97 00:07:27,415 --> 00:07:31,560 we got in our seats. 98 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,290 And I remember I was six years old. 99 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,580 The teacher said, are there any Jews in 100 00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:46,470 this class? Raise your hands. 101 00:07:46,660 --> 00:07:50,730 And I raised my hand proudly. 102 00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:55,420 And looked around, it was one other person in the class. 103 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:59,360 It was a girl raised her hand. 104 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:05,265 The teacher said, you two, 105 00:08:05,265 --> 00:08:08,620 get your things and go home. 106 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:12,020 Jews are not allowed in 107 00:08:12,020 --> 00:08:15,180 public schools in Germany anymore. 108 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:20,740 I didn't know what she was talking about. 109 00:08:20,740 --> 00:08:23,340 You remember I was only six years old. 110 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:25,120 I really didn't quite understand it 111 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,900 because immediately I started thinking 112 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:31,510 about how I'm going to get home. 113 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:34,020 I never walked home by myself. 114 00:08:34,580 --> 00:08:42,565 I managed to get home. 115 00:08:42,565 --> 00:08:45,470 And when I go home, my mother immediately said, 116 00:08:45,470 --> 00:08:51,390 I knew something was wrong because just today, 117 00:08:51,390 --> 00:08:56,830 our neighbors told me she couldn't talk to me anymore, 118 00:08:56,830 --> 00:08:58,210 and I couldn't talk to her 119 00:08:58,210 --> 00:09:02,590 anymore or she would lose her job. 120 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:10,780 The next morning, I was standing by my gate. 121 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:14,340 Waited for the group to came by. 122 00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:16,960 And sure enough, the group came by and 123 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,320 the leader of the group was my best friend that I 124 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:28,260 played ball with in an empty lot every day. 125 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:32,560 And he saw me standing at the gate, 126 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:37,650 and he says, what are you looking at, you dirty Jew? 127 00:09:40,540 --> 00:09:45,230 Twenty-four hours after I got kicked out of school, 128 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:47,450 everything had changed. 129 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:50,040 He was converted. 130 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,595 From that moment on, 131 00:09:54,595 --> 00:09:59,740 my life changed completely and not only for me but for 132 00:09:59,740 --> 00:10:07,480 life of all Jews in Germany and later on in Europe. 133 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,555 Life became more difficult. 134 00:10:11,555 --> 00:10:19,850 It actually 135 00:10:19,850 --> 00:10:24,020 involved four different periods 136 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:29,760 to Holocaust that lasted from 1933-1945. 137 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:41,810 The first period was discrimination and then it 138 00:10:41,810 --> 00:10:45,680 turned into segregation and that 139 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:49,430 came on when there were laws passed. 140 00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:50,930 The Jews couldn't do this, 141 00:10:50,930 --> 00:10:52,220 and Jews couldn't do that, 142 00:10:52,220 --> 00:10:55,250 and they couldn't be there and couldn't be here, 143 00:10:55,250 --> 00:11:01,790 and then it went into persecution every day. 144 00:11:01,790 --> 00:11:05,190 Something happened and Jews were 145 00:11:05,770 --> 00:11:11,825 abused because they were Jews for no other reason. 146 00:11:11,825 --> 00:11:14,690 And then came the final stage, 147 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:19,400 which began with Kristallnacht it was 148 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,660 a test actually to 149 00:11:23,660 --> 00:11:26,900 see if the world was ready to accept the final stage, 150 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:31,790 and that was extermination stage. 151 00:11:31,790 --> 00:11:36,050 The killing of people who were Jews. 152 00:11:36,050 --> 00:11:38,690 >> So you had 153 00:11:38,690 --> 00:11:43,835 referred previously to your middle name at that time. 154 00:11:43,835 --> 00:11:46,370 And what was your middle name? 155 00:11:46,370 --> 00:11:50,345 You said it became your middle name in these early years, 156 00:11:50,345 --> 00:11:52,370 the rise of Nazism. 157 00:11:52,370 --> 00:11:55,790 >> My middle name was Israel. 158 00:11:55,790 --> 00:11:58,115 I didn't know anything about that. 159 00:11:58,115 --> 00:12:04,040 That came to me after I escaped from Germany after 160 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,660 Kristallnacht and I saw 161 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:12,965 where my name was officially added. 162 00:12:12,965 --> 00:12:17,540 Israel was added to my name. 163 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,765 All Jews were given a middle name, 164 00:12:20,765 --> 00:12:23,000 Israel to identify him 165 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,800 better to be ready for the final stage. 166 00:12:29,050 --> 00:12:31,580 >> So how were 167 00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:34,550 these anti-Jewish policies instituted 168 00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:37,070 in Frankfurt at this time, 169 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:41,195 starting with the Nuremberg Laws in 1934? 170 00:12:41,195 --> 00:12:43,925 >> Every park bench in Frankfurt 171 00:12:43,925 --> 00:12:46,730 had a mark on it Jews cannot sit here, 172 00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:49,480 a sign on it. 173 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,910 And there are lots of park benches in Frankfurt. 174 00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:58,180 Every store had signs on, 175 00:12:58,180 --> 00:13:00,340 you didn't sin to your own advent, 176 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:04,460 that means Jews are not wanted or allowed here. 177 00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:08,990 Every public place, theatre, 178 00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:14,520 restaurant, had the same signs on. 179 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,700 Jews were segregated completely. 180 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:29,210 Because after I was kicked out of school, 181 00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:35,375 a year later, about six months later, 182 00:13:35,375 --> 00:13:39,035 I went to a segregated school. 183 00:13:39,035 --> 00:13:42,510 They established two of them in Frankfurt. 184 00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:48,335 One more for the orthodox group of Jews and the 185 00:13:48,335 --> 00:13:54,240 other one for anybody who wasn't told very orthodox. 186 00:13:56,260 --> 00:14:01,520 My brother and I and my father went to that school. 187 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,255 My father had lost his job because he was a Jew. 188 00:14:05,255 --> 00:14:10,745 He had a very good position and 189 00:14:10,745 --> 00:14:17,030 he became active in the sports department of the school. 190 00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:20,570 And this school, especially this particular school, 191 00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:25,790 the philanthropy in Frankfurt way 192 00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:28,040 the building and is still there. 193 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,630 The school is still there, 194 00:14:29,630 --> 00:14:32,765 but it's now being used for other things. 195 00:14:32,765 --> 00:14:41,195 I just want to go forward a little bit that says, 196 00:14:41,195 --> 00:14:44,990 I was invited by the city of Frankfurt in 197 00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:47,510 2003 to have a program 198 00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:50,315 that heals the guilt of their grandparents. 199 00:14:50,315 --> 00:14:53,690 And I was invited to come there, 200 00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:56,435 and my wife and I for two weeks, 201 00:14:56,435 --> 00:15:01,625 all expenses paid stayed in the finest hotel that had 202 00:15:01,625 --> 00:15:04,010 actually been destroyed but was rebuilt 203 00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:07,325 again during the war. 204 00:15:07,325 --> 00:15:11,870 And then we had a docent that was with 205 00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:13,895 us and took us everywhere and I could 206 00:15:13,895 --> 00:15:16,835 show my wife where I was born and where I lived, 207 00:15:16,835 --> 00:15:19,685 and where my ancestors were buried 208 00:15:19,685 --> 00:15:25,650 in cemeteries and it was a powerful trip for us, really. 209 00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:30,590 And for everybody and we saw where it happened. 210 00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:33,725 But the reason I'm mentioning it 211 00:15:33,725 --> 00:15:39,770 is the initial meeting 212 00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:42,680 was held in that school of that group. 213 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,180 Was a group of people. 214 00:15:44,180 --> 00:15:45,860 They had a program, 215 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:50,730 but on that particular room we had about 35 people came. 216 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,665 It was held in the school, 217 00:15:54,665 --> 00:15:56,990 and it was a very emotional moment 218 00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:58,340 for me because it was right in 219 00:15:58,340 --> 00:16:02,660 the school right where I had been 220 00:16:02,660 --> 00:16:07,520 before where I went to and where I was kicked out of. 221 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,260 [OVERLAPPING] Not where I was kicked out of, 222 00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:14,900 where I went to after I got kicked out of the school. 223 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:16,895 >> To the Jewish school? 224 00:16:16,895 --> 00:16:17,510 >> Yeah. 225 00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:20,705 >> And you said your father lost his job, 226 00:16:20,705 --> 00:16:24,080 and worked in the sports department at the school? 227 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:24,680 >> Yes. 228 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,880 >> And so did your family have to 229 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,120 live with less means 230 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,285 at that point because your father had lost his good job? 231 00:16:35,285 --> 00:16:39,710 >> We had some savings 232 00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:44,880 and we lived on him, and we managed. 233 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:53,570 In German mindset is very 234 00:16:53,570 --> 00:16:59,825 different that you manage on what you got. 235 00:16:59,825 --> 00:17:03,890 And there's a whole lot of other principles that 236 00:17:03,890 --> 00:17:10,280 are different that I learned in 237 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:15,755 my life is mindset of 238 00:17:15,755 --> 00:17:22,565 Germany that absolute obedience to government, 239 00:17:22,565 --> 00:17:25,560 to parents, and to teachers. 240 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,180 The word is bad word in it, 241 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:31,890 it is the word absolute. 242 00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:41,615 Because for instance, in Germany, it doesn't say, 243 00:17:41,615 --> 00:17:44,490 please do not litter, 244 00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:51,510 and place your trash in appropriate containers. 245 00:17:51,670 --> 00:17:54,575 It says, it's verboten to litter. 246 00:17:54,575 --> 00:17:56,555 It's forbidden to litter. 247 00:17:56,555 --> 00:18:01,490 I don't know if any an opportunity to ever be in Germany, 248 00:18:01,490 --> 00:18:06,020 but to this day and when we went back in 2003, 249 00:18:06,020 --> 00:18:07,490 one thing you couldn't find 250 00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:11,240 any trash or anything like that. 251 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,015 Everything is clean. 252 00:18:14,015 --> 00:18:17,585 And it's a mindset. 253 00:18:17,585 --> 00:18:21,275 That part of the absolute mindset is good. 254 00:18:21,275 --> 00:18:23,180 The other one that you 255 00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:25,970 absolute obedience to parents and teachers, 256 00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:28,410 which I was brought up under, 257 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,900 I thank God, in America, 258 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:36,200 we believe that the students 259 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,000 in an appropriate way can speak to 260 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,640 the teachers and can speak to 261 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,000 their parents in an appropriate way. 262 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,330 >> So continuing in that same vein, 263 00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:49,940 why do you think the Nazis were 264 00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:52,860 able to come to power in Germany? 265 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:05,075 >> Just recently, I saw a film that at the Breman, 266 00:19:05,075 --> 00:19:12,560 that they showed the propaganda that Germany 267 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,055 used to sell their principal 268 00:19:18,055 --> 00:19:20,440 of the thing that I found 269 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,900 out the day I was kicked out of school, 270 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:24,475 that from that day on, 271 00:19:24,475 --> 00:19:27,080 the Jew was a nothing. 272 00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:31,415 That was a policy of the German government, 273 00:19:31,415 --> 00:19:36,605 and that led on to the final stage of discrimination, 274 00:19:36,605 --> 00:19:42,180 segregation, persecution, and extermination. 275 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,390 That's what happened. 276 00:19:49,390 --> 00:19:54,565 However, that film showed 277 00:19:54,565 --> 00:19:58,490 propaganda was another one of their specialties. 278 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,000 By the way, I don't know where you know the statistics, 279 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,935 Germany had 60 million people. 280 00:20:09,935 --> 00:20:15,190 And had actually only 450,000 Jews. 281 00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:19,915 And how they can make the small minority such as 282 00:20:19,915 --> 00:20:25,825 center point was the Gerblz who was in charge of this. 283 00:20:25,825 --> 00:20:29,380 He was a minister in charge of that. 284 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:33,280 He developed a propaganda system 285 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,270 that convinced the people overnight. 286 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:40,390 When Hitler spoke and he said, 287 00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:42,890 the Jew is a nothing, 288 00:20:44,670 --> 00:20:46,975 any of the other spoke, 289 00:20:46,975 --> 00:20:49,280 the Jews are nothing. 290 00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:56,470 The German people almost 99% were with him. 291 00:20:56,470 --> 00:21:02,050 Heil Hitler, we are with you. 292 00:21:02,050 --> 00:21:06,700 Because they followed that principle, 293 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:11,590 the government is always right. 294 00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:17,215 We got to obey. And they were with him. 295 00:21:17,215 --> 00:21:19,750 And he's going to take care of us. 296 00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:23,500 >> So where did you see this propaganda on a daily basis? 297 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,450 >> Daily basis was 298 00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:28,120 from the day I was kicked out of school, 299 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,690 and my best friend called me a dirty Jew. 300 00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:33,985 According to him calling me a dirty Jew was a worst name, 301 00:21:33,985 --> 00:21:39,230 but I don't use that in public speaking. 302 00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:43,315 From that day on, 303 00:21:43,315 --> 00:21:45,820 I couldn't go on the street anymore. 304 00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:47,260 You're talking about segregation, 305 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:49,210 we segregated ourselves. 306 00:21:49,210 --> 00:21:51,220 And that's the reason when we went to 307 00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:53,470 the school and my father was 308 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:55,930 involved in the sports program, whatnot. 309 00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:58,810 We had 310 00:21:58,810 --> 00:22:00,370 a whole social life 311 00:22:00,370 --> 00:22:05,455 and sports life and outside activities 312 00:22:05,455 --> 00:22:09,250 were all centered just among Jews. 313 00:22:09,250 --> 00:22:13,480 Because when I went on my street right outside the door, 314 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,570 which I always used to go and play with my friends, 315 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:26,860 my friends beat me up because I was a dirty Jew. 316 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:29,635 So I stayed away from them. 317 00:22:29,635 --> 00:22:31,840 And we and my brother and I we 318 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,855 just segregate ourselves and my parents, 319 00:22:34,855 --> 00:22:40,945 they completely broke away from neighbors. 320 00:22:40,945 --> 00:22:42,850 You asked if we were 321 00:22:42,850 --> 00:22:46,970 segregated or integrated in that neighborhood. 322 00:22:48,060 --> 00:22:51,445 My mother was very active. 323 00:22:51,445 --> 00:22:55,000 She knew everybody in grocery stores. 324 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,780 Like you know your neighborhood people. 325 00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:01,580 That all stopped. 326 00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:06,460 And it stopped and it was difficult. 327 00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:12,325 And we had activities only in our family members 328 00:23:12,325 --> 00:23:19,795 and our synagogue activities in our Jewish community. 329 00:23:19,795 --> 00:23:21,610 >> And what did you think? 330 00:23:21,610 --> 00:23:23,770 What did you feel when you saw 331 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:27,310 propaganda posters put up on 332 00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:31,210 city streets, different things like that. 333 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:32,380 How did that make you feel? 334 00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:34,975 And how often would you see these images? 335 00:23:34,975 --> 00:23:39,685 >> Well, can I tell you a little story? 336 00:23:39,685 --> 00:23:41,800 This is a good story. 337 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,970 Right down the street from us, about two blocks, 338 00:23:45,970 --> 00:23:54,520 three blocks was a big public high school. 339 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,570 And it was called the [inaudible] School, 340 00:23:58,570 --> 00:24:05,275 was named after some famous German person. 341 00:24:05,275 --> 00:24:10,940 And it was changed to Adolf Hitler School. 342 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,995 And since we walked a lot with my grandfather, 343 00:24:14,995 --> 00:24:19,525 my brother and I walked a lot and down. 344 00:24:19,525 --> 00:24:24,670 We had to go down that street to go to a town. 345 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:35,530 My grandfather in defiance 346 00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:38,270 of what was going on, 347 00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:43,465 he couldn't be publicly in defiance. 348 00:24:43,465 --> 00:24:49,420 But when he walked onto that block, 349 00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:51,280 when he stepped up on 350 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,405 the sidewalk after crossing the street, 351 00:24:55,405 --> 00:24:58,975 all along that school, 352 00:24:58,975 --> 00:25:01,840 he would whistle a Jewish song that 353 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,080 we sing on a festival of Hanukkah. 354 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:11,410 He would whistle it and stop when he stepped off. 355 00:25:11,410 --> 00:25:13,585 He did that regularly, 356 00:25:13,585 --> 00:25:20,060 all the time every time, as in defiance. 357 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,790 And we whistled with him. 358 00:25:24,790 --> 00:25:27,740 We knew the song well. 359 00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:33,340 And that was the only thing that we could do to do it. 360 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:37,150 But we were opposed 361 00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:38,290 to what was going 362 00:25:38,290 --> 00:25:42,340 on and well we couldn't do much about it anymore. 363 00:25:42,340 --> 00:25:48,505 >> So in those years between 1934 and 1938, 364 00:25:48,505 --> 00:25:51,595 what were the conversations 365 00:25:51,595 --> 00:25:56,080 between Jewish families who had segregated themselves? 366 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,745 What did they expect in the future? 367 00:26:00,745 --> 00:26:03,250 >> Well, when the Nuremberg Laws were 368 00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:07,825 passed that really made Jews second class citizen, 369 00:26:07,825 --> 00:26:10,525 my father made a family tree. 370 00:26:10,525 --> 00:26:14,230 That was most people what they did. 371 00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:17,305 How can we maybe get out of here? 372 00:26:17,305 --> 00:26:19,240 This is our country, 373 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,805 but how are we going to get out of here? 374 00:26:21,805 --> 00:26:25,855 We lived here 500 years and fought for it in World War I. 375 00:26:25,855 --> 00:26:28,940 That's the reason I told you this in the beginning. 376 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,470 So my father made a family tree and wrote letters 377 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:39,700 all over the world for people that he could find out. 378 00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,100 How he got addresses I don't really know, 379 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:45,830 but I got that family tree still, by the way. 380 00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:57,520 Big family. Finally a third cousin 381 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,830 from Birmingham, 382 00:26:59,830 --> 00:27:02,530 Alabama sent us a letter 383 00:27:02,530 --> 00:27:06,650 that they want to sponsor us for a visa to America. 384 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:19,040 We finally got that visa in 1937, 385 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,705 but it didn't come valid until 386 00:27:20,705 --> 00:27:24,290 1940 because there's a quota system 387 00:27:24,290 --> 00:27:25,670 that's still in effect, 388 00:27:25,670 --> 00:27:28,280 how many people can come from 389 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,590 each country to America each year, 390 00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:42,020 and were able to get out. 391 00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:45,050 And we had to get out in 1939, 392 00:27:45,050 --> 00:27:48,680 because I haven't told you that part of the story yet, 393 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,630 we'll come to it a little later. 394 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:54,960 But when my father was arrested and after that, 395 00:27:57,250 --> 00:28:01,310 if we tried to escape to England. 396 00:28:01,310 --> 00:28:03,470 But in the meantime, 397 00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:07,070 our visa did become valid and we were able to leave 398 00:28:07,070 --> 00:28:11,090 from England to America in April 1940. 399 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:14,850 >> What was your experience during Khristall Nacht? 400 00:28:16,510 --> 00:28:21,725 >> November 9th, 1938. 401 00:28:21,725 --> 00:28:26,340 75th anniversary was last Saturday. 402 00:28:29,290 --> 00:28:33,470 That was a night that I will never forget. 403 00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:36,510 I was 12 years old now. 404 00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:42,270 There are three things happened on that night. 405 00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:46,865 And the Nacht, by the way, 406 00:28:46,865 --> 00:28:54,200 said it was the discontent or 407 00:28:54,200 --> 00:29:00,365 the opposing of the Jews 408 00:29:00,365 --> 00:29:03,560 of the German people against 409 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,070 the Jews of all the terrible things 410 00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:09,470 that the Jews did to them. 411 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:15,210 That was a spontaneous reaction. 412 00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:18,275 I would just tell you something when 413 00:29:18,275 --> 00:29:21,980 it absolutely has been proven since then. 414 00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:24,410 It wasn't a spontaneous reaction. 415 00:29:24,410 --> 00:29:30,530 It was an organized systematic process, 416 00:29:30,530 --> 00:29:32,840 because in a four hour period, 417 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,165 these three things happened. 418 00:29:35,165 --> 00:29:41,250 Every synagogue in Germany and in Austria got destroyed. 419 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:43,580 Every one of them. 420 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,380 Desecrated, burned. 421 00:29:50,770 --> 00:29:56,765 Every store owned by a Jew. 422 00:29:56,765 --> 00:29:59,630 The glass was broken 423 00:29:59,630 --> 00:30:03,515 in all of these week places all over. 424 00:30:03,515 --> 00:30:08,435 Every store, that was owned by a Jew, 425 00:30:08,435 --> 00:30:09,620 the glass was broken, 426 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:13,200 and it was looted, ransacked and destroyed. 427 00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:20,480 And number three, 428 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,660 every Jewish male person 429 00:30:23,660 --> 00:30:28,190 between the ages of 16 and 60 was arrested, 430 00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:31,130 who hadn't been arrested before was 431 00:30:31,130 --> 00:30:37,800 arrested and put in a concentration camp. 432 00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:48,575 I was there. I was 12 years old. 433 00:30:48,575 --> 00:30:53,070 And all this happened in a three or four hour period. 434 00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:06,050 I saw how synagogue 435 00:31:06,050 --> 00:31:08,030 the one I went to and 436 00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:10,655 all the others because the next morning, 437 00:31:10,655 --> 00:31:15,095 my grandfather walked me by him. 438 00:31:15,095 --> 00:31:16,775 All the way in the town. 439 00:31:16,775 --> 00:31:20,840 It's a big city. Four miles 440 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,630 to go to just to go to town or five miles. 441 00:31:26,980 --> 00:31:30,630 I saw the synagogues burning. 442 00:31:32,980 --> 00:31:38,810 I saw the fire truck standing by and the police. 443 00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:40,880 Not to put the fire out, 444 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,150 but to keep the fire from spreading. 445 00:31:48,430 --> 00:31:54,090 I saw the glass on the street of all the stores. 446 00:31:54,970 --> 00:32:02,705 There was street with many stores and all of them. 447 00:32:02,705 --> 00:32:05,990 They call it Kristallnacht. 448 00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:09,530 Interesting enough. It was in Germany, 449 00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:12,710 the Jewish community of Germany just changed the name to 450 00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:16,490 Program Nacht Just changed 451 00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:21,590 it recently because Krystall sounds too pretty. 452 00:32:21,910 --> 00:32:28,380 It was supposed to denote that glass was everywhere. 453 00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,130 Broken glass. 454 00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:33,590 And I was there when 455 00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:36,185 the storm troopers came to our house, 456 00:32:36,185 --> 00:32:37,550 knocked on the door, 457 00:32:37,550 --> 00:32:40,020 standing next to my mother. 458 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,920 When she opened the door, 459 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,330 I can see him with 460 00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:53,075 his Nacht uniform on swastika on his arm, 461 00:32:53,075 --> 00:32:58,260 leather boots, leather belt, leather shoulder straps. 462 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,610 And he came in and pushed her to the floor of 463 00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:09,680 the foyer and stepped 464 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,885 in the middle of the foyer and says, 465 00:33:11,885 --> 00:33:14,870 are there any dirty Jews here, 466 00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:18,290 and I'm using again, the word dirty used in other words. 467 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:24,290 Dirty Jews here between the ages of 16 and 60 male. 468 00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:26,780 I was 12. 469 00:33:26,780 --> 00:33:28,970 My brother was 15. 470 00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:36,300 My grandfather lived with us was 64 and my father was 38. 471 00:33:37,330 --> 00:33:41,790 My father came out of the back and says, here I am. 472 00:33:43,390 --> 00:33:47,915 Grabbed him and took him away. 473 00:33:47,915 --> 00:33:52,670 No explanation, no nothing in the media. 474 00:33:52,670 --> 00:33:55,560 The media was all controlled by the Nacht. 475 00:33:56,830 --> 00:34:01,070 And nobody knew exactly what 476 00:34:01,070 --> 00:34:03,470 was going on. We didn't know. 477 00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:05,045 But my mother said, 478 00:34:05,045 --> 00:34:07,715 if he ever should come back, 479 00:34:07,715 --> 00:34:10,775 we got to get him out of this place 480 00:34:10,775 --> 00:34:14,150 immediately out of this country. 481 00:34:14,150 --> 00:34:23,400 And we had the visa to come to America, but we didn't. 482 00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:34,160 We remember we had a distant cousin in London, 483 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,290 England, which we didn't know, 484 00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:38,465 but we've heard of him. 485 00:34:38,465 --> 00:34:40,310 And she called him. 486 00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:41,780 She how she got the number, 487 00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:43,040 I can't tell you that, 488 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:49,340 but she called him and was able to talk to him and he 489 00:34:49,340 --> 00:34:52,250 sent a telegram back and said that he would 490 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:56,480 sponsor my father for a transit visa. 491 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,645 Under Transit view you can't work, 492 00:34:59,645 --> 00:35:03,080 but he would put the money up so we had a place to 493 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:08,490 live for that year for one year. 494 00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:19,735 My mother took that telegram 495 00:35:19,735 --> 00:35:22,915 to the English consul in Frankfurt. 496 00:35:22,915 --> 00:35:25,555 And the English consul in Frankfurt 497 00:35:25,555 --> 00:35:28,060 told my mother to put in front of him, 498 00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:31,360 my father's passport, her passport, 499 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,195 my brother's passport and my passport. 500 00:35:34,195 --> 00:35:36,700 And he took his visa stamp, 501 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:38,500 transit visa stamp and 502 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:41,560 stamped each one of them with a visa. 503 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,310 And now I dwell on that sometimes. 504 00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:48,775 It's because he was a righteous gentile. 505 00:35:48,775 --> 00:35:54,640 And he also was not a bystander. 506 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,900 Because during this whole period of the Holocaust, 507 00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:00,940 where later on, millions of 508 00:36:00,940 --> 00:36:03,310 people were murdered, men, women, 509 00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:12,410 and children killed, exterminated, without any question. 510 00:36:13,770 --> 00:36:18,410 He was not a bystander. 511 00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:22,450 He's tried to save lives. 512 00:36:22,450 --> 00:36:25,390 And he saved our lives. 513 00:36:25,390 --> 00:36:29,995 >> And your father was held at Buchenwald? 514 00:36:29,995 --> 00:36:38,360 >> My father actually came back three weeks later. 515 00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:42,530 I happened to open the door 516 00:36:42,690 --> 00:36:47,155 and I didn't recognize him at first. 517 00:36:47,155 --> 00:36:49,000 His hair had turned white. 518 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,075 He had lost 30 pounds in three weeks. 519 00:36:52,075 --> 00:36:56,690 He had been subject to unspeakable abuse. 520 00:36:57,690 --> 00:37:00,130 Yes. He was taken first to 521 00:37:00,130 --> 00:37:02,710 an assembly place in Frankfurt, 522 00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:07,825 and from there to Buchenwald concentration camp, 523 00:37:07,825 --> 00:37:10,660 which is at Weimar Germany in 524 00:37:10,660 --> 00:37:14,090 the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. 525 00:37:15,450 --> 00:37:19,840 Two and a half hour train ride from Frankfurt. 526 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:28,870 He was 527 00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:35,260 there and 528 00:37:35,260 --> 00:37:36,835 he said when he first came in, 529 00:37:36,835 --> 00:37:39,070 he was glad to see us, hugged us, 530 00:37:39,070 --> 00:37:41,080 and was glad to hear that he could go 531 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,570 the next morning to England, get out. 532 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:47,220 But he said, 533 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:48,300 "I have to talk". 534 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:51,250 And I thought he would talk in half an hour. 535 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,535 He talked all night. 536 00:37:54,535 --> 00:38:00,025 A terrible story of abuse, physical, 537 00:38:00,025 --> 00:38:06,770 mental, personal abuse in this concentration camp. 538 00:38:07,380 --> 00:38:11,860 For example, I'll just give you one example. 539 00:38:11,860 --> 00:38:15,700 They had a stand formation 540 00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:17,950 every morning at 5 o'clock and it 541 00:38:17,950 --> 00:38:23,395 was in that part of Germany, especially in December. 542 00:38:23,395 --> 00:38:26,270 It was 20 below zero. 543 00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:34,940 They had to stand formation naked without clothes on. 544 00:38:35,970 --> 00:38:42,040 And the Nazi guards made fun of them and took away 545 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,030 all their personal dignity and 546 00:38:46,030 --> 00:38:49,060 abused them right there 547 00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:51,130 while they were standing in formation. 548 00:38:51,130 --> 00:38:55,990 And then one day while he was standing in formation, 549 00:38:55,990 --> 00:39:01,720 they called him out because they found in his wallet 550 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:06,730 a document that showed that he had been 551 00:39:06,730 --> 00:39:09,070 awarded The Honor Cross for 552 00:39:09,070 --> 00:39:12,955 front soldiers in World War I, 553 00:39:12,955 --> 00:39:18,880 and he was awarded by the Fuhrer and Chancellor, 554 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,230 which happened to be 555 00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:25,810 Adolf Hitler under a rule passed after the war, 556 00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:31,130 and after he came into power. 557 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,690 In the warped sense of justice, 558 00:39:37,690 --> 00:39:40,945 they took away his prison uniform, 559 00:39:40,945 --> 00:39:42,745 gave him back his raincoat, 560 00:39:42,745 --> 00:39:44,230 nothing else on, 561 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:46,850 and said, go home. 562 00:39:48,270 --> 00:39:52,150 How he got without 563 00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:53,575 hardly any clothes on 564 00:39:53,575 --> 00:39:56,770 from Weimar Germany back to Frankfurt, 565 00:39:56,770 --> 00:40:00,080 I don't know, but here he was. 566 00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:08,680 He left the next morning for England, and first, 567 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,250 my brother and then my mother and I several three, 568 00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:16,450 four months later joined him in England. 569 00:40:16,450 --> 00:40:20,575 >> But who did you leave behind in your extended family? 570 00:40:20,575 --> 00:40:24,745 >> My maternal grandparents. 571 00:40:24,745 --> 00:40:28,820 My paternal grandparents had already passed away. 572 00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:33,460 My grandfather and my grandmother. 573 00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:40,600 And when we went on this trip to Frankfurt, 574 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,825 Germany in 2002, 575 00:40:44,825 --> 00:40:48,940 I showed my wife where they stood in 576 00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:50,800 a train station when the last 577 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,660 time I saw them, we waved at them. 578 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:04,630 My grandmother died a natural death in 1940 in Germany. 579 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:08,710 And my grandfather was 580 00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:12,220 walking on the streets of Frankfurt in 1942 581 00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:15,040 after the Wannsee Conference had been 582 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,620 passed and the final solution stage was in force. 583 00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:26,170 He was picked up and put in a cattle car and shipped to 584 00:41:26,170 --> 00:41:32,455 an extermination camp in Poland where he arrived DOA, 585 00:41:32,455 --> 00:41:36,490 dead on arrival because they put in 586 00:41:36,490 --> 00:41:41,110 a cattle car that's made for eight cattle or 40 people, 587 00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:48,070 they put 140-160 people in to murder him, 588 00:41:48,070 --> 00:41:53,420 to kill him, to exterminate him, in extermination camp. 589 00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:57,100 He was one of the 6 million and I 590 00:41:57,100 --> 00:42:00,470 lost many more relatives and friends. 591 00:42:01,170 --> 00:42:03,880 >> So what was life like in 592 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,405 England when you when you fled to England? 593 00:42:07,405 --> 00:42:13,610 >> In England, my mother and father lived in one room. 594 00:42:14,370 --> 00:42:18,250 My brother was able to get 595 00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:27,110 a job learning a trade and got room and board that way. 596 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,995 And I was in 597 00:42:29,995 --> 00:42:36,800 a refugee boarding school 598 00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:41,600 run by the B'nai B'rith Organization. 599 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,945 And went to public school from that, 600 00:42:46,945 --> 00:42:50,515 and got my religious school there. 601 00:42:50,515 --> 00:42:54,010 But public school, I went from there. 602 00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:58,730 A group we went together. 603 00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,770 And that was a very interesting experience 604 00:43:02,770 --> 00:43:07,090 because that gave me a taste of Orthodox Judaism. 605 00:43:07,090 --> 00:43:08,815 That's where I was really. 606 00:43:08,815 --> 00:43:12,400 And I was [inaudible] into that school. 607 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,880 Very interesting event in my life. 608 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,060 But we left there. 609 00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:23,680 We were able to leave there 610 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,970 one year later in April 1940 because our visa became 611 00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:31,030 valid and were able to come to 612 00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:35,545 America and started life from the beginning in America. 613 00:43:35,545 --> 00:43:39,775 >> And where did you immigrate to in the United States? 614 00:43:39,775 --> 00:43:42,670 >> When we first came to America we came across 615 00:43:42,670 --> 00:43:48,475 New York and we were 616 00:43:48,475 --> 00:43:51,715 greeted by a representative of 617 00:43:51,715 --> 00:43:57,505 the family that brought us over here, 618 00:43:57,505 --> 00:44:00,325 to begin with, my cousin from Birmingham, 619 00:44:00,325 --> 00:44:01,975 third cousin from Birmingham. 620 00:44:01,975 --> 00:44:04,270 By the way, it was a family that is still 621 00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:07,390 in Atlanta, Georgia, Heyman family. 622 00:44:07,390 --> 00:44:11,690 The the wife was my cousin. 623 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,600 Actually she married a Mervyn Sterne. 624 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,240 Neither one of them is living anymore. 625 00:44:28,890 --> 00:44:31,690 After we were a few days in 626 00:44:31,690 --> 00:44:35,170 New York in a hotel state somewhere, 627 00:44:35,170 --> 00:44:39,040 they paid for all of our expenses because 628 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,570 we couldn't take any money out of Germany with us. 629 00:44:43,570 --> 00:44:47,020 We left that for my grandparents, 630 00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:49,960 the little we had left. 631 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,300 We couldn't we took some of 632 00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,120 our furniture and things that were shipped right 633 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,795 when we first got our visa and stored in 634 00:44:58,795 --> 00:45:03,910 New Orleans in a warehouse by our sponsors. 635 00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:06,200 They took care of that. 636 00:45:07,830 --> 00:45:10,345 When we went to England, 637 00:45:10,345 --> 00:45:11,830 the only thing we could take with 638 00:45:11,830 --> 00:45:17,225 us was equivalent to about $10 each, 639 00:45:17,225 --> 00:45:20,890 one ring and one watch. 640 00:45:25,940 --> 00:45:32,010 We were children. I didn't have no rings, 641 00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:34,150 but I had a watch. 642 00:45:39,110 --> 00:45:44,505 So we came here to this country really with nothing. 643 00:45:44,505 --> 00:45:47,715 And our sponsors helped us get started. 644 00:45:47,715 --> 00:45:51,360 And my father just out of a concentration camp says, 645 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,970 we're going down south because they 646 00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:59,440 suggested come down to Alabama and learn how to farm. 647 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,900 Never been on a farm before, none of us. 648 00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:09,220 But we as a matter, 649 00:46:09,350 --> 00:46:14,340 they built a small house for us and we 650 00:46:14,340 --> 00:46:18,660 lived on this farm and we learned how to farm. 651 00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:22,740 Every morning at 5:30 when I was 13 years old, 652 00:46:22,740 --> 00:46:27,130 I was at the barn milking cows. 653 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,610 But I learned a great lesson and I went to school 654 00:46:32,610 --> 00:46:38,085 from this place outside of Demopolis Alabama. 655 00:46:38,085 --> 00:46:40,920 That's where we actually were coming. 656 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,325 This was outside of Maps on a farm. 657 00:46:44,325 --> 00:46:48,580 Went to school at Demopolis Alabama every morning 658 00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:52,835 and I learned my life lesson right there in America, 659 00:46:52,835 --> 00:46:54,500 my first life lesson. 660 00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:56,000 And somewhere or other, 661 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,905 they instilled me from what I needed to do. 662 00:46:59,905 --> 00:47:02,445 I was only 13 years old, 663 00:47:02,445 --> 00:47:07,290 but by milking in that barn and by going to 664 00:47:07,290 --> 00:47:10,020 a segregated school and 665 00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:12,420 noticing in the little town of Demopolis, 666 00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:16,350 Alabama, which had 5,000 population, 667 00:47:16,350 --> 00:47:20,370 3,000 African Americans and 2000 White. 668 00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:23,190 And in a barn where milk 669 00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:27,010 cows where all the employees were Black, 670 00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:34,240 they were actually one year out of slavery in 1940. 671 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:39,030 Slavery was abolished in 672 00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:45,310 1865 in America, the 14th Amendment. 673 00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:50,955 I made up my mind then 674 00:47:50,955 --> 00:47:55,275 it's important to help the underserved. 675 00:47:55,275 --> 00:47:58,620 Somewhere in other, was in my head. 676 00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:01,890 And my entire career in America was built 677 00:48:01,890 --> 00:48:05,560 through worked in that direction. 678 00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:12,570 We were on that farm, we stayed on it, 679 00:48:12,570 --> 00:48:17,190 later on my father 680 00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:21,210 got a job as a manager of another place in 681 00:48:21,210 --> 00:48:24,160 Uniontown Alabama 682 00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:32,775 and then later on, 683 00:48:32,775 --> 00:48:35,580 they moved to Demopolis, Alabama. 684 00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:39,420 >> How did the people receive you and your family? 685 00:48:39,420 --> 00:48:41,340 How did the people in Alabama 686 00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:44,160 receive you and your family at that time? 687 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:51,940 >> Well, we were accepted by certain people, 688 00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:56,865 we knew they had a little congregation in Demopolis, 689 00:48:56,865 --> 00:49:00,480 and we met some people there, 690 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,245 we went there to pray. 691 00:49:04,245 --> 00:49:07,845 But it was not easy. 692 00:49:07,845 --> 00:49:09,720 We were outsiders. 693 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:13,260 We had to learn how to farm because we 694 00:49:13,260 --> 00:49:17,265 were we moved to another place and had our own farm, 695 00:49:17,265 --> 00:49:20,850 rented a farm and did our own farming. 696 00:49:20,850 --> 00:49:23,370 And that was really we came out of it. 697 00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:26,070 My mother had chickens, 698 00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:27,630 she took care of the chickens. 699 00:49:27,630 --> 00:49:31,710 My brother and I and my father the cows, 700 00:49:31,710 --> 00:49:37,510 and I was in charge of the calves. 701 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,705 And from there, we went to school every day. 702 00:49:42,705 --> 00:49:45,810 I had a walk a mile and a half to 703 00:49:45,810 --> 00:49:49,155 get to the place where the school bus picked you up. 704 00:49:49,155 --> 00:49:52,900 And went to school and in 705 00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:55,260 the Demopolis and I 706 00:49:55,260 --> 00:49:58,810 went all the way through high school there. I graduated. 707 00:49:59,750 --> 00:50:02,400 And thank God, I went to 708 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:08,520 my 50th anniversary of my graduation and it was 709 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,250 now totally integrated to school in 710 00:50:11,250 --> 00:50:17,325 a new building and everything had changed. Thank God. 711 00:50:17,325 --> 00:50:21,370 >> So when did you join the military? 712 00:50:21,410 --> 00:50:31,660 >> I volunteered for early induction. 713 00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:37,845 You couldn't be drafted until you were 18 years old. 714 00:50:37,845 --> 00:50:39,975 That was a rule then. 715 00:50:39,975 --> 00:50:42,540 And I joined for early induction, 716 00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,910 so on the day I was 18, 717 00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:53,900 I was inducted into the military and I actually became 718 00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:56,330 a citizen afterwards in 719 00:50:56,330 --> 00:50:59,310 the military and in 720 00:50:59,310 --> 00:51:02,580 a place outside of Jacksonville, Florida. 721 00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:08,290 I was sworn as an American citizen. 722 00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:14,385 I stayed in the military to 723 00:51:14,385 --> 00:51:18,000 basic training and I didn't choose it, 724 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,010 but they sent me to Germany to 725 00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:25,890 join five and I was 726 00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:29,830 back in Germany five years after I had left. 727 00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:33,600 I arrived in Le Havre, 728 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,900 France to join my assignment, 729 00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:40,770 which was a 78th infantry division and go to 730 00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:45,030 the front lines to be taken to the front lines, 731 00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:47,100 of course, another group of 732 00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:51,520 people and it was in a camp outside of Le Havre. 733 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,745 And two days after I arrived there, 734 00:51:56,745 --> 00:51:59,260 the war was over. 735 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,490 Everybody cheered and I cried. 736 00:52:05,490 --> 00:52:14,040 Mistake. Everybody was cheering and I cried, 737 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,380 because I couldn't fight the Nazis, 738 00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:23,130 and I did so much damage 739 00:52:23,130 --> 00:52:26,620 to my family and my friends and my people. 740 00:52:28,580 --> 00:52:31,410 But I want to tell you something, 741 00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:36,990 when I went back in 2003 as a guest to 742 00:52:36,990 --> 00:52:39,450 city and I've been back several times before 743 00:52:39,450 --> 00:52:43,260 that on business and several other trips. 744 00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:47,655 But 2003, I wrote an article in 745 00:52:47,655 --> 00:52:55,350 a local paper after I came back and in it, 746 00:52:55,350 --> 00:52:58,470 I said, Germany has changed because I 747 00:52:58,470 --> 00:53:04,005 spoke like I'm speaking to you here right now, 748 00:53:04,005 --> 00:53:08,410 I spoke to a group of people, 749 00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:12,540 to schools in Germany, 750 00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:14,985 where I speak now to schools here. 751 00:53:14,985 --> 00:53:19,470 Schools in Germany and I saw that young people was 752 00:53:19,470 --> 00:53:21,630 totally changed from the ones I 753 00:53:21,630 --> 00:53:25,120 left who beat me up on the streets. 754 00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:31,920 And I wrote an article that says, Germany has changed. 755 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,405 That's what the thing we have noticed mostly, I noticed. 756 00:53:36,405 --> 00:53:46,360 And I'm taking the word of hate, 757 00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:50,310 revenge and retaliation, 758 00:53:50,310 --> 00:53:53,620 three words out of my vocabulary. 759 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,630 There was a lot of my 760 00:54:00,630 --> 00:54:03,720 fellow Holocaust survivors who speak at 761 00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:05,925 the Bremen and some of them speak here and 762 00:54:05,925 --> 00:54:08,880 one of them was just interviewed here recently, 763 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,410 who didn't like that, 764 00:54:10,410 --> 00:54:12,525 who still don't like it. 765 00:54:12,525 --> 00:54:16,230 That's one of them, don't speak to 766 00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:20,470 me anymore after that article came out. 767 00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:25,245 I see him often, but I shake his hand, 768 00:54:25,245 --> 00:54:29,730 but he doesn't look at me but he shakes 769 00:54:29,730 --> 00:54:34,930 my hand but doesn't speak to me anymore. 770 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,660 Personally, I have 771 00:54:39,660 --> 00:54:47,160 a very strong belief that hate is the cause of 772 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,110 these problems and still causes 773 00:54:49,110 --> 00:54:51,390 the problems and discriminate 774 00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:57,850 and the other two items that I mentioned. 775 00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:04,700 All need to be removed. 776 00:55:04,700 --> 00:55:08,480 We need to find ways to make this a better world. 777 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,680 Because that's how I end up all my presentations 778 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,795 to young people and tell them over and over again, 779 00:55:16,795 --> 00:55:21,130 we have a common obligation, all of us. 780 00:55:22,490 --> 00:55:28,950 It's not only written in the Jewish Torah Bible, 781 00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:31,455 but it's also in the Christian Bible, 782 00:55:31,455 --> 00:55:35,280 as well even in the Muslim Quran. 783 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,990 We have a common obligation to make this a better 784 00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:42,210 world for the privilege of living on 785 00:55:42,210 --> 00:55:45,580 this Earth and living in this world. 786 00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:50,200 We got to work at it to do that. 787 00:55:50,210 --> 00:55:56,250 We got to make things happen to make this a better world. 788 00:55:56,250 --> 00:55:59,130 We got to serve the underserved. 789 00:55:59,130 --> 00:56:01,125 We got to bring them up, 790 00:56:01,125 --> 00:56:03,610 we got to educate. 791 00:56:04,460 --> 00:56:08,805 This is the lessons of the Holocaust. 792 00:56:08,805 --> 00:56:11,415 I believe in that. 793 00:56:11,415 --> 00:56:13,230 That is the lessons of 794 00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:14,970 the holocaust and that's the reason 795 00:56:14,970 --> 00:56:21,135 after 40 years speaking about 40 times a year, 796 00:56:21,135 --> 00:56:25,635 I still do most of that routine. 797 00:56:25,635 --> 00:56:30,210 And I'm sitting here right now for 798 00:56:30,210 --> 00:56:32,280 this interview because I 799 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,920 believe we have an obligation 800 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,480 to make this a better world, 801 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,710 and we got to work at it.